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| Thread: Heroes 4 Tips and Tricks |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Hadji020
Adventuring Hero
The Underestimated
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posted September 10, 2015 04:13 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
Hadji020 said:
Dropping units in favour of multiple (2 or sometimes even 3) stacks of the same unit... or a 3rd hero even if you like, tho I prefer 2 heroes per army.
Is it really profitable to have two or more heroes as main army? Cause I've been whatching a lot of videos where people just give combat to any kind of hero (I saw Halfdead turned in to a crusader...) and vaquish the entire map with no army.
Being a fan of necromancers I usually get much stronger armies with at least two heroes and hundreds or thousands of vampires but those guys in fact develop faster and I know from experience that a few weeks delay means total defeat if you're playing another human player.
Well you get 1 hero at the start of a map, don't know how you guys play when facing human players, but normally speaking this means you can buy your 2nd hero right at the start..
if youre playing homebrewed maps without a starting hero then you may have to reconsider your tactics. You could try leaving treasure chests for your 2nd hero to pick up after 1 week has past when you can acquire him or her so the 2nd hero can catch up a bit with the 1st hero.
3 heroes in 1 army seems overkill. But 2 heroes are certainly useful. Having 2 casters can be quite a boon early on and casters are bound to get the combat skill at some point while levelling up (if you dont encounter it elsewhere), which seems to be crucial when playing against human players from what I've read on these forums.
I should mention that the only humans Ive played are my best friend and 1 other friend to a lesser extent. We've put quite some time into H4 though. I'm better than he is now, having figured out all this stuff, as a result of him taking Order cheese all the time and kicking my ass repeatedly when we first got the game. I doubt they can measure up to the players here and I think I'd get an asswhooping as well.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 10, 2015 06:43 PM |
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Hadji020 said:
if youre playing homebrewed maps without a starting hero then you may have to reconsider your tactics...
2 heroes are certainly useful. Having 2 casters can be quite a boon early on and casters are bound to get the combat skill at some point while levelling up (if you dont encounter it elsewhere), which seems to be crucial when playing against human players from what I've read on these forums.
No man, the problem is not access to heroes, many of this guys imediatly buy a lord to take possession objects like mines and dwellings but they don't develop him. I even saw two combats where I believe they were deliberatly sacrifized to save creatures like halflings. They chose to use just one hero cause that way they don't divide bonus and experience. I'm not a big fan of this strategy cause of artifacts. Imagine you got the Boots of Travel and the Winged Sandals, while some can say I'm just being lazy not wanting to trade them before and after each combat I still feel I'm better served if I have a pair of feet for each pair of shoes... But I've always played with a more creature oriented aproach then the guys I saw.
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Hadji020
Adventuring Hero
The Underestimated
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posted September 10, 2015 07:54 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
No man, the problem is not access to heroes, many of this guys imediatly buy a lord to take possession objects like mines and dwellings but they don't develop him. I even saw two combats where I believe they were deliberatly sacrifized to save creatures like halflings. They chose to use just one hero cause that way they don't divide bonus and experience. I'm not a big fan of this strategy cause of artifacts. Imagine you got the Boots of Travel and the Winged Sandals, while some can say I'm just being lazy not wanting to trade them before and after each combat I still feel I'm better served if I have a pair of feet for each pair of shoes... But I've always played with a more creature oriented aproach then the guys I saw.
I see... I actually buy Lords too just for the extra income, if my faction has access to them.
You make a good point about the artifacts, all the more reason to have 2 heroes. Do you perhaps remember which video you watched?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 10, 2015 11:44 PM |
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Hadji020 said:
Do you perhaps remember which video you watched?
Of course.
Mostly Gamma Dragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcfihjB4jo
but some other too...
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Hadji020
Adventuring Hero
The Underestimated
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posted September 11, 2015 11:53 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
Hadji020 said:
Do you perhaps remember which video you watched?
Of course.
Mostly Gamma Dragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcfihjB4jo
but some other too...
Whoa nearly a 4 hour vid, but ill check it out nonetheless. Thanks
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted September 11, 2015 12:23 PM |
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I didn't know there are such long videos for H4.
Surely it's a good tip to watch them.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 11, 2015 06:15 PM |
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Elvin said:
Place imps close to angels, they will syphon their mana and give it to your devils  After 2-3 syphons your devils can summon a second ice demon stack.
Aren't you missing that crow that makes the creature spells cost less? With that I remember to even have Angels casting twice but not just from refilling with imps.
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Hadji020
Adventuring Hero
The Underestimated
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posted September 13, 2015 01:28 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
Elvin said:
Place imps close to angels, they will syphon their mana and give it to your devils After 2-3 syphons your devils can summon a second ice demon stack.
Aren't you missing that crow that makes the creature spells cost less? With that I remember to even have Angels casting twice but not just from refilling with imps.
Indeed, getting mana from imps alone takes too long. The crown or the mana flare spell is needed to have a realistic chance at a 2nd cast.
I watched the first map of that vid, cant recall if this campaign allows for hero carryovers, so that may be the reason for not developing his Lord. I dont really understand his choice for golems over mages, theyre good units.. but mages are vastly superior. Aside from that he plays really good, wastes little to none movementpoints.
Though I dont play with mobile guards, its too easy to nab resources like that.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 13, 2015 03:08 PM |
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Hadji020 said:
I dont play with mobile guards
Then you're losing half of the fun. Scouting becomes just a requirement for pathfinding and navigation, turns the creatures mapmaker placed to patroling certain regions static and useless and you can't trick monsters to move so you can take what they're guarding.
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Hadji020
Adventuring Hero
The Underestimated
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posted September 13, 2015 09:05 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
Hadji020 said:
I dont play with mobile guards
Then you're losing half of the fun. Scouting becomes just a requirement for pathfinding and navigation, turns the creatures mapmaker placed to patroling certain regions static and useless and you can't trick monsters to move so you can take what they're guarding.
Tricking them with my single lvl 1 unit, hehe.
imo only the bandit unit should be nabbing resources where another lvl 1 neutral army is at. But to each his own (opinion/preference)
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 02:13 AM |
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Hadji020 said:
imo only the bandit unit should be nabbing resources where another lvl 1 neutral army is at. But to each his own (opinion/preference)
You only have those if your playing for Chaos and that's bad enouch on his own. Reasonable starting units but very bad at higher levels.
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scythesong
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 04:52 PM |
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There is precedent for developing 2 heroes at the start, as long as their skills complement each other. The most obvious example is the Necromancer+General combo of the Death faction. Another example is the double druid combo (one of the core tactics, imo) of the Nature faction - rush Advanced Summoning (and leave it that way) on two druids, and voila, you have an army that auto-replenishes itself. Combined with summoning (the spell) and the Combat skill (so your druids can soak hits for your army) you have a setup that allows you to creep neutrals without ever needing to rely on reinforcements from home. I consider this a critical strat because of the way the Nature faction is set up - it's one of the factions puts more emphasis on using heroes as a core units (in contrast to other factions like say, Life, where heroes mostly just complement your armies by providing buffs/casting spells occasionally).
Nature dwellings also tend to have above average resource requirements, and because it lacks access to Order lords it helps if you don't have to to buy units constantly so you can trade all that extra cash for the resources you need.
Developing 3 heroes is a different strat with its own pros/cons, and as far as my own experience goes, only works on heroes that are designed to be core units, like the Chaos sorcerer or the Order wizard. The Chaos sorcerer, in particular, can hit harder than an entire early game army as early as level 2 (IF you get Fire Bolt). So why not have 2? Why not have three, as long as you get the third one after a week? If all three of them ever get the Lightning Bolt spell then its GG unless your opponent is waaaaayyyy over on the other side of map, with a lot of water between you for good measure.
Three sorcerers with Lightning Bolt is easily one of the most OP setups in early game.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 06:14 PM |
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scythesong said:
Three sorcerers with Lightning Bolt is easily one of the most OP setups in early game.
So, in your opinion the best buy for Chaos would be Sorcerers and not Thieves?
Strange cause I found tips to only buy thieves and then evolve them to Rangers with Life and Nature magic, to then attack the stacks u sucked experience before.
I almost never use Chaos as starting town and even when I do I will more frequently develop Necromancers and Death Knights to go for vampires then buy thieves after 3 or 4 weeks of game, so I have no opinion on this.
scythesong said:
Developing 3 heroes is a different strat with its own pros/cons
Oh, this is a very long story. I almost never used that strat until one day I've created an object I called the "Eternal Battle", specially for Death. It would constantly provoke fights with different kinds of living neutral armies, based on the level of the most powerfull hero in the army.
With progresses tested up to level 55, the harder the battles the more three magic skilled heroes would outstand. And I am talking about fighting thousands of megadragons. Of course, since progress was messured in levels of heroes and not number of creatures raised, the less experince each hero gets, the stronger the army becomes so it was a biased observation but it looked to me that if one can get all the experience he wants, his best army will probably be composed mostly of heroes.
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scythesong
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 04:42 AM |
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Quote:
So, in your opinion the best buy for Chaos would be Sorcerers and not Thieves?
Strange cause I found tips to only buy thieves and then evolve them to Rangers with Life and Nature magic, to then attack the stacks u sucked experience before.
I almost never use Chaos as starting town and even when I do I will more frequently develop Necromancers and Death Knights to go for vampires then buy thieves after 3 or 4 weeks of game, so I have no opinion on this.
You can just test this for early game (for experimentation's sake, make sure your mage guild starts with Firebolt).
Start with a Sorcerer, hire a second Sorcerer, kill neutrals, hire a third Sorcerer at the end of the week, focus on Chaos Magic (skip Sorcery until after you get Grandmaster Chaos Magic) and give them Combat->Grandmaster Combat (skip melee/range/resistance until you run out of stuff to level). Bring medusas early on if you're having problems creeping. Give them immortality potions when you have the cash.
With some luck your sorcerers should be strong enough to tackle entire armies on their own in a few weeks.
Whether you get a Thief or a Sorcerer is up to you. The game gives you that choice. Personally I don't see much point in using Thieves for Stealth unless I'm fighting extremely large stacks of low level creatures or a human player. You get the same total XP for sneaking past and then killing creatures as simply killing them (because that's how stealth XP works). So if you can simply kill the creatures when you meet them... why go to the trouble of trying to sneak past them and then coming back later?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 01, 2015 01:12 PM |
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scythesong said:
Whether you get a Thief or a Sorcerer is up to you. The game gives you that choice.
That depends entirely on mapmaker decisions, u can give him a specific hero, a random sorcerer/thief or a random chaos hero.
scythesong said:
You get the same total XP for sneaking past and then killing creatures as simply killing them (because that's how stealth XP works). So if you can simply kill the creatures when you meet them... why go to the trouble of trying to sneak past them and then coming back later?
Of course, if you can kill them first time you pass them that is more efficient. Only, if you are focusing on stealth until max (as you should for this to work) you will be able to gain a lot of experience from guards you can't kill first time you meet them but will after getting GrandMaster Stealth and start focusing on Combat and Nature/Life skills. That's why u may have advantage in returning over your feet from time to time just to make another fight, when it happens you're close enouch not to waste that many movement points.
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BrennusWhiskey
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
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posted October 01, 2015 07:30 PM |
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Hi,
I think that the different forum should be made for online players because sometimes when I read "tips" for players I just can only laugh how stupid they are
But guys - with PC you can use your every strange tactic and you will win
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 12:47 PM |
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@BrennusWhiskey How about instead of just beeing arrogant you share some of your wisdom? Or are you affraid to present your tactics to pier scrutiny?
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BrennusWhiskey
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
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posted October 02, 2015 05:14 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
@BrennusWhiskey How about instead of just beeing arrogant you share some of your wisdom? Or are you affraid to present your tactics to pier scrutiny?
I am sharing all my knowledge on the battlefield almost every day
Practice makes perfect! (in Russian saying "practice f*ck every theory") ))
Your question is like to ask chess master "how you win your games and tell us all best moves".
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 02, 2015 07:58 PM |
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BrennusWhiskey said:
Your question is like to ask chess master "how you win your games and tell us all best moves".
Well, I believe one can find thousands of books about chess and for sure there is an entire section dedicated to tricks and strategies for Heroes I to III in this forum and people seam to find them very usefull, so your argument seams follish.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 02, 2015 09:16 PM |
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Gee, this Brennus-bloke needs a tip himself. Hiring an additional hero to carry his ego around the map.
This tip is not for normal players though.
****
Bloodsucker, how often you use those potions we get around the map? I mean, in many different maps, holistically speaking that is? And how much use you convey to them, if addressing this issue to other ('normal and naïve') players such as myself?
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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