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| Thread: Lv 1 specialists |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 30, 2016 08:34 PM |
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Lv 1 specialists
During my years of playing Heroes 3 one thing has always puzzled me and I have never truly gotten a good answer regarding the question.
Lv 1 specialists are among the most favourable heroes for the first week (Shakti, Gretchin, Galthran to name a few). It is also quite a common opinion that the sometimes absurd amount of lv 1 units they tend to come with are small gamebreakers.
But why are there no lv 1 creature specialists for Castle, Rampart, Tower and Conflux? Were they considered too powerful?
Could there have been heroes selected to be the lv 1 creature specialty hero of those towns but for some reason got changed? What hero do you suspect might have been the selected hero for the job?
I am personally set on Sir Christian when it comes to Pikemen, Halon for Gremlins, Mephala for Centaurs and Ciele for Sprites.
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OhforfSake
Promising
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posted June 30, 2016 08:39 PM |
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My guess is exactly because it was imagined to be OP.  I'm a bit surprised Galthran got through, and then he even boosts his skeletons more than any other hero can boost their own units. What is it, +10/10 around lvl 25?
Halberdiers and Centaur Captains have the overall best hp/att/def, Centaur Catpains and Sprites are already fast and very fast for their tier and Sprites has no-retal to add. Master Gremlins can shoot. In my opinion we could have a pikemen spec., the unit is so slow anyway.. I don't think I'd mind a MG specialist either to be honest.
Edit: Also I noticed that these creatures are from the good aligned towns and the AB expansion town, that could also have something to do with it perhaps..
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Ebonheart
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posted June 30, 2016 08:45 PM |
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Agreed, I did not write good towns out though as Conflux have been both good, bad and neutral.
I also would not mind a MG hero. 100+ Gremlins from first hero on day 1? Yes please!
Imagine a max stack of 120+40 from second hero + 16 from town = 176 Gremlins.
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PandaTar
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posted June 30, 2016 08:46 PM |
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I do think that the answer would be that they are very strong. Centaur and Pikemen, when upgraded, are fairly great. The other two, one being a potential, and numerous ranged unit, and the other one having the no retaliation ability might also have been considered too strong for a hero having specialization.
As for assigned heroes to take that role, I cannot really make up my mind, given that I don't remember most of the heroes. Making a fast search here ...
CASTLE – probably Sylvia, to make her useful in maps without water
RAMPART – Genova or Mephala
TOWER – Neela or Halon
CONFLUX – Ciele or Gelare
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
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posted June 30, 2016 09:21 PM |
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I really wonder if they would be that strong though considering less numerous? Pikemen and Centaurs may have good health, damage and ratings but their overall numbers are not much to cheer for.
Sprites are good but only when upgraded and while Gremlins would be powerful the Skeletons and Troglodytes comes in similar numbers.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 30, 2016 10:20 PM |
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Well, it would be monotonous to have every faction have level 1 specialist, I say.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 30, 2016 10:25 PM |
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We also lack a Medusa specialist and one of the identical Earth Elemental guys could have had Air Elementals instead.
A Pikeman specialist could perhaps be okay, but I think the others would be OP.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
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posted June 30, 2016 10:35 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Well, it would be monotonous to have every faction have level 1 specialist, I say.
Well you got a specialist for pretty much everything else so I can't see any reason for why not to allow these specialists aswell.
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PandaTar
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posted June 30, 2016 10:38 PM |
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Ebonheart said:
I really wonder if they would be that strong though considering less numerous? Pikemen and Centaurs may have good health, damage and ratings but their overall numbers are not much to cheer for.
Sprites are good but only when upgraded and while Gremlins would be powerful the Skeletons and Troglodytes comes in similar numbers.
Probably gremlins and sprites could have specialization if they didn't have supportive buildings (for greater numbers) in their towns. The other two, as you said, are not that numerous.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
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posted June 30, 2016 10:56 PM |
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Only Sprites have supporting building, Gremlins only got Citadel/Castle + any dwells on the map. Imo, only the Sprites would be a bit over the top, but that also means giving up on 7th dwell + Castle during the first week if one wants to upgrade Magic Lantern.
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PandaTar
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posted June 30, 2016 11:40 PM |
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Ah, yes, I got confused by the visuals in my mind's eye. That building is only the upgraded for gremlins. Parapet is what gets numbers.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
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posted June 30, 2016 11:47 PM |
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Indeed but that's nothing to worry about.
However, I still think all units could get a specialty hero.
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OhforfSake
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posted June 30, 2016 11:58 PM |
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Ebonheart said:
Imagine a max stack of 120+40 from second hero + 16 from town = 176 Gremlins.
Sure why not? I believe it could go over 200 as well with lvl 1 spec. with 30+ pr. unit and 2 tower heroes with gremlins in the tavern and gremlins from the town itself. I have a faint memory of restarting maps over and over with Shakti to get +200 Trog's day 1.
Unupgraded Gremlins certainly aren't OP, I can't exactly remember how well they fare, but I believe they're about the same quality as Goblins and Imps.. Upgraded would make map cleaning easier, but could cost out on high level units. At least it'd open up the doors for a valid secondary tower tactic if you get horrible item spawns on the snow landscape.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
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posted July 01, 2016 12:10 AM |
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The max is 216 from day 1 assuming all 3 Heroes get 40 of each stack.
They do fare very well vs the map thanks to the numbers and they are actually better unupgraded than upgraded because of the low chance for Archery heroes and skillups compared to offense. Let alone the fact that almost all units will be melee during the first week.
Of course, the insane gain is the additional Gremlins for the end fight.
For example I had a fight vs some rocks on the map with Orrin at lv 19 with a 17 attack power rate.
9x Titans does 1,3-1,9k damage.
367x MGs does 0,9-1,9k damage.
So yeah, their numbers matter.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 01, 2016 12:19 AM |
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Lets not forget that by the time they set specialties, game wasn't patched. You could attack and rehire with same army any hero, as long as you had the money. Thus amass a very large force of level 1 since first day (we used it in toh to get 200-300 gremlins on first day). Combine that with a specialist and you get something terrific so early.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
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posted July 01, 2016 12:22 AM |
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But Sal the Gremlin Rush was fair play, well, at least for us who used it.
Although one cannot deny that fact that Tower has the best potential for deadly lv 1 stacks in the end fight after Necro.
Them blue santas are nothing to scoff at when they hit as hard as Titans.
Edit: By the way Sal/Ohf, can I send you my almost complete guide for Tower to have you take a quick look at it before I finish it up and post it?
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 01, 2016 08:37 AM |
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There is only 8 might heroes per faction and 7 units + ballista + plus + tent = 9 specialisations. Some hereoes are skill specialist eg. logistic, estate... So a lot of units cant have specialists.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 01, 2016 10:31 AM |
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Ebonheart said:
Edit: By the way Sal/Ohf, can I send you my almost complete guide for Tower to have you take a quick look at it before I finish it up and post it?
Sure, didn't you receive my confirmation email? Was 1 week before.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted July 01, 2016 11:20 AM |
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Ebonheart said:
Tower has the best potential for deadly lv 1 stacks in the end fight after Necro.
I don't know why 3DO did it like this but Tower has the strongest overall aligment (specially good if cons are frequent and you can get a fast and strudy flier, the thing Tower doesn't have) then they ballanced this with the crappyest heroes one can imagine, instead of Jabarkas, Yog and Gurnisson they got Theodorus, Josephine and Torosar. So, I would love to have a Gremlin specialist with Archery and Tactics, Logistics or Pathfinding but I would prefer to have a Theodorus with Archery and a Thane with Offense and Tactics/Armorer then a brand new hero with Gremlin specialty with Sorcery and Intelligence, if you ask me.
Another thing about creature specialist is they are great if you start with that town but they only represent tons of fodder for all others, while heroes like Neela, Mephala and Genova are usefull in any situation. So if you ask me, I prefer to have specialists in almost anything but creatures in the heroes pool.
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OhforfSake
Promising
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posted July 02, 2016 12:21 AM |
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Ebonheart said:
Edit: By the way Sal/Ohf, can I send you my almost complete guide for Tower to have you take a quick look at it before I finish it up and post it?
You're very welcome, though I have inkling that you're much more experienced with Tower than me. ^^
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