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| Thread: Question about creatures abilities and stats in HoMM 3 | |
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Loin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 22, 2016 03:11 PM |
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Question about creatures abilities and stats in HoMM 3
Hi guys, I'm playing a lot Heroes 3 and I think it's a masterpiece. I always look at the creatures and I think that they are very well designed, even if it's a game of 1999 the graphic is beautiful, with good sprites and animations.
The creatures are well done in terms of abilities, which reflects the real nature of them. I mean, a basilisk is a mythological figure which petrifies someone with the look, like the game in a certain way; Hydra has three head so it has a multi attack; Vampires sucks life from vital creatures; Unicorn blind with their horn ecc...
I want to ask you something about the creatures stats in the game: do you think that the developers has made every creatures in the game well balanced and with the right stats and numbers? I mean, do you think that sometimes they have choose between random numbers and casually or they have pondered very well every value of every creatures? Damage range, attack, speed, do you think it reflects everything realistically or some city or creatures it's made in a bad way, too powerful or too weak?
I mean, how did they choose "no enemy retaliation" of Nagas and Devils, or the "no melee penalty" of some shooters, casually or based on the real nature of the creatures? Why the death knight and griffins have a damage value so big? It would be very interesting know how and why did they made certain stats.
In conclusion: do you think that the original game, including conflux, in terms of stats and abilities, is balanced or not? If you can modify something, what would you do?
Thanks for the attention 
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 22, 2016 06:55 PM |
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First level units, CC's and Sprites are pretty beast compared to the rest.. Halberdiers have better stats, but are slower, so pretty meh.
Familiars and Hobgobs could be buffed as well (argument here being first level unit are rather special in the beginning of the game). More hp for the familiars could be interesting. Perhaps Skeletons could be debuffed a little, like change their damage range to 1-2 (would be a huge difference in my opinion), or perhaps a more interesting change would be to lower their health to 3-4 (removing 33-50% health of a stack) and keep the original damage.
For second level, Zombie's could definitely be better, more speed would perhaps be enough. A little more speed to the Battle Dwarf as well perhaps.
For third level, I think the Wraith and the Orc Chieftains could be buffed and the Iron Golem could do with a little more speed.
For fourth level, I'd buff the Energy Elementals and the Silver Pegasi, add shots to the Medusa and finally add a little more speed to the Ogre Magi.
For fifth level, I'd buff the Magma Elementals and the Dendroids.
For sixth level, I'd buff the Scorpicore. New #1 level 6 unit!
For seventh level, I'd increase the speed of the Hydra.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted February 22, 2016 07:06 PM |
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Of course there are some mistakes. But in Heroes I and II units are much more unbalanced. They correct it and HIII is rather ballanced. But 7 level is to powerfull. , 2 levels are to weak. Not like in HI and HII but still to weak.
The same in abilities. It is only one return unit harpy. It shuold be more.
And for some units better thing is anothe ability. Attack all around for nagas because they have 6 hands. For griffins another ability. They dont have 7 heads. So why they have multiplied counterattack?
I think that ballancing is needed.
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Loin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 22, 2016 07:35 PM |
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Yeah, skeletons are very good, and since they came in great numbers, they are maybe too strong after a while. But I think that zombies and wraiths are really bad, so Necropolis is balanced thanks to 3 bad units (2,3 and 7th in my opinion) and 4 very good.
Hydra are slow maybe because their heavy, so it reflects that.
For the royal griffin, yeah, the ability it's very good, maybe too much because they also came in great numbers.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 22, 2016 07:54 PM |
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Sadly it doesn't really balance out. Once your unit count depends on the already existing units on the map, and not on your town growth, then you've a big advantage in standard maps.
Gotta agree with baronus, 2nd level units are lackluster, I'd probably increase their growth rate overall to make it a better investment. For the level 7 unit dominance issue, I wouldn't want to change the units themselves (I think e.g. level 4 units of HoMM IV have issues with being too fragile in general), in stead I'd increase the growth rate of all other units, e.g. 33%-50% increase of growth rate of all other units than 7th level units. The reason is I'd not want to change the unit vs. unit game during creeping as much as I'd like to make lower level units more relevant in end game battles.
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Loin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 22, 2016 08:05 PM |
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Yeah, second level is crucial in most game, especially in the first weeks.
What do you think about the resources requirements of creatures dwellings? I think for example that the cyclops cave is really unbalanced because you need so much crystal and level 6 is very important, in fact I rarely use cyclopes. I think in Horn of the abyss this has been changed.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted February 22, 2016 09:05 PM |
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I think it is balanced quite well. This is actually something I sorely miss in the new games. There are some creatures that are obviously stronger when compared to others in their tier. And those stronger ones cost more and have expensive dwellings. Fortresses wyverns are weak, it's no secret. But they're cheap and you can them on week 1 same with behemoths. Griffins are really strong for a tier 3, definitely better than most, if not all other tier 3s. The list goes on.
H4 had the best range of creature power. Black dragons were clearly the best but cost 8k a pop with only 1 growth per week
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Loin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 22, 2016 10:03 PM |
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Another thing we could say about griffins is that you can have a lot of them but you have to build other buildings first, so you can waste some time.
Another example, don't you think that vampire lords are so awesome that their dwelling it's too cheap and simple? You can have it quite soon and they are unstoppable.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted February 22, 2016 11:00 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 23:01, 22 Feb 2016.
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You are right with cyclops. Absurd cost of building. But that is a bug. I fixed it:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=42200
Another unbalanced creatures are imps unit completly for nothig and goblins are weak too.
Zombies are poor of damages and move.
I think that increase growth rate is good solution because rest statistics is good known by players and they wouldnt learn new.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted February 23, 2016 08:11 AM |
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Quote:
I want to ask you something about the creatures stats in the game: do you think that the developers has made every creatures in the game well balanced and with the right stats and numbers? I mean, do you think that sometimes they have choose between random numbers and casually or they have pondered very well every value of every creatures? Damage range, attack, speed, do you think it reflects everything realistically or some city or creatures it's made in a bad way, too powerful or too weak?
Heroes 3 was never very "balanced" and that's why people still play it today, discovering new tactics and situations.
Heroes 6, othe the other hand, was so balanced that all factions are identical => boring! I gave it up after 2 games.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted February 23, 2016 09:07 AM |
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Well if we compare towns like Castle and Fortress it's clear which is easier to play, that does'nt mean the other can't win, they just require different strategy.
Still I feel like Stronghold and Fortress are a little behind, mainly cause of their lack of mage guild 4 and slow speed, Stronghold lacking defense and Fortress lacking offense. Yes they can get Behemoths or Wyverns early, but often they will also lose creatures easier.
All towns also needs Wisdom and Earth Magic and one more magic school depending on town (Air if DD and Fly are allowed)
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Loin
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 23, 2016 09:51 AM |
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Yeah, maybe developers thought that if you build early the vyvern nest you can have them quite soon, and they're also fast.
Anyway, I think that the mage guild 3 especially it's very bad, because if you are fortress or stronghold you have to find another town for Town portal and other amazing spells.
I think that good players can win with everything and with every town though.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted February 23, 2016 10:21 AM |
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Balancing dont means that all faction must be the same. It is another thing. All faction must give the same chance to win. Eg. in HI and II only warlock castle is powerfull and knight castle is very poor. This situation break game. And all unit must be usefull. Peasant in HI,II imps in HIII are for nothing. And that is thing to modding.
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