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| Thread: H7: Salvaging the Broken Wreckage (of Magic Skills) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 29, 2015 10:11 PM |
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TDL said:
I do see reason in having 7 spell schools and their respective skills. But only if we eradicate randomness from the homm formula. Which in turn would most probably lead to further breakdown.
Precisely. It seems to me that the developers are going to down this path, and IMO, homm without randomness is not homm anymore.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 29, 2015 10:15 PM |
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted June 29, 2015 10:41 PM |
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You seem to be negligent about issues of balance. I do realize you have your aspirations and you firmly believe it might work, but i try to rely on past collective experience and it tells me that it is nigh impossible to strike a favourable compatibility ratio. People theorize about what would be most beneficial to the cause but they eithee have inadequate prior exposure to the multiple facets of the game or simply present their moderately selfish wishful thinking. In this case we cannot overlook the fundamentals of homm. Once we try to diverge,be it with innovations or simply trying to expand on them, more issues will arise.
You re welcome to prove me wrong though.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 29, 2015 10:49 PM |
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Why would anyone want to prove you or anyone else wrong. Even if we could - and I could, indeed - it would have no effect. It wouldn't gain anything, wouldn't change the game as it is.
So it's a useless discussion, because no matter the result, it won't change anything.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted June 29, 2015 11:06 PM |
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The point of the discussion is to challenge views, present ideas and have somewhat meaningful conversations. You saying this amounts to nothing is much like saying people who create their town proposals and game settings are putting in effort into moot ideas. Thing is, the result does not matter as banal as it sounds but the process is. You are welcome to stay away if you feel like there is no point in chatter.
By the way my past post addressed stevie's if by chance you failed to notice.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 29, 2015 11:18 PM |
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Elvin said:
H3 disagrees on that account.
Well I disagree on this account. In my optics, H3 exactly shows that you can't have several magic schools that essentially do the same without game being compromised. When such a design is chosen, there will inevitably be a gravitation towards repeating one choice, either for balance reasons, or simply out of habit. H3 obviously got balance horribly wrong - someone might be able to conceive a scenario where choosing Fire Magic over Earth Magic was favorable, but even so, in the vast majority of games, Earth Magic was a no-brainer. And even in the theoretical case where you would get balance perfectly right, then what's the point in having that many spell schools, if they basically cover the same ground?
H5 hit a good balance between forcing and luring you into taking different spell schools in different situations - both through things like spell and skill availability in your faction (which is what I call forcing), but also by offering schools that had vastly different effect, which might play to your needs or simply not match your capabilities in certain situations (Knight with Destructive Magic was obviously quite useless because you had abysmal Spellpower).
PS: And just for the record: My gripe with H3/H7 system is not that schools serve multiple purposes. I'm fine with that. Problem is that they all serve the same purposes. There's an important difference there.
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What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 29, 2015 11:19 PM |
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Stevie seems to disagree as well, it would seem.
Anyway, you are probably right. Thoughts are free, after all. So I opt to stay away, having said my piece.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 29, 2015 11:25 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 23:52, 29 Jun 2015.
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I subscribe under what JJ said. There is no "salvaging the broken wreckage of magic skills" of Heroes 7 as your thread name and op CLEARLY imply. If this was simply a theorycrafting exercise then you would've posted it in the appropriate board (Altar) and you would've had the appropriate audience. But as it is, the complaints of JJ and I are entirely justified.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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WhiteRider
Known Hero
death walks with me
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posted July 13, 2015 05:10 AM |
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In Neverwinter nights (D&D) you have 20+ different gods, 9 alignments and 3 types of spellcasters (divine/cleric/paladin, arcane/wizard/sorcerer and nature/druid/ranger spells). Some classes can take a spell or two from their deity to add to the spellbook but the system was pretty straight forward.
I don't understand why you have to glue the 7 dragon gods to 7 magic schools at all. I have played a lot M&M X and I really enjoyed it but I found in that game too that 7 magic schools were too much. At the end you just stick to certain spells and don't use others at all. On the other hand 4 schools as in M&M 9 were not enough and it was boring, the same goes for HMM V (elemental, dark, light and spirit / dark, light, destructive, summoning).
As Verriker said "lore must not be bound to some system, it is all about fantasy" and I was always "admired" the complete lack of fantasy in some well known people working as contractors for Ubi but at the same time too zealous to defend their opinion... No pun intended...
Any way, my favorite magic system is the one of Heroes 4. It is my favorite because of the really interesting and deep "philosophy" behind it. I.e. the way all magic schools were connected:
- Life is born from Nature and Order and is the opposite of Death and Chaos
- Nature is Chaos and Life at the same time and conquers Death and Order
- Chaos is the force of Nature and Death and always fights Life and Order
- Death can be found either in Order and Chaos and is the opposite of Life and Nature
- Order is always between Life and Death and never exists were Nature and Chaos dwell... and so on.
I always imagined the perfect magic system as a combination of these 5 elements plus alignment - i.e. Light circle, Spirit circle and Dark circle. Each circle contains all of the 5 schools but adds some additional flavor or spells to them.
Each magic schools contains spells that are common for all the three alignments but each alignment adds unique spells that spellcaster from other alignments can't learn. Light Life can have more blessing spells while Dark Life can have life draining spells, Spirit Life can have undead banishing spells etc.
All 4 elements (fire, earth, water, lightning) can be spread around the 5 schools and the same goes for all towns - we can have light/white/good human town, spirit/grey/neutral human town and dark/black/bad human town with one different creature per tier (all duchies can be spread around that scheme). Or we can have high/good elves, wood/neutral/spirit elves and dark/bad elves.
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