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| Thread: The bottom of everything |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 03:57 PM |
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You're hiding the nature of perfection under transcendentalism and subjective perception. At a conceivable objective level, two perfect things (for something - a purpose) would be exactly the same with no gradient of comparison between them.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 04:38 PM |
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Yeah. Perfect means, that no aspect of it could be better - because if some could it's not perfect, obviously.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 02, 2015 04:58 PM |
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Okay, that's true. If X is perfect for Y in a utilitarian sense, that means it fits without any flaw. So, perfection in function can be quantifiable and concrete. What I'm talking about is things like, a perfect song, a perfect moment, a perfect relationship etc. These are actually not perfect in the sense that they are conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type:a perfect sphere but rather perfect as in excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement. Two songs that can not replace each other can be perfect as in beyond need of any improvement but one can give you that feeling of perfection more. And so, if your wife writes a wedding wow such as "you were perfect and now you're even more perfect" I wouldnt suggest correcting her about that.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 05:52 PM |
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I enjoyed 4 far more than 5
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 08:01 PM |
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artu said:
Okay, that's true. If X is perfect for Y in a utilitarian sense, that means it fits without any flaw. So, perfection in function can be quantifiable and concrete. What I'm talking about is things like, a perfect song, a perfect moment, a perfect relationship etc. These are actually not perfect in the sense that they are conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type:a perfect sphere but rather perfect as in excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement. Two songs that can not replace each other can be perfect as in beyond need of any improvement but one can give you that feeling of perfection more. And so, if your wife writes a wedding wow such as "you were perfect and now you're even more perfect" I wouldnt suggest correcting her about that.
You seem to relate mote to the transient character of things. Something may be perfect in a given situation or context, but that may change, making something else perfect, but not changing the fact that this other thing WAS perfect at one time.
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 08:44 PM |
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@JJ & artu
I thought 'perfect' in everyday languge rarely really meant perfect in the purely mathematical sense (the word would be almost useless outside of mathematics otherwise). Based on my observation, 'perfect' tends to really just mean 'practically perfect' (as in, the imperfections are negligible) and 'more perfect' means 'closer to true perfection' or 'practically perfect with a smaller error tolerance'. Whenever you say something is perfect, you can always "zoom in" on it and discover that it actually isn't. Like if you draw a graph of exp(-x), and observe when it reaches zero. Of course it never does, but in practical applications you need to have some tolerance and at some point say, "ok now we reached our target". Perfection is similar (in the real world).
And even if you disagree with this (which I guess you might if you are more mathematicians/linguists than engineers), you still must have understood what I meant (yes, I do think it is fine to slightly bend the meanings of words and use them creatively as long as everyone understands what is meant), so starting this offtopic discussion over a small error made by a non-native English speaker seems really... less perfect .
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 02, 2015 08:44 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:47, 02 Mar 2015.
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@JJ
Well, I'd rather call it transcendant rather than transient but yes, kind of. Because unless we are talking about some strictly functional thing (like a perfectly matching puzzle piece), the only times things can be identified as perfect are the times that you are in some state of awe. Other than that, no matter what criteria you had determined to decide something's perfection, when you look closer (maybe, from a distance is the more suiting expression), you will see flaws, or at least broader possibilities. Even the best book, the best film, the best game, the best reasturant, the best whatever... will have some degree of flaws. It's not a bad thing, that doesn't mean you'll love it less but without the awe, you will no longer experience it as something that can not be improved. Anything can be improved.
@Nitramar
I wrote this before your last post but yes, we're not so far away. Perfect in everyday language is very often a figure of speech.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 02, 2015 08:57 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:58, 02 Mar 2015.
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You infidels, what is this philosophical jabber?!  The natural evolution of this thread is toward an Internet brawl where the supremacy of Heroes III is proven beyond reasonable doubt once again. Instead your are turning it into a scholastic waste of hosting space so you can scratch your egos. Get out of here and praise Baa until he forgives you!
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 02, 2015 09:03 PM |
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But we've already proven the supremacy of Heroes 3. Even the ritual of trash-talking Heroes 6 is fulfilled, if I remember correctly.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 09:09 PM |
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I'm starting to think there might be some kind of correlation between participating in offtopic meta-discussions and prefering H3 over H5.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 09:10 PM |
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I can never get past the fact that this thread, based on the title, wasn't started by XeroX.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 02, 2015 09:11 PM |
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 02, 2015 09:16 PM |
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I'm not really sure what the topic is. I never played Heroes 5, but I played Heroes 2 with a friend and we had some fun. Then came Heroes 3, I got it, we played it, and I didn't like it.. my friend wanted to stick with it rather than go back to Heroes 2, so we kept at it, and I got used to it. Didn't take long before I preferred Heroes 3 to Heroes 2.
Then Heroes 4 came out, I got it, played it with another friend who I'd played heroes 3 with. I didn't like Heroes 4, wanted to go back to Heroes 3, but he liked 4 better and... same story as before. Though I don't prefer Heroes 4 over Heroes 3 (or vice verse), because both games offers me something different I like.
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Living time backwards
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 02, 2015 09:16 PM |
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The discussion is still civil and mostly rational arguments have been used so far -> nothing is proven yet.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted March 02, 2015 09:21 PM |
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Zenofex said:
The discussion is still civil and mostly rational arguments have been used so far -> nothing is proven yet.
Are you saying rational arguments prove nothing?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 02, 2015 09:26 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:27, 02 Mar 2015.
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OhforfSake said:
I'm not really sure what the topic is.
Basically, original poster thinks H5 is treated unfair and blames the hype/legacy of H3 for it and we all disagree with him.
Come to think of it, most new players who play those would be probably introduced to them around the same time after all these years, not chronologically. And they still mostly stick to H3. (There... here's your proof Zenofex.)
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 02, 2015 09:45 PM |
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Beside, I find suspicious Heroes 5 fans registering at HC in 2015 then condescendingly questioning those who like H3, which in majority are people registered during H3 golden age, thus basically they have a certain age, see mentally independent; yet not yet senile.
Ditto.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 01:33 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 01:36, 03 Mar 2015.
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Minion said:
I can never get past the fact that this thread, based on the title, wasn't started by XeroX.
I thought so too but then I realized that maybe I should stick to the wastelands instead of defiling these lands.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 03, 2015 02:25 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 02:32, 03 Mar 2015.
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I also agree with mvass's earlier observation about H5 feeling slow, which was a side-effect of the transition to 3D. In addition to the protracted animations, there was also all the constant zooming and screen rotating to find things. It all ended up being distracting and detracted from the basic HoMM experience, and yes it took longer to accomplish anything. Maps also felt smaller and less interesting.
In addition, the lack of good user made maps didn't help with H5's longevity, although that was arguably a symptom of the above-mentioned problem rather than a fundamental problem of H5.
Strangely enough, JJ, the 3D didn't bother me as much on the battlefield. Although I, too, did not care for squares. Again it made the battlefield feel a lot smaller. There's a good reason most strategy games employ hexagons.
H5 had a lot going for it. The faction differentiation and creature lineups were well-realized. It could have been a real return to the HoMM greatness, but IMO the choice to go 3D doomed it from the start.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 03, 2015 03:34 AM |
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If we use our statistics:
celestialheavens.com
H3: All the search returned 462 results
H4: All the search returned 258 results
H5: All the search returned 153 results
H6: All the search returned 4 results
heroesportal.net
H3: Restoration of Earthia 429 maps
H3: Armaggedon's Blade 235 maps
H3: The Shadow of Death 1210 maps
H3: In the Wake of Gods 509 maps
H3: Horn of the Abyss 15 maps
H4: (standard) 231 maps
H4: The Gathering Storm 93 maps
H4: Winds of War 388 maps
H4: Equiliblis 6 maps
H5: (standard) 27 maps
H5: Hammers of Fate 47 maps
H5: Tribes of the East 42 maps
H6: (standard) 42 maps
H6: Shades of Darkness 11 maps
maps4heroes.com
H3: All 1214 maps
H4: All 629 maps
H5: All 714 maps
H6: All 70 maps
total
H3 has 4074 maps
H4 has 1605 maps
H5 has 983 maps
H6 has 127 maps
Why? We can say facts: the player's age, for example, I play still Heroes, others stopped. Heroes is old fashion as old Doom. Another H4 Winds of War wasn't in Europe. New players aren't buyed H4 Gathering Strom. They added on maps4heroes, for example. They aren't added to "Better the level of place".
What about me?
I made a one map over the years and also played & tested for years before to sending to the Heroes sites. And I still see a lot of empty blanks, I want to develop yet! I can't play many more. Not enough! Also game board is 2D world, UbiSoft should do 2D and 3D, we choose 2D, new players play in 3D choosing. Others see Heroes is received a huge favorite! Maybe! Since we play only H3 and H4. Port to In the Wake of Gods  Sandro and Earth  also Sharpshooters or to full monsters like Evil Sorceress, Frenzied Gnashers in map of the world.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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