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| Thread: So what could somehow redeem H7? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 16, 2016 11:33 PM |
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In all honesty, Elvin, have you seen that UbiLimbic took upon those simple and easy to implement suggestions in the past? Is there any reason to assume that they will start doing so now, even though they never did that up to now? I'm not seeing any, but I may lack information to change this point of view.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2016 01:06 AM |
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Stevie said:
fred79 said:
whereas elvis isn't pro-ubi, but overly positive in the face of disaster. a good quality to have, as long as he is able to benefit from it.
It's interesting, because inside the context I've yet to see how the game or anyone else in the circle benefited from such a "quality". If it's not much to ask, I'd like some enlightening examples.
like i said, as long as you're able to benefit from it(i was speaking in the broader sense). maybe some people did like the game. there are apparently fans of the game out there(just like there are fans of candy crush and other inane garbage designed to keep you occupied and not thinking about how snowty your workday is, or how much your work and time monetarily benefits people above you who drive better cars than you, have a better house, life, etc.); though the opposite seems to be true here at hc, and justifiably so.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2016 05:11 AM |
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I think Elvin should proceed according to his own judgement. He's in the know more than us, he has a lot more experience and motivation than we do, and we are too apathetic to be of any use anyway.
Just struggle in any way and however much you want.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted March 17, 2016 08:16 AM |
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"No cause is lost, if there is but one fool left to fight for it." - Will Turner (PotC 3).
Hope may be far away, but the game truly dies if no-one cares to stand up for it anymore. There is a lot of redeeming to do, not just for H7, but for Ubisoft in general, and for those who gave up along the way. H7 can redeem itself through the improvements we've been fighting for all along, improvements such as the ones proposed here by Elvin. Ubisoft might redeem itself by selling the rights, and the lost fans might return when a new company puts Heroes back on the path it once walked. Limbic should try and listen to these improvements if they want to redeem themselves too.
Although there's always the question whether this will truly redeem one or another. For some it will, for some nothing might fix it ever again.
I have seized being all too vocal about it ever since the SC was put to rest, but I am hopeful too. It's not over yet, and I hope it will stay that way for at least a while. Call me naive, call me whatever you want. I haven't played H7 since the first or second beta, so I can't really say much about what to improve and what to leave as it is. At this point I have fallen behind those who have more knowledge of it, so my contribution is simply to express the hope for better times  .
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted March 17, 2016 08:23 AM |
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The_green_drag said:
Economy in h7 is hardly a challenge. Resource silos left and right and your hero can get it as an ability. Every champion dwelling costs the same in gold and they usually require FIVE of a rare resource...........where is the struggle? Next heroes should go back to the h1,2,4 days with very limited town income, and where choices had to be made.
this entirely depends on map..don`t blame the game for it. I can accomplish h2,4 feel on a map for heroes 7 too.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 17, 2016 08:23 AM |
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Dies_Irae said:
Ubisoft might redeem itself by selling the rights
I wouldn't go as far to call that redemption
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted March 17, 2016 08:24 AM |
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Elvin said:
Dies_Irae said:
Ubisoft might redeem itself by selling the rights
I wouldn't go as far to call that redemption
Hence the 'might'  . It would be a start, at least. A start of a long journey, but a start nontheless.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 17, 2016 08:41 AM |
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Maurice said:
In all honesty, Elvin, have you seen that UbiLimbic took upon those simple and easy to implement suggestions in the past? Is there any reason to assume that they will start doing so now, even though they never did that up to now?
I saw this case once - but it wasn't Ubisoft&Limbic, it was Ubisoft&Nival, when they created Tribes of the East and added much of content, which players suggested from beginning of H5 game annoucement (mixed neutral armies, alternative upgrades, Random Map Generator - after one was created by fans already, Memory Mentor which worked as one of WoG object, etc.).
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 17, 2016 10:24 AM |
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Ok, folks, deleted some off-topic posts. Let's keep the reallife religious connotations out of the forums please, there's enough strife of that already in the real world. Besides, Ashan has its own strife in that area, what with Ashan's multi-personality schizofrenia .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2016 03:30 PM |
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natalka said:
The_green_drag said:
Economy in h7 is hardly a challenge. Resource silos left and right and your hero can get it as an ability. Every champion dwelling costs the same in gold and they usually require FIVE of a rare resource...........where is the struggle? Next heroes should go back to the h1,2,4 days with very limited town income, and where choices had to be made.
this entirely depends on map..don`t blame the game for it. I can accomplish h2,4 feel on a map for heroes 7 too.
How? It's now easier than ever before to obtain rare resources with the buildings within a town and the hero skills. And yet the amount of resources spent on buildings has decreased....this has nothing to do with which map is being played, I simply do not need mines like at all. (Not talking about wood/ore)
In the past if you had access to your factions rare resource, like h3 rampart, you'd be using a lot of it (10 for Pegasus dwelling, 20 for green and gold dragon dwellings).
Some factions in h7 that don't use alchamist lab and get one of a certain kind still hardly need that certain resource. Academy can get 1 dragon blood per day yet it costs only 5 for their champion dwelling!?
There just isn't a challenge with economy in h7. When you add the town levels and slow town deleopment, there's not even a reason to rush getting rare resources because you won't need them till later weeks.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 17, 2016 03:50 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 15:53, 17 Mar 2016.
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I think Nat means that she can create a map where you have exactly the same feel as you had in H2 and H4. No special resource building, no Hero skill that does the same and steep special resource cost on top end buildings and creatures. I don't think Nat means just any map as it currently exists ingame.
Edit: Coming to think of it, I guess it would be a nice challenge to see if someone (Nat?) can recreate a (famous) map from H2 with the exact same design in economy and creature lineups and the like.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 17, 2016 04:01 PM |
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Back in the day H5 mapmakers tried to make up for H5 shortcomings by creating their maps around them. But honestly a mapmaker should't HAVE to.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted March 17, 2016 05:12 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 17:19, 17 Mar 2016.
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Elvin and Maurice helped me express myself here. Actually , Maurice , I can build a map while leaving economy skill and buildings in the game but the map being poor and the goals being high( build 2 castles). That is exactly how my map plays but the shortage there is more around gold and common resources. I have never run out of rares....hmmm I wonder why 
But indeed town buildings are flawed. How come tier 6 unit costs more in rare resources than the champion unit?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 17, 2016 05:24 PM |
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natalka said:
But indeed town buildings are flawed. How come tier 6 unit costs more in rare resources than the champion unit?
lol
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 17, 2016 06:48 PM |
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Here's a place to start:
- New skill system.
- New magic system.
- New unit system.
- New town construction system.
- New game.
Sorry, I know I'm behaving badly, I couldn't resist. 
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What will happen now?
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted March 17, 2016 06:53 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Here's a place to start:
- New skill system.
- New magic system.
- New unit system.
- New town construction system.
- New game.
Sorry, I know I'm behaving badly, I couldn't resist.
-Or try to somehow create a very good random system on top of the current one with % increase to abilities and introducing %/x level
-Or really work to make the current one work, or else try to gather various spells in 4 schools
-It isn't bad as a system but it needs to have clearer roles from unit status and not be so homogenized.
-Never bothered me so much really. If it were for me, i would even add more constrictions to some things
-If many of the above mentioned stuff in this thread do happen to a degree, it will feel like a new game
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potmdehex
Known Hero
professional ERM™ scripter
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posted March 17, 2016 07:28 PM |
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Maurice said:
In all honesty, Elvin, have you seen that UbiLimbic took upon those simple and easy to implement suggestions in the past? Is there any reason to assume that they will start doing so now, even though they never did that up to now? I'm not seeing any, but I may lack information to change this point of view.
In Ubisoft's (Limbic not involved) defense, they officially released a re-implementation of my mouse lag fix for Heroes 3 HD Edition in a patch just a few weeks after I released it.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 17, 2016 07:31 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Here's a place to start:
- New skill system.
- New magic system.
- New unit system.
- New town construction system.
- New game.
Sorry, I know I'm behaving badly, I couldn't resist.
Pretty much this. We can add hero specials, governance redesign, creatures abilities, major overhaul of skills and spells... etc. New company, new team, it's starting to be hard to get worse than what we're being delivered ever since h6, it seems the only people capable of screwing things even more are the people currently at helm.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 17, 2016 08:01 PM |
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potmdehex said:
In Ubisoft's (Limbic not involved) defense, they officially released a re-implementation of my mouse lag fix for Heroes 3 HD Edition in a patch just a few weeks after I released it.
releasing that abomination HD edition cashgrab in the first place already nullifies any goodwill they could earn from the bare minimum of support they eventually bothered to give it under pressure from more talented people than them from the fanbase lol
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted March 21, 2016 12:44 AM |
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Elvin said:
I am well aware of where we stand but there are still people who like the game and I don't see why we shouldn't try to make it better while it is still being developed. Especially when many of the ideas are easy to implement, editing hero movement, spell formulae and hero specials should be a matter of minutes.
We tried that somewhat with H6 man. Problem is you can't make a game better, if it's fundamentally bad. Even if some steps will be taken, one look on that ugly graphics and this souless world, and I'm back to point one... it's not about the mechanics even, I simply had a retrogressive reaction when I played it.
And if we're on the subject, H5 was redeemable cause it fundamentally wasn't a bad game. It had it's, what I like to call, "Nival" charm. The theme was a bit cartoony, but it still to some point captured a bit of the series magic. But it went downhill from that point...
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