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azalen
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted April 29, 2017 07:41 PM |
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Skeggy said:
Perhaps you should try to play with Xerxon with configuration like this:
expert leadership, prayer, last stand
expert attack with battle frenzy, retribution and power of speed
expert defense with vitality, stand your ground and power of stone (or protection from magic attacks perhaps)
expert necromancy with cold steel, chilling bones and banshee howl (chilling bones especially helpful with phantom forces)
expert combat with martial arts, chain attack and stunning strike
expert enlightenment and expert dark
Only comparison of one custom build with other can give accurate perception of enormous dynamism in battles and Heroes builds that MMH 5.5 gives.
That is why new duel presets are needed.
Why all editors crashes when I try to create new duel presets?
All of them, MMH55_Editor_64.exe, MMH55_Editor.exe, H5_MapEditor.exe crashes.
I bypassed the problem with creating specific mini maps with specific supplies for rapid hero leveling, but that is not quite the same thing.
An interesting build. I'll check it out.
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vulcancolak
Famous Hero
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posted April 30, 2017 12:16 AM |
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It is not about mod actually. Ranged units and casters always had advantage. The problem could be the maps. For example me and my friends playing on custom maps (i mean original maps edited my me) because i am placing creatures manually.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted April 30, 2017 02:08 PM |
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I have been thinking about this issue, but i don't think lowering the dmg formula to 0.3 or 0.25 is really a good way to deal with shooter dominance. In early game this will actually cause low level shooters to do more damage to higher tier creatures.
Further lowering the formula will primarily make low tiers stronger vs higher tiers.
If you really want shooters to be weaker you simply have to lower the damage of all shooters across all factions by a similar %. This basically means you consider having the ability 'shooter' takes up a larger part of the creatures power rating and thereby justify a stat nerf.
This is basically what the designers of King's Bounty: The Legend did.
This game has the same dmg formula and same functionality of Attack and Defense, but generally dmg values are much lower and for range attacker they are even more low.
Check for example stats of Swordsman and Bowman:
------------- Cost|Lvl|Ldrs | Damage |
| Swordsman | 70 | 2 | 35 | 4-5 Phys. |
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| Att | Def | DU | In | Spd | HP | Crit |
| 10 | 16 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 32 | 8 |
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| Phys:20 | Poison:0 | Magic:0 | Fire:0 |
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---------- Cost |Lvl|Ldrs | Damage |
| Bowman | 100 | 2 | 50 | 3-4 Physical|
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| Att | Def | DU | In | Spd | HP | Crit |
| 16 | 10 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 28 | 10 |
-----------------------------------------
| Phys:0 | Poison:0 | Magic:0 | Fire:0 |
-----------------------------------------
Also the KB Archmage would be a tier 6 creature in H5 except damage is far lower:
------------ Cost |Lvl|Ldrs | Damage |
| Archmage | 900 | 4 | 200 | 5-7 Mag/Ph|
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| Att | Def | DU | In | Spd | HP | Crit |
| 20 | 24 | 4 | 5 | 2 | 90 | 7 |
-----------------------------------------
| Phys:0 | Poison:0 | Magic:50 | Fire:0 |
-----------------------------------------
____________
MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 30, 2017 04:42 PM |
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magnomagus, do you also experience editor crashes when you try to create new duel presets?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted April 30, 2017 06:00 PM |
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I never make duel presets, but I believe you. I guess they can only be remade by editing the .xdb files with a text editor.
If by the way anyone is interested in creating a balanced new set of them I'm willing to implement them in the mod.
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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 30, 2017 06:44 PM |
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I suppose it would be helpful if you could widely reveal all necessary xdb files that needs to be changed.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted April 30, 2017 09:18 PM |
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strigvir
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 01, 2017 01:33 AM |
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magnomagus said:
Also the KB Archmage would be a tier 6 creature in H5 except damage is far lower:
------------ Cost |Lvl|Ldrs | Damage |
| Archmage | 900 | 4 | 200 | 5-7 Mag/Ph|
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| Att | Def | DU | In | Spd | HP | Crit |
| 20 | 24 | 4 | 5 | 2 | 90 | 7 |
-----------------------------------------
| Phys:0 | Poison:0 | Magic:50 | Fire:0 |
-----------------------------------------
Kinda misleading comparison, since Archmage is more of a utility unit. Shamans for example have double of archmage damage and are equivalent of homm5 tier 6 units too.
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azalen
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted May 01, 2017 03:10 AM |
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magnomagus said:
I have been thinking about this issue, but i don't think lowering the dmg formula to 0.3 or 0.25 is really a good way to deal with shooter dominance. In early game this will actually cause low level shooters to do more damage to higher tier creatures.
Further lowering the formula will primarily make low tiers stronger vs higher tiers.
One of the issues is that missile units seem to have higher initiative on average than walkers.
An alternative to tweaking damage values would be lowering initiative. For example, you recently nerfed gremlin initiative a while ago by 1 point, which was a very necessary change considering artificer abuse and Havez. Gremlin Saboteurs still have 12 init, which, I believe is still the highest of all missile units.
Simply nerfing some of the worst offenders initiative would do a lot. For example, I always thought Arcane Archers should have 10 initiative instead of 11, like Master Hunters. You pretty much always take Arcanes over Master Hunters because 11 initiative allows Arcanes to destroy opposing missile units on the ATB bar. Putting them to 10 would force Arcanes to "take their chances" on the ATB like most other missile units.
Gorshak Centaurs are the other offenders, as they take advantage of Gorshak's hero special, Warlord Commanding Presence, and Order of the Chief/Warlord Command Other to fire at an unhealthy rate. This makes the barbarian faction a 'Gorshak Barbarian' and 'Everyone Else'.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 01, 2017 09:05 AM |
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@Azaelan you speak the truth but have in mind that nerfing archers initiative can be very dangerous for the game. It can render them useless as melees will get to them very fast and after that there is no escape. Lowering initiative makes actions more expensive and people usually cut on mobility when it comes to range units.
Regarding Stronghold Centaurs early initiative is their only edge as the whole faction is just melee units and they suffer a great deal of casualties.
I would prefer lowering the overall archer damage but keeping their mobility and action rate.
Note: Btw I would like to see some gatling gun NCF archer with 1 damage and 20 initiative for example. Or instead of high initiative may be three shot.
____________
Join our official discord channel | NCF Utility Beta
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 01, 2017 10:27 AM |
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nerfing dmg and nerfing initiative is actually the same thing.
In real time games dmg is defined by DPS, dmg per hit & frequency of hitting.
In Homm DPS is more like DPT, damage per turn. So if I nerf arcane archers to 10 ini I should increase their damage by 10%. So that means 50% of the time they will still shoot before the shooters that have 10 ini, but now they will do it with more damage. Not much different.
The question if shooters are too dominant in combat in general is very different from the question whether specific units or factions are OP.
The first question can only be fixed by nerfing all shooters similarly.
People often play the game and notice a strength of the faction they are playing and then call it OP, but all other factions also have a strength that was probably called OP by someone else before. If everybody has an OP feature then maybe nobody is OP.
Anyway, I'm considering nerfing gorshak from 0.5% to 0.33%.
____________
MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 01, 2017 11:59 AM |
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I believe I did not explain myself good enough.
When it comes to damage anyway will do (initiative or damage stat increase/decrease).
But what I am talking about is archers maneuverability.
Here is an example: Ranged unit with 10 damage and 10 init.
this is 10 damage per turn and 1 action per turn.
for 2 turns this unit can do 2 actions - shoot or/and move.
Another variation: 15 init and 5 damage. this is again 10 damage per turn but 1.5 actions per turn. This means that this unit can perform 3 actions for 2 turns.
It may not seem quite different (due to the same damage output) but imagine "enemy melee unit blocks archer" situation. The best way to utilize archers will be to move them away with the first action and shoot with the second one. The lower the ranged unit initiative the meaningless it becomes to perform this evasive maneuver as the melee unit will have higher initiative and will block the archer again before it can shoot.
____________
Join our official discord channel | NCF Utility Beta
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azalen
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted May 01, 2017 10:35 PM |
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magnomagus said:
Anyway, I'm considering nerfing gorshak from 0.5% to 0.33%.
I don't think Gorshack is OP... he merely makes a weak faction competitive (kinda like Deleb with Inferno in the old days). Centaurs going first on the ATB bar vs opposing ranged units thanks to blood rage lvl 2 and Warlord init bonus is the barbarian's primary faction strength in my opinion.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 02, 2017 06:09 PM |
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Stronghold is not a weak faction and the deleb comparison is also wrong.
centaurs already have most of their utility without the warlords and gorshak. Deleb filled a deficiency early game which gorshak can impossibly mimic since his special needs to develop and barely does anything early game.
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sjors86
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 03, 2017 08:47 AM |
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Problems generating map and team matchup
I installed homm 5.5 a yesterday and played hotseat with a friend.
We had some problems generating a new map, I used the map editor to create a new 6P-Ultima-Hu-(HPASND). After generating it is automatically saved?
Just to be sure I saved it another time as "test", when starting a multiplayer game I can't find test, I do find the original generated map though. I thought that could be, because of scripts, I started the mix.exe and enable hotseat/multiplayer, but I couldn't save it, because it said data folder was missing or something.
We decided to just work with the original and when started the game, it asked us to form a team, we accidentally denied. We decided to start over and create a map with water this time. But after generating and starting the map, it never asked for teaming up again.
Anyone knows what we are doing wrong?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 03, 2017 12:33 PM |
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you can't find 'test' because you also need to rename it in map properties. also yes it is already saved, no need.
question did not work because you forgot to activate scripts the 2nd time?
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sjors86
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 03, 2017 03:50 PM |
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magnomagus said:
you can't find 'test' because you also need to rename it in map properties. also yes it is already saved, no need.
question did not work because you forgot to activate scripts the 2nd time?
I didn't active scripts second time, becasue the first time I tried that,I got the error with the data folder and besides that, everything seemed to work.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 03, 2017 05:14 PM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 03, 2017 05:26 PM |
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@dredknight: This method is not user friendly if it needs to be repeated every time but good to keep it for informational purpose. Also can you please change the line in your guide "and will guarantee you that it is compatible with the mod." to "and make it playable in LAN/Hotseat". This statement is confusing.
If mapmixer doesn't work for some reason it is easier to use reanimation patcher (shortcut in startmenu) to activate the scripts. For LAN and hotseat you MUST do this, otherwise game=broken.
____________
MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 03, 2017 05:40 PM |
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