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| Thread: Skills for Defensive vs. Offensive Heroes |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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zombiewhacker
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 16, 2016 08:39 PM |
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Skills for Defensive vs. Offensive Heroes
A question for veteran players of HOMM3:
When you're upgrading hero skills at the start of the game, do you make conscious decisions about the roles your heroes will play, and then choose accordingly?
Like: "I'll be using this hero to capture towns, so I'll need this particular skill upgraded." Or: "This hero will be left guarding my home town, so I'll need tactics (or whatever) as soon as possible."
Or do you end up leveling your heroes' skills willy-nilly, with little difference between heroes that take the fight to the enemy versus those heroes that fill other roles?
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batoonike
Known Hero
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posted May 16, 2016 09:02 PM |
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There are numerous topics on this but basically people usually want logistics, earth magic, air magic, offence, armorer, tactics on the one boss hero and other heroes are considered scouts. Some reasonable scout skills might be logistics, scouting, scholar, estates. With plenty available experience players sometimes give several potential boss heroes some experience to see which one of them get's the best skills the fastest and then turn this into their main.
Most certainly it's not chosen randomly 
Disclaimer: i'm not veteran.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted May 16, 2016 09:06 PM |
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I'm far from a veteran but what I do is:
1. develop 1 hero to be the main, I will look for Logistics, Earth, Air and Wisdom plus Offense, Tactics if possible, between the other skills Water or Archery and in some cases Diplomacy;
2. develop an hero with Scholar so I can trade spells, namelly the ones from Shrines and other heroes;
3. specially in HotA, try to get some heroes with Scouting to far see the areas blocked;
4. sometimes I even restart till I get some hero with +350 gold first day but in any case, try to get resource specialists with Estates to garisson towns. For this guys I also try to get Tactics and Artillery but I don't care much;
5. in the case main is without Diplo and joinners possible, develop one or two heroes with it and follow main with them, till I get enouch stupid joinners for them to be able to get more without original town's army. After that I will probably designate another guy to follow this one and have it with 1 of each creature from my town, so Diplo guy can always present a creature from that type, in the case in find some. This guys tend to become my number 2 so I try to get them Wisdom, Air, Earth, Logistics, Leadership and maybe Scouting or Scholar to mix roles.
Anyway, I usually don't think of deffensive heroes X offensive heroes but heroes to explore, attack the map and attack other heroes plus heroes to increase production (resource specialties, Estates, legion and resource artifacts). Ofc, this last ones being in towns have a deffensive role too but truth been said if I don't have TP and town is attacked I usually lose so I see them more as another "mine" then as a deffensive resource.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 16, 2016 09:36 PM |
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Some heroes are definitely better than others, but I'd prefer most to all heroes to be able to deal with neutrals to collect the highest prioritized goals as fast as possible and get the main hero (who on the other hand really ought to be a good choice) to the enemy town as strong and fast as possible.
Developing a town guard so to speak is perhaps more for when playing AI, because a game that postpones due to town sitting can quickly become boring, but if stuff like hit&run (perhaps with diplo to compensate for hit&run) is allowed then by all means develop strong spell casters (focus on developing the power attribute) and have a hopefully fun and different game experience, but still remember to have at least one might hero, such as a barbarian or a beastmaster, who focus on the attack and defense primary skills.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 17, 2016 12:33 AM |
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I could write a really long post about this, but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.
As I play without Town Portal and Dimension Door I usually need 3 kinds of heroes:
Main hero: Usually only 1, who fights and explores the most and has all the best artifacts.
Town Defenders: One for every town I own. (Unless I have more than one Inferno with Castle Gate, in which case one hero for all Infernos)
Scouts: For scouting and picking up stuff without having to fight much.
These are the skills I tend to pick for...
Main heroes: Wisdom, Earth Magic, Logistics, Offense (Replaced with Archery if Tower) Armorer and usually another magic school depending on faction.
Town Defenders: Artillery is awesome for defending town, Offense (Archery if Tower) Armorer, Wisdom, Earth Magic. Estates won't help defend the town, but extra money is always good, especially at impossible difficulty. If defending a Fortress or Stronghold you might consider Eagle Eye to get some more spells. And if defending a Rampart, Fortress or Necropolis you might consider First Aid. Still Eagle Eye and First Aid are not the best skills...
Scouts: Scouting (Duh), Logistics, Pathfinding (if there is rough/snow/sand/swamp) Navigation (if there is water) and Estates.
You might also consider Tactics and/or Diplomacy for main heroes, Intelligence for main heroes and Town Defenders and Resistance for Conflux and Rampart armies.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 18, 2016 08:48 AM |
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if you level up a scout hero, be sure to pick earth and then expert it. Even weak hero with mass slow can take out a big conservatory provided he has enough meat.
And that will save your main heroes movement.
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ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 18, 2016 09:47 AM |
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I tend to just go after these points:
1. Hack/Gund(Orrin as Tower if the first two is not present) > All
2. Barberians > Anything else.
3. Armorer Heroes > What is left.
Then on the skill tree it tends to be:
1. Offense
2. Magic School (depends on the town)
3. Logistics
4. Archery (depends on the town)
5. Tactics
6. Armorer
7. Resistance
8. Wisdom
As secondary Heroes I prefer Warlocks and Wizards seeing as how they can conquer towns alone with just Magic Arrow or be of use with their high spellpower when chaining.
Town defenders: Artillery is all you need.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted May 18, 2016 01:03 PM |
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In Heroes II, III if you defeat all unit theres no counterattack. So big attack is better always. In defence too :-)
In Heroes I in defence castle better mamy be defence because tower has unlimited shots and is no destroyed.
In HIV it is not so important because counterattack is synchronized.
For offensive hero logistics, wisdom, one or more magic.
For deffensive logistics too because must be fast to go to city before enemy :-) Archery and artillery may be good because towers...
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted May 18, 2016 02:46 PM |
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Sadly Archery don't increase damage of castle towers like giving more power to ballista and canon in HotA.
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zombiewhacker
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 23, 2016 09:50 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Main heroes: Wisdom, Earth Magic, Logistics, Offense (Replaced with Archery if Tower) Armorer and usually another magic school depending on faction.
How does that stack up exactly, choosing magic schools by faction?
I can certainly see Necromancers needing Earth Magic to cast Reanimate Dead most effectively, for example, but I'm not too clear as to how these other factions rate.
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ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 23, 2016 09:53 PM |
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zombiewhacker said:
How does that stack up exactly, choosing magic schools by faction
Certain factions can benefit more/less depending on the spellschool and spells available. For example Tower can make greater use of Earth Magic due to Mass Slow than say Stronghold who would prefer a Mass Haste.
But this does not mean you have to pick X school for Y town.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 24, 2016 12:59 PM |
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I am nowhere near pro...but as I see other players` game...everybody plays with earth+air(might heroes). If they have anything else it is because they had no luck with the RNG.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 24, 2016 01:03 PM |
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Yeah I understand everyone going for Earth and Air if all spells are allowed, but I play without Town Portal and Dimension Door, so Earth and Air is less important. (I always pick Earth anyway for Slow, Resurrection/Animate Dead, Meteor Shower, Implosion and all the other awesome earth spells)
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted May 24, 2016 01:24 PM |
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Earth is a bit different from anything else, is so strong that has to be present in ANY ideal build. Is not just Slow at level 1 being the most crucial battle spell also Shield, Stoneskin, Quicksand, Antimagic and Earthquake upto level 3 and then simply the strongest levels 4 and 5.
Air is vital to travel, if DD and Fly are allowed but loses much of his importance if they aren't while Earth may be even more important for travel but is always the most important school for battle.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 24, 2016 04:27 PM |
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natalka said:
I am nowhere near pro...but as I see other players` game...everybody plays with earth+air(might heroes). If they have anything else it is because they had no luck with the RNG.
In online games people prefer Earth Magic due to its power vs the Map but also its use in the end battles. But your choice of magic will depend a lot on your playstyle, town, enemy faction and hero type. If you are an experienced player the need for Mass Slow to deal with the map might not even be required, but Earth Magic still provides good spells for almost any situation, not necessarily the "best" spell for a certain situation but at least a decent spell.
Bloodsucker said:
Earth is a bit different from anything else, is so strong that has to be present in ANY ideal build.
Earth is powerful but not all present powerful. Sometimes Curse can be more effective than Slow and Berserking can be a gamebreaker. Sometimes a mass bless can aid more than a mass shield, it all depends on the type of combat and factions.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 03:26 PM |
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Ebonheart said:
Sometimes a mass bless can aid more than a mass shield, it all depends on the type of combat and factions.
Totally true. Notice also you're the one using the word sometimes. While all other schools will sometimes be more usefull then Earth, Earth will probably be more usefull then any other magic school in most of the battles. So it has to be present in any ideal build, cause it's the one you will probably need more often.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 25, 2016 04:44 PM |
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Earth magic must not be present in any ideal build because it comes down to what you as a player prefer. The power in earth magic lies in its ability to provide a spell for almost any situation but the spells aren't always the best for said situations. It is like a gamble. Going for earth magic and getting mass slow is quite a certain bet. Whereas going for fire magic in hopes of getting Berserk/Armageddon/Sacrifice is a greater risk as these spells are more rare to find than slow and are also considered to be weaker vs the map. If they are not present or if the enemy has artefacts/creatures to counter them, then the gamble is a loss. However if things go right, it will pay off in a deadly maner.
What magic skill that is "mandatory" boils down to what kind of player you are, what faction you prefer, what stratagems you employ, what risks you dare to take and so on.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 08:15 PM |
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I guess you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
Suppose you got Gunnar (sorry, Thunar) on week 4 on Conflux and you have a witch hut giving you Artillery enearby, you also have a scholar with expert Scholar that knows a ton of spells and access to an altar of sacrifize and a ton of crappy stuff, what schools do you buy and how?
Personally I would buy earth, level it to expert and just then consider to buy anything else. But that's me.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted May 25, 2016 08:35 PM |
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I do love a good debate Bloodsucker and in this case I argue because I enjoy this little wisdom exchange of ours.
Now as for your example. I understand it this way: I have my hero without a magic skill but a good deal of artefacts to sacrifice on the altar for xp and it will give me enough to get the magic school to expert. But I do not know what spells that reside in my town magi guild, the spells my scholar hero carries, or if I have wisdom on Gunnar or his knowledge/power skill. The artillery skill from the witch hut I deem to be of no concern here. I also do not know the enemy faction.
In this situation I would go for Air Magic in hopes of getting the Haste spell. I would consider a blitz to be more safe given my shortage of information. If I can buy anything else after air magic is at expert, I would buy Earth Magic.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 09:04 PM |
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I already noticed that I was focusing on town deffender's and you on early heroes. While I maintain Earth is essential to any ideal build I'm not saying you should start with it on main in all cases, if I'm using Terek I will raise my hands if I get Air first.
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