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| Thread: Paragon skill OP |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 01:47 AM |
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Paragon skill OP
Paragon is too powerful. You start with a hero with paragon and 1 direct damage spell, you creep a lot of the map and lvl up ; once you finally die, you respawn at your base and you can hire all heroes with economy and lvl them up! You can hire also a good hero, lvl him up and fight with him instead.
Just keep all your heroes with economy in a pen, like cash cows, and milk them every day. MoooOOOOooooo
Heck, on any map other than super small, it's better to take a magic hero with paragon, lvl him up and then lvl up your own might hero and switch to your might hero rather than play a might hero since the start.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 01:59 AM |
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What hero are you using? And which difficulty?
The number of units to creep on the map is insane though. I gained 4 levels from a simple fight one time. There's too much exp gain even without the paragon skill.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 02:09 AM |
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The paragon hero trick doesn't work as well on heroic difficulty. But anything else, it's simply the way to go. I would still do it on a huge map where I know another player can't reach me quickly. Yeah, sure you gain lvls fast. But still, when I finally switch heroes, I can park him next to my main base and every week, I check if a hero with economy can be hired. And they get their economy instantly filled up cuz of paragon hero.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 20, 2015 06:52 AM |
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Edited by natalka at 07:18, 20 Oct 2015.
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Mentor is a no brainer for BAN in multiplayer imo.
I am glad someone else thinks too that experience gain is too much. Ravel has a mod ready for my maps for that but I am sure it works on any map.
Let`s start a discussion of a substitute for mentor. We can mod a new skill 
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syliber
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 20, 2015 09:58 AM |
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good skill
H7 attack, defence skill bad.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 20, 2015 10:41 AM |
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Edited by malax83 at 10:46, 20 Oct 2015.
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i copy / paste my opinion on Paragorn :
Paragorn
* Figther : +2 (+1) Might +2 (+1) Defence
* Dragon Blood : +2 (+1) Magic +2 (+1) Spirit
* Enligthened Leader : Governor, All friendly heroes in this town's area of control gain +30% (+20%) more experience.
* Mentor : Raises the experience points of other friendly heroes to 25% of the hero's experience points and teaches them all spells the hero knows, if they have the required skills when they meet.
* Master of Magic : Spells for which the hero has at least the respective Novice rank are cast with Master rank.
+ The two last abilities are interessant but there s no way to balance them properly. Mentor should be applied with the first hero who met him. Master of Magic could be applied only to one school.
- Overall skill a way too OP
- Bonus are too strong.
PS : Do master of magic really allow you to cast all spells with their enhanced version (as a master magic spell) ? or is there anything else ?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 20, 2015 11:06 AM |
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Malax, your information is (at least partially) outdated. Mentor only raises it up to 15% in the current version of the game, for instance.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 20, 2015 11:47 AM |
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Whatever the bonus MENTOR is OP because now we have governor heroes. I will mod it 100 % on my maps. No mentor there sorry. We can think of substitute here.
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hermes
Famous Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 12:43 PM |
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Natalka, what is so op about mentor? You are wasting a skill point on it, and each castle can only have one governor so I don't see a problem .. A hero with paragon skill usually misses out on some others more offensive option, and while in long term its ok but on small maps it's not..
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 20, 2015 03:06 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 15:46, 20 Oct 2015.
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It is OP because of number of things
- hit and run tactics with suicide heroes
- harassing opponent easily
- have multiple heroes with Estates & Alchemist & Merchant and economy alone giving gold
If that is not enough here comes more:
I can build two buildings in the same town than when I need to recruit creatures I will drag other hero to recruit them. On day 7 after building I change to recruiter hero so I have 25% more cores.
All heroes with maxed explorer tree.
A lot of bang for one buck.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 03:54 PM |
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I think a solution could reside on Mentoring mod for Heroes III permises.
It doesn't matter if it is a 15% or a 25% bonus, it'll always be OP BUT if mentoring or not is a decision and it cames with a penalty for the mentor and restrictions of use, you have to take a step back and think: is this the hero and the moment where this activity is better used?
Then u can start analising what will be a ballanced trade.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 20, 2015 08:32 PM |
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how it is balanced there? I lost you.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 08:50 PM |
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natalka said:
how it is balanced there? I lost you.
You didn't. I never played the game, I've simply been following the threads and watching some streams while I wait to be convinced the game has evolved to something decent I want to spend my money on. So, I don't think I'm the right person to say what would balance it; penalties to movement and loss of levels like in Mentoring mod don't seam ideal to me, specially in a game that isn't even finnished yet but I don't dare to say what would.
My point is, if mentor suffers a penalty for mentoring (and then it as to be a voluntary act, not something that just happens) then what mentor suffers can balance what mentor gives.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 20, 2015 09:01 PM |
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I see but it will be hard to balance. Best solution is to ditch skill..who the f invented this skill in the first place? It only gives us headaches.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 09:35 PM |
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I change my mind. The skill isn't OP. I thought it gave 85 % , but it only gives 15 %. It's fine as it is.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 20, 2015 11:04 PM |
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The idea of the paragon skill seems a bit of a paradox in itself. Basically you put a lot of skill points on your main hero into something that will not benefit the main hero a lot (bar the passive stat bonus abilities and occasional ability like the one that increases your Arcane Knowledge). You do this in order to reach the mentor skill in order to be able to level up your secondary heroes for free. So basically you sacrifice your primary hero in order to have multiple good secondary heroes.
I'm not saying it can't work - like pointed out already, the big number of govenor features probably can make it worthwhile to level up multiple secondaries. On the other hand, the XP bonus from the primary skill seems by default useless in the sense that you're likely to put more XP into leveling up the skill than you will get back in the form of bonus XP. H5 came around this issue by offering extra skill points for every X level, but that's not part of this skill anymore. From a design point of view, that is definitely a weird construction.
____________
What will happen now?
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted October 20, 2015 11:06 PM |
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The idea may work if there was no level cap, right?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 20, 2015 11:10 PM |
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It could, if it held interesting perks to choose from (more and better than h5 Enlightenment). Maybe.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 11:31 PM |
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 21, 2015 06:59 AM |
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leveling up secondary heroes for free is OP. Same is necromancy. Introduce dark energy points and remove mentor at all. Substitute it with +2 to all stats ability.
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