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| Thread: The ideal faction lineups |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 22, 2015 09:19 AM |
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The ideal faction lineups
So I asked myself, how would the most ideal lineups for each faction look..? Well beside the the most classic creatures, it depends on taste. But it ofcourse doesn't always have to be classics, there are many more options which could enrich the factions.
I personally is interested in knowing what people think, not just in terms of the lineup itself, but also gameplay and designs. Could be interesting to know for when we come to Heroes 8 (if it ever happens)
Okay, I would like to clearify a few things:
1) With ideal I mean a lineup that statifies the majority, doesn't stay from the factions roots, and fits the gameplay of the faction. A lineup far the most thinks would be great. For iconic you more or less needs to only pick the uttermost classic of units.
2) This isn't mean to be a direct "H8 lineups", but rather the ideals seen from the community.
3) This isn't based of Ashan or any other world. The idea is that the lineups should fit basicly whatever world you would think of, as long as it includes the said factions.
4) No variations. Overcomplicades things. Just stick to the simple one version of each faction.
5) There wont be neutrals. To start out, just the factions. Although, neutrals, boss monsters, and so on could be tackled later.
So we'll start out with the six first factions to be in heroes: Haven, Stronghold, Rampart, Dungeon, Academy, and Necropolis.
Haven
Core
Pikeman, Crossbowman
Elite
Cavalier, Griffin
Champion
Angel, Paladin
Stronghold
Core
Goblin, Orc
Elite
Ogre
Champion
Cyclop, Behemoth
Rampart
Core
Pixie, Hunter
Elite
Unicorn, Druid
Champion
Phoenix
Dungeon
Core
Troglodyte
Elite
Minotaur, Gorgon
Champion
Black Dragon, Hydra
Academy
Core
Golem
Elite
Mage, Djinn
Champion
Titan
Necropolis
Core
Skeleton
Elite
Vampire, Lich
Champion
Bone Dragon
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 22, 2015 09:21 AM |
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted November 22, 2015 02:44 PM |
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'Iconic' Lineups
My 'iconic' lineups (if we're still in Ashan and playing with the familiar factions and not variants- meaning Griffin Duchy Haven, Cult of Asha Necro etc.):
Haven
Core
Sentinel, Crossbowman, War Hound
Elite
Cavalier, Inquisitor, Griffin
Champion
Angel, Swordsmaster
Stronghold
Core
(Goblin) Lynx Rider, Poacher (a spear-throwing, barbaric human hunter) , Orc
Elite
Mastodon, Troll (shooter), Witch Owl (spellcasting, malicious giant owls)
Champion
Cyclops, Wendigo (aka- a smaller, faster and deadlier Behemoth, former humans possessed and twisted into long-clawed killing machines by primal cannibalistic spirits)
Rampart
Core
Pixie, Satyr (armed with twin blades- like bestial Blade Dancers), Elvish Hunter
Elite
Unicorn, Forest Shepard (Ent/Druid combination- spellcasting treemen), Genus Loci (a nature spirit which changes its abilities according to the terrain it fights on)
Champion
Green Dragon (walker), Phoenix
Dungeon
Core
Troglodyte, Assassin, Beholder
Elite
Minotaur, Hydra, Medusa
Champion
Black Dragon, Faceless
Academy
Core
Gremlin, Wadjet (magical winged serpents), Golem
Elite
Mage, Roc, Raksasha
Champion
Titan, Djinn
Necropolis
Core
Skeleton, Mummy (shooter- spits locusts), Ebon Spider
Elite
Vampire, Lich, Banshee
Champion
Bone Dragon, Ankou (Wraith/Dread Knight combo)
Regarding "lost" units like Wolves, Centaurs, Wyverns, Manticores, Gargoyles etc.- they can always return in expansions or as Faction-affiliated neutrals- meaning they don't get a morale penalty when mixing with units from said armies- for example, I don't think underground-native monsters should be limited to only the Dungeon line-up. Also, basically I don't find most of them that interesting...
Some former Champions can return as one-of-a-kind Bosses in the campaign (for example- an Ancient Behemoth constantly summoning Wendigos to its aid, or the Mother Namtaru). I think reducing some units to former units into Warfare units is just a cheap way to avoid creating new models (Namtaru & Faceless, I'm looking at you), & makes them seem weak & useless.
Finally, I'm highly supportive of 3 variants per each faction, but I'm realistic Ubisoft will never do it, especially after the lukewarm reception H7 got. An example can be: 2 Cult of Asha variants for Necro (Arantir's "standard" cultists & Vein's Reapers, who are more might-focused), & Sandro's Void Cult, or the 3 Dark Elf Houses for Dungeon. But once more, I'm skeptical It'll ever be done, so I'm not even writing down these ideas... :-)
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 22, 2015 03:29 PM |
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Seems okay, but Honestly there is a few of your ideas that bugs me.
Why is the goblin riding a lynx of all things..? Why not wolf? And wouldn't it be more logical to have a harpy witch instead of a witch owl. The idea seems wierd. And is there really any reason for the Wendigo over behemoth..?
And what is a "Genus Loci" to be fair..?
Also, doesn't it make more sense to have Djinn elite and roc as champion..?
And lastly, why not just call it a "Grim Reaper"?
But the forest shepherd idea is cool.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 22, 2015 05:27 PM |
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Mediczero said:
Rampart
Oh so you finally gave Heroes 3 a try?
____________
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 22, 2015 05:52 PM |
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Galaad said:
Mediczero said:
Rampart
Oh so you finally gave Heroes 3 a try?
If you're wondering, yes, I've played the HD eddition. It's okay, the standard of heroes. Personally I enjoy Rampart, Tower, Stronghold, and Fortress a lot.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted November 22, 2015 09:12 PM |
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Responses to Mediczero
The Goblin rides a lynx since Orc/Goblin wolf riders are VERY overdone, and I want to have a seperate Wolf or Dire Wolf unit (in Haven, Rampart or as a Neutral). If you don't like the idea of lynxes, they can ride hyenas instead- just not wolves!
About Harpy Witch- I think gigantic owls are much more fun, and Harpies seem too weak for an Elite unit- and also overlap with Blood Furies (a possible unit in my Dungeon lineup, if Assassins are not used), which I prefer very much over them. Also, my Stronghold will ideally be a cold/snow themed faction, so snow owls fit the theme quite well.
Wendigo- I want Cyclops to be the big bulky tank who does area damage and do siege as well, while the Wendigo will be the Champion glass cannon/assassin- possibly the highest damage in the game, but quite vulnerable. They both present a different type of melee Champion (as Stronghold should be the ultimate melee faction), and Behemoths don't fit the role I intend for the Wendigo.
The Gen(i)us Loci comes from Roman mythology, in which they're the protective spirits of places. D&D also featured them as powerful nature-related monsters- and I think the idea of a unit changing its attributes according to the terrain fits Rampart's nature theme quite well, and is much more original than another Elf (notice both my Rampart & Dungeon feature only 1 Elvish unit- perhaps an Expnasion could introduce one more- but not more than that- for each of them, for example Blood Furies in Dungeon & Pegasii/Stag Riders in Rampart).
Djinns- no, because Rocs are just big birds while Djinns/Genies are masters of magic, & I think a magical faction like Academy deserves a spellcasting Champion (much like Dungeon deserves Faceless as a spellcasting faction).
Ankous are another mythological creature, coming from Gaelic lore and specifically the Brittany region of France. As harbingers of ill omen & death, they're basically the same thing- whether you call it Wraith, Grim Reaper or Ankou. IMHO, the Grim Reaper is a singular being & shouldn't describe a multitude of units- yet so are Devils, which I suport as one of the Inferno's Champions should the faction get re-introduced.
Forest Shepard- I say Rampart- which IMHO should be a guerilla faction, fitting its forest theme, doesn't really need pure tanks (Unicorns could traditionally withstand damage, Genius Loci on some terrains can do so as well and Green Dragons are also quite buff) As said, Forest Shepards fill both the "tree-man/spirit" and the spellcaster nieche- so why not? Again, what's better- another Elf?
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Drakon-Deus 
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 22, 2015 11:28 PM |
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Preferred line-ups
I prefer the Heroes 1-3 style of order and not Core and Elite, if it's okay, I'll type my picks that way, with 8 levels for each, unspecified means just melee/walkers with no special traits, or not yet. :
Haven
Peasant (gives small amounts of Gold each day)
Pikeman
Crossbowman (ranged)
Swordsman
Priestess (ranged and spellcaster)
Cavalier (No retaliation)
Paladin (boosts allied morale)
Angel (flyer, resurrects allies)
Yes, I've seen enough Griffins. 
Stronghold
Goblin Archer (ranged)
Orc (150% damage against Elves)
Wolf Rider
Thunderbird (flyer, chance to cast Lightning Bolt on attack)
Troll (ranged)
Ogre Lord
Cyclops (attack paralyzes enemies)
Behemoth (ignore % of enemy Defense)
Rampart
Dwarf (magic resistance)
Elf (ranged, 150% damage against Orcs)
Centaur
Silver Pegasi (flyer)
White Tiger (strikes twice)
Druid ( spellcaster and ranged )
Unicorn
Phoenix (flyer, resurrects itself)
Dungeon
Troglodyte
Harpy (flyer, strike-and-return)
Beholder (ranged)
Blood Maiden (no retaliation)
Minotaur
Hydra (attacks all adjacent enemies)
Shadow Witch (ranged and spellcaster)
Dragon (flyer, 150% damage against Titans)
Academy
Halfling (ranged)
Gargoyle (flyer, enhanced defense)
Boar
Steel Golem
Magi (ranged, spellcaster)
Genie/Djinn (flyer)
Naga Rakshasa (strikes twice)
Titan (ranged, 150% damage against Dragon)
Necropolis
Skeleton
Assassin (ranged, poisons)
Mummy
Vampire (flyer, drains life)
Nightmare (spellcaster)
Lich (ranged, death cloud)
Dread Knight (no retaliation, chance to cast Curse on attack)
Wraith (flyer and casts Animate Dead)
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 23, 2015 08:25 AM |
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Reply to moonshade
Well in honestly I'd perfer the goblins not to be mounted at all. Still, an owl witch? It sounds ridiculous. And just how can an owl be elite when a harpy can't? Honestly, a bad idea.
As for the wedigo/behemoth/cyclop thing, I have another vision. The behemoth as a powerful destructive melee champion and the cyclop as a form of living artillery, but still good in melee.
And honestly, the giant bird seems notably stronger than the djinn. While the djinn may be strong in magic, it's other qualities are weaker, unlike the roc.
Reply to Drakon-Deus
Looks good, but there are a few things that bugs me.
Peasants are next to useless, perfers the griffin even if it's overdone. I like some creatures to be eachothers rivals, but I think that having them do 150% damage against each others is stupid.
Also, I never understanded why the **** the centaur is so low tier. I can understand if he/she is unarmored and is not as strong as a cavalier, but why isn't it even stronger than a dwarf?
And I'd perfer saving the naga for sanctuary. An alternative can be found
Other than that, it looks great. 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 23, 2015 08:55 AM |
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So just standard heroes stuff?
aw... 
anyway, for the standard factions with 7 creatures in order of power (tiers optional but supplied)
Haven:
Pikemen, Crossbowmen, Militia
Griffin, Priest, Justicar,
Paladin
Stronghold:
Goblin raider, Orc axe thrower, Gnoll
Ogre magi, Cyclop, Wyrm,
Thunderbird
Dungeon:
Troglodyte, Argos, Gargoyle
Minotaur, Chimera/Manticore, Gorgon
Black Dragon
Tower:
Cabir, Harpy, Golem
Djinn, Rakshasa, Giant
Mage (see my own version Here)
Rampart:
Pixie, Dwarf, Elf
Centaur, Druid, Unicron
Phoenix
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 23, 2015 09:47 AM |
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Honesly, what where you expecting?
But still, it looks good. Although, what about necropolis?
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted November 24, 2015 06:25 AM |
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Edited by Raenus at 06:27, 24 Nov 2015.
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Here are my personal favorites. Including the game that I am taking the unit from to keep it clear. For example the swordsman from H3 differs greatly from the H7 equivalent.
Haven.
I am probably going to make an unpopular choice here, I never really cared for the Angels and I loved the H2 Crusader. Also the addition of a wolf/hound is something that I really enjoyed from 7.
1: Peasant/Militia, H5. I know you view them as useless, but that is the point. Militia would be more similar to the Pikemen from H3 though.
2: Hunting/War Hound, H7. Not a wolf, more like a neopolitan mastiff or a rottweiler.
3: Crossbowman/Marksman, H3/4/5/6/7.
4: Priest/Zealot, either H3/5.
5: Cavalier/Knight, H3.
6: Griffin/Royal Griffin, H3/5/6.
7: Paladin/Crusader, H2.
Stronghold.
1: Goblin/Hobgoblin, H3.
2: Harpy/Fury, H4/6/7.
3: Orc/Orc Warrior, H5/6/7.
4: Ogre/Ogre Enforcer or maybe a melee Centaur.
5: Roc/Thunderbird, H3.
6: Cyclops/Cyclops King, H3.
7: Behemoth/Ancient Behemoth, H3. Literally my favorite unit ever.
Rampart.
1: Wolf/Warg, H4.
2: Dryad/Hamadryad, imagine a small, female treant, not the green ghosts of H7.
3: Elf/Sharpshooter, from anywhere.
4: Pegasus Knight/Silver Rider, H3.
5: Treant/Dendroid, H3.
6: Unicorn/War Unicorn, H3.
7: Green/Gold Dragon, H3.
Dungeon.
1: Troglodyte/Infernal Troglodyte, H3. Name needs work.
2: Evil Eye/Beholder, H3.
3: I don't really have anything good to fill the void left by the harpy, so just a Blood Fury or Assassin for now.
4: Medusa/Gorgon, H3.
5: Minotaur/Minotaur Lord, H3.
6: Manticore/Scorpicore, H3.
7: Shadow/Black Dragon, H3/5
Academy.
Unfortunately I don't really care. Never liked this faction.
Necropolis.
1: Skeleton/Skeleton Warrior, H3.
2: Ghost/Wraith, H3.
3: Mummy/Ancient Mummy, H2.
4: Vampire/Vampire Lord, H3.
5: Lich/Lich Master, H3.
6: Black/Dread Knight, H3. Same design too, always loved it.
7: Bone/Ghost Dragon, H3.
____________
Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 24, 2015 06:51 AM |
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Mediczero said:
Reply to Drakon-Deus
Looks good, but there are a few things that bugs me.
Peasants are next to useless, perfers the griffin even if it's overdone. I like some creatures to be eachothers rivals, but I think that having them do 150% damage against each others is stupid.
Also, I never understanded why the **** the centaur is so low tier. I can understand if he/she is unarmored and is not as strong as a cavalier, but why isn't it even stronger than a dwarf?
And I'd perfer saving the naga for sanctuary. An alternative can be found
Other than that, it looks great.
Peasants would be tougher than in Heroes 1 and 2.
The "rivalry" with extra damage is a classic item of Heroes 3 and goes back to 2 with Titan vs Black Dragon, fan battle. But I see your point. Maybe the rivalry could instead lead to reduced initiative when they are on the same side or some other kind of bonus or curse.
Centaurs are traditionally lower tier but in Heroes 3 they were among the very best level 1 creatures. I don't hate them or anything. And I personally am a fan of dwarves. But you are right to complain.
And it was not easy for me to choose Academy. I am open to suggestions to replace the Nagas. Or any other suggestions. 
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 24, 2015 08:27 AM |
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Reply to Raenus
Okay, looks pretty classic. Although since I use a system with 8 creature slots there no problem with the centaur in stronghold together with the ogre, but so far it seems a more favored suggestion for Rampart.
And your dryad idea is nice
Also, kinda agree about the crusader.
Reply to Drakon-Deus
Some sort of rivalry could be added, but not now.
And you have to give me right, how is a man/woman with the lower body of a freaking horse is lower tier than a normal human with a crossbow, a small fat (but awesome) man, or a zombie? Logically it would be tier 3 atleast.
As for a replacement for the naga, a Raksasha could do. Some other type of large beastman/spirit or maybe a construct could also do. Mostly depends of the style of the faction.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 24, 2015 05:24 PM |
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Raksasha would do fine by me.
I never said HoMM/MM:H line-ups were logical concerning the centaur.  And I also thought orcs were too weak (tier 1 out of 4) in Heroes IV and similar issues.
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 24, 2015 06:56 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Raksasha would do fine by me.
I never said HoMM/MM:H line-ups were logical concerning the centaur. And I also thought orcs were too weak (tier 1 out of 4) in Heroes IV and similar issues.
You see the problem!
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 24, 2015 10:38 PM |
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So, Mediczero, would you be open for expansion ideas too, like the Sanctuary, which I like, by the way?
Inferno, if you are curious, feels too bland for me, always the pure evil guys and not much else, fun for a while but not something I really like.
Much like how the Griffin-defined Haven to me was about being all good all the time (or enforcing what they thought was good) and saving the world. Heroes IV Haven felt like very inspired for me.
I also edited my original post in accordance with the Naga and Centaur issues. What do you propose to do about the Centaurs? Make Dwarf level 1 and Elf level 2 maybe ?
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 25, 2015 12:35 AM |
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Griffins, Gargoyles and Centaurs aren't particular picky about where they live. Funny they're also the core army of the first enemy faction, the Warlocks.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 25, 2015 01:35 AM |
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Yeah, but the Warlock town is not the same as the Dungeon.
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted November 25, 2015 08:08 AM |
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Yeah, a tier 3. centaur would be more logical.
Also, If you want to make stuff with my all time favorite faction, sanctuary, then go ahead!
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