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| Thread: A disappointment |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Mz
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 11, 2002 04:32 PM |
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A disappointment
Heroes 4, well what can one say about this abomination of a game. Having played Heroes 1,2, and 3 this new release is definately sub-par.
1. The graphics in the game are horrible (beautiful creature representation are replaced by wobbling sprites)
2. The game lacks balance.
3. The game lacks multiplayer (never actually imagined a gaming company can sink so low. I mean what's next? Release intro, then release 1 game level at a time?)
4. The sound is tolerable at best.
5. The game jitters and lags (in single player), even though I ran it on 733P3, 450MB RAM, GeForce 2 DDR, SB Live, 60GB HD.
6. The battle screen size is small, grid removed, and retaliation by ranged against ranged are allowed.
7. The new towns lack the atmosphere the give them their uniqueness.
8. There are only 4 level of creatures and no upgrades or creatures or buildings.
To be fair..
1. Hero development is much more in depth (RPGish to some degree).
2. One can choose different path to develop a town with building level limitation, although 4 levels of creatures is simply not enough since the differenced between any two adjacent creature level is drastic (unlike a more smoother transition in HOMM3).
Sorry to say, but even though I am a big fan of 3DO and NWC this game is gone back to the store in the cheap little box I got it in and was traded for Jedi Knight 2: Outcast. Outcast is not HOMM but at least the game is finished, not painful to look at, and does not require me to force myself to play it.
As for HOMM I will continue playing for HOMM3, AB, SOD, and thank EBWorld for its gracious return policy while waiting for HOMM5 to regain what was lost in HOMM4.
Mz
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Helias_GR
Hired Hero
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posted April 11, 2002 04:51 PM |
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Heroes 4, well what can one say about this abomination of a game. Having played Heroes 1,2, and 3 this new release is definately sub-par.
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1. The graphics in the game are horrible (beautiful creature representation are replaced by wobbling sprites)
The graphics in the game are GREAT.
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2. The game lacks balance.
The game has great balance(except for computer player AI)
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3. The game lacks multiplayer (never actually imagined a gaming company can sink so low. I mean what's next? Release intro, then release 1 game level at a time?)
Very funny...Hot seat is multiplayer.Net play will come after we have learn to play this TOTALLY NEW GAME.
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4. The sound is tolerable at best.
The sound is GODLIKE!!!(
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5. The game jitters and lags (in single player), even though I ran it on 733P3, 450MB RAM, GeForce 2 DDR, SB Live, 60GB HD.
The game runs great in your pc.(Maybe i could teach you one thing or two about pc optimization)
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6. The battle screen size is small, grid removed, and retaliation by ranged against ranged are allowed.
Battle screen is large ,grid removed cause the hexes are to small(i hope it comes back) , reataliation SHOULD be allowed...(More strategic , more right)
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7. The new towns lack the atmosphere the give them their uniqueness.
The atmosphere is great.
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8. There are only 4 level of creatures and no upgrades or creatures or buildings.
Acctually there are 5 and the heroes come into play with your army...
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To be fair..
1. Hero development is much more in depth (RPGish to some degree).
2. One can choose different path to develop a town with building level limitation, although 4 levels of creatures is simply not enough since the differenced between any two adjacent creature level is drastic (unlike a more smoother transition in HOMM3).
If you wanted to be fair you should mention at least 8 good things(trust me there are many)
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Sorry to say, but even though I am a big fan of 3DO and NWC this game is gone back to the store in the cheap little box I got it in and was traded for Jedi Knight 2: Outcast. Outcast is not HOMM but at least the game is finished, not painful to look at, and does not require me to force myself to play it.
You should really give the game another chance...Is great.Take back that piece of junk(outcast) and buy back H4.
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As for HOMM I will continue playing for HOMM3, AB, SOD, and thank EBWorld for its gracious return policy while waiting for HOMM5 to regain what was lost in HOMM4.
I am sure it will be a great loss for the heroes community... 
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Mz
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Helias_GR
"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right."
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kevyip
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 11, 2002 05:33 PM |
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Edited By: kevyip on 11 Apr 2002
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H4 doesn't disappoint me, but certain things in it boggle my mind. In a siege combat, for instance, an invading melee troop can attack somebody right BEHIND the wall. That just doesn't make sense.
the manual clearly states, "The only way melee troops can attack each other across the walls is if both troops are standing adjacent to the wall." So this is not a bug.
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Krishhh
Adventuring Hero
still learning spells
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posted April 11, 2002 05:44 PM |
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It is kind of ment like the defenders near the walls "man the walls"so they can attack but this way they also can be attacked.And the attackers suffer much this way becouse for him to attack the deffender he must stand in the moat .and as you see in the combat screen the walls aren`t wery high so it IS possible to attack over but you can also hide behin them.
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Promising student of magic.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 11, 2002 07:28 PM |
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Well at least yous bought the game and gave it a try, the only people i cant stand saying the game is crap are the ones who have not even played it ( i mean talk about idiots)
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 11, 2002 09:36 PM |
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wow... I didn't realize I was playing such a crappy game. Hmm, I'll have to give it a second look and reconsider whether or not I should buy it. (Playing a friend's copy right now)
1. I like the graphics just fine. Very different, but I really only dislike the satyr's animation.
2. If you think it lacks balance, you should probably read some threads here. Every single town is stated as being better than the others by somebody or another, and in cases like that, you can be assured that there must be some balance. Yes, I hate some balance issues (medusa stongaze thread, anyone? ), but for the most part it's good.
3. Hotseat is fine for now, net play will be introduced, and if you can't imagine a company doing this, look to firaxis. Civ 3 (another excellent game) also lack MP for now.
4. TOLERABLE SOUND??? What kind of crack do you smoke? The music is incredible compared to that crappy little heroes 3 stuff. I mean, they actually hired people to sing. It's so much more immersive.
5. As Helias_GR said, optimize your computer. My game runs fine on a AMD K6-2, 450MHz machine. 256 MB ram, Voodoo4 16MB graphics card, old SB32 AWE sound card. Your system is more than enough to run it.
6. The battlefield is BIGGER than 3, so I don't know what your problem is there. No grid, yes that's annoying. And I LIKE the retaliation... makes you have to think in battles, fewer mind-numbing "I know I'm gonna win so let's get this over with" battles like heroes 3 had.
7. I somewhat agree, in that the towns are so similar now (4 levels of creatures, most items exactly the same except one or two special items, structure placement the same, etc). But it hardly affects gameplay, and I still feel a definite uniqueness from town to town. It's the strategy the towns give you from their creatures, heroes, and spells that makes them so unique.
8. Come on, heroes 1 had 6 creatures per town, which was plenty. 2 added upgrades I think, making even more, and 3 had 7 levels each with an upgrade - 14 creatures per town! That was insane! You spent more time upgrading creature dwellings than doing anything else... yeah, I wouldn't mind more creature types per town (6 or 7 would be good), but I think 5 is better than 14. Much less annoying. "Ooh, I got red dragons! Oh wait, my other town has black dragons, so I can't fit them in my army. I guess I'll get rid of my level 1's since they're USELESS anyway" Personally, I like that all creatures maintain some degree of usefulness throughout the game.
Enjoy Heroes 3, though, if that's what you like. I'll continue playing 4. And tomorrow I get my $100 from selling used books on amazon, and I will finally buy my very own copy and support this incredible new development from NWC.
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted April 11, 2002 10:06 PM |
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1. The graphics in the game are horrible (beautiful creature representation are replaced by wobbling sprites)
Can't argue there
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2. The game lacks balance.
Agree partly. Vampires are just silly, AI plays like it's head is stuck up it's ass.
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3. The game lacks multiplayer (never actually imagined a gaming company can sink so low. I mean what's next?
I agree that the game has an unifinished feel to it, but the multiplayer delay is fair enough (as long as we don't have to wait years ), we could use the time to learn the game before turning on eachother.
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4. The sound is tolerable at best.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, if you're referring to the music, sure, it's not as good as the HOMMII music (which I still hum while playing HOMMIV), but it beats the HOMMIII crap.
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5. The game jitters and lags (in single player), even though I ran it on 733P3, 450MB RAM, GeForce 2 DDR, SB Live, 60GB HD.
Don't have any problems (P4 1,9 Ghz, 512 RD-ram, Geforce 2, 80 GB HD)
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6. The battle screen size is small, grid removed, and retaliation by ranged against ranged are allowed.
Agree, but of course ranged attackers can retaliate.
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7. The new towns lack the atmosphere the give them their uniqueness.
You're absolutely, 100%, dead right. This has been a problem ever since the release of HOMMIII. More weight on pixels and 3D, in stead of good, atmospheric graphics. Atmosphere must go at the expense of other, crappy things. A nasty tendence.
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8. There are only 4 level of creatures and no upgrades or creatures or buildings.
Yes, and what bothers me in particular is the silly combination of Inferno and Necropolis.
What I really like, though, is that creatures are good for different things. Like Vampires will struggle against Gold Golems or Dragon Golems, so when facing Academy enemies, Venom Spawn could be the wiser choice.
Play well
DonGio
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted April 11, 2002 10:30 PM |
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1. Are we playing the same game?
2. Lacks balance? The game seems to be well balanced to me.
3. If you've kept yourself up to date in any way, you knew THAT before you bought the game.
4. The sound is great.
5. There is a bug. As someone reported, the game seems to run worse every time you use the "Load" option. And if your game runs poorly the first time you Load, then you need to take your PC to a doctor for maintenance.
6. None of these things bother me. Ranged retaliation is GOOD. The battle animations grow on you, and I rarely used the hex grid anyway.
7. This one I agree on. There are a number of reasons for this.
- The relative sizes of the building is too small.
- Something like a third of the town screen is empty sky.)
- The town have the same placement of the buildings. (Bad move)
- There are too many builds that are the same.
- In too many cases you build things because they are prerequisites for other builds and not because you want the buildings. (This means that towns are left half undeveloped, on purpose.)
- Too few unique builds per town.
8. I don't see the four levels as a major problem by itself. However, too few worthwhil builds in the town screen is bad.
In short, you're discontent about a lot of things that are Ok or even excellent to me eyes.
On the things that are wrong I'd put as number 1-10:
The Adventure Map AI must be improved.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Mz
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 11, 2002 10:59 PM |
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wow... I didn't realize I was playing such a crappy game. Hmm, I'll have to give it a second look and reconsider whether or not I should buy it. (Playing a friend's copy right now)
1. I like the graphics just fine. Very different, but I really only dislike the satyr's animation.
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It's not just the satyr animation, the creatures just look plain dumb IMO. Leprachauns (sp?), hell hounds, all walk like they have a stick up their a$$.
2. If you think it lacks balance, you should probably read some threads here. Every single town is stated as being better than the others by somebody or another, and in cases like that, you can be assured that there must be some balance. Yes, I hate some balance issues (medusa stongaze thread, anyone? ), but for the most part it's good.
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Maybe, however after playing it for 5 days (and then returning it) I found out, that there are two many imbalances in the game. Again, just MO.
3. Hotseat is fine for now, net play will be introduced, and if you can't imagine a company doing this, look to firaxis. Civ 3 (another excellent game) also lack MP for now.
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Fine for now? Man, you must really not give a crap about your $50. After playing this game, I would not recommend it to anyone for greater than $20.
4. TOLERABLE SOUND??? What kind of crack do you smoke? The music is incredible compared to that crappy little heroes 3 stuff. I mean, they actually hired people to sing. It's so much more immersive.
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I have SB Live with the newest drivers, and the music jitters, skips, and makes buzzing noises.
5. As Helias_GR said, optimize your computer. My game runs fine on a AMD K6-2, 450MHz machine. 256 MB ram, Voodoo4 16MB graphics card, old SB32 AWE sound card. Your system is more than enough to run it.
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Helias_GR gives me the impression of a person who wants some attention on this forum. My system is perfectly optimized and I did build it from scratch. Besides, all my other games work perfectly fine (Wolfenstein 3d, JK2 utcast, HOMM1-3, Vampires Masquerade - note most of these are not tetris games and rely on top of the line systems to run well), that tells me the problem is not my system, but a buggy game.
6. The battlefield is BIGGER than 3, so I don't know what your problem is there. No grid, yes that's annoying. And I LIKE the retaliation... makes you have to think in battles, fewer mind-numbing "I know I'm gonna win so let's get this over with" battles like heroes 3 had.
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Perhaps it seems bigger but it's not. A lot of low level creatures are able to cross it in 1 turn which tells me that either it is too small for the creatures provided, or the creatures are poorely designed. The absense grid is very annoying. HOMM3 was like chess with beautiful graphics you can plan attacks, and use tactics on the battlefield, I don't see the same thing happening in HOMM4.
I don't like ranged retaliation because it makes no sense. It defeats the whole purpose of blocking your creatures with melee troops (i.e. Heroes 3), and makes them targets on any battlefield.
7. I somewhat agree, in that the towns are so similar now (4 levels of creatures, most items exactly the same except one or two special items, structure placement the same, etc). But it hardly affects gameplay, and I still feel a definite uniqueness from town to town. It's the strategy the towns give you from their creatures, heroes, and spells that makes them so unique.
8. Come on, heroes 1 had 6 creatures per town, which was plenty. 2 added upgrades I think, making even more, and 3 had 7 levels each with an upgrade - 14 creatures per town! That was insane! You spent more time upgrading creature dwellings than doing anything else... yeah, I wouldn't mind more creature types per town (6 or 7 would be good), but I think 5 is better than 14. Much less annoying. "Ooh, I got red dragons! Oh wait, my other town has black dragons, so I can't fit them in my army. I guess I'll get rid of my level 1's since they're USELESS anyway" Personally, I like that all creatures maintain some degree of usefulness throughout the game.
**
Wrong.
Enjoy Heroes 3, though, if that's what you like. I'll continue playing 4. And tomorrow I get my $100 from selling used books on amazon, and I will finally buy my very own copy and support this incredible new development from NWC.
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HappyPike
Known Hero
Pikeman
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posted April 12, 2002 12:03 AM |
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Why is that when someone doesn't like a game, he/she often gives the game a rating of "1" in all areas: gameplay, graphics, sound, documentations...?
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Also a Civilization fanatic:
http://www.civfanatics.com || forums
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2002 01:20 AM |
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Dunno. I think Homm3 was as good as it gets in terms of graphics... Yes, HommIV has a new style of graphics, isometric, and some things certainly are better... blah blah blah, graphics are fine yes, but they could have been MUCH better. The things that are inorganic (ex. manmade: ballista, armor, weapons etc.) look absolutely great. The organic modelling could have used a lot of work with the texturing and outfits of the creatures. It is not richly detailed as Homm3, and I still like about 50% of the Homm2 creatures better than Homm3, and definitely all of them over HommIV (with the exception of some of the new creatures... nightmare was great for example)
Call me a conservative bastard who sucks and is a snow and all, but I feel that even without the graphics part of it, HommIV was a bit rushed with some major things being a step back from the previous games. People who haven't played 2 and 3 will not notice it, and people who want to believe that HommIV is spectacular spectacular will not notice it at first either. I don't see it as revolutionary as most people do, simply because there was nothing to revolutionize: if there is nothing wrong with it, don't fix it.
P.S. The silly simultaneous retaliation thing is something uniquely stupid to HommIV (well at least, recently.. Fantasy General had simultaneous battling) I don't see what was wrong with the faster creature striking first- if a superior stack of thunderbirds attacks a pack of pikemen by surprise, aren't they going to kill all the pikemen before the pikemen get a chance to react back because they are able to kill the pikemen faster than they can grab for their pikes and stab at the birds?
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2002 01:36 AM |
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I really agree with these two point:
I mean its really bugging me that people are saying its your computer recently ive played sacrifice Deus Ex Shogun
Return to castle wolfenstein, max payne all without a single problem, it aint the computer its the game
The battlefield does to me some less tactic is involved just by the shape of it, to me it seems to wide and not long enough it reminds me of heroes 1 the way most things can cross the board in 1 or two turns. Heres another thing missing from battles where the hell is all the hills, forests,swamps,rivers and bridges? I wanted the battlefield to create different tactics to the combat and this has not happened.
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 12, 2002 01:49 AM |
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Mz, sorry, you are definitely entitled to your opinion when it comes to graphics, game balance, and number of creature dwellings in town, as those issues are very relative. I disagree there, but that's not really debatable because it is so relative.
As for your computer, maybe you have the win2k/winXP bug I've heard about. Some people with great systems running win2k/xp have the stuttering problem, making the sound seem really bad (when it's actually pretty nice IMO, and at least tolerable in most people's opinion).
I do agree that the grid (or lack thereof) is very annoying, as it makes it very tough to strategize effectively. I expect that to come in a patch.
Ranged retal doesn't change the h3 style of blocking your shooters in - if you can surround your shooters, they're invincible because a ranged retal AND a ranged attack won't be able to hit them. It is tougher to box them in like in 3, because the grid is smaller, but it can be done fairly well (another reason the grid is needed).
Darion, this is what I really hate, saying that people (such as me) "want to believe that HommIV is spectacular" and that clouds my judgement of whether or not it's a good game. That's bull****. I know I like it better than 3 because I've played it since the day it came out and I find it more interesting each time I play. The heroes are more deep, the town alignments are more interesting, the spells are more well balanced (did anybody ever use quicksand or landmine in H3?), and I could go on.
I don't make this up, I have my reasons for loving H4. You may or may not agree, but don't tell me that my opinion is wrong just because you don't share it. Also, people did see there was something wrong with the HOMM series: it was becoming stagnant. H3 was great, but it was just more-of-the-same from H2. A few new things, but no really big changes. I think doing a full makeover was a good idea, and I'm not the only one.
Last, simultaneous retal may not make sense to you, but it is hardly unrealistic - how often can we "assume" that in H3 all creatures are being caught by surprise? If there are 10 dragons fighting 10 angels, both sides will fight at the same time. Even if the angels are caught offgaurd, that wouldn't stop them from defending themselves. Yes, they'd have a tougher time of it, but they'd still fight back. Pikemen may be up against more when thunderbirds attack, but to say NONE of the defending pikemen get a chance to defend is absurd.
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted April 12, 2002 04:25 AM |
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Well, I had the sound bug, and I fixed it by turning off hardware acceleration under "sounds" in control panel.
And I got to enjoy the great music. But then I had the crashing bug once the acceleration was off. So I just put the acceleration back on, and listened to other music while playing. By the way, i thought the music wasnt great, since I was listening to it while it was skipping.. but listening to it without skipping will change your mind.
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My Site
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Sir_Elric
Responsible
Famous Hero
Having a bad hair day.
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posted April 12, 2002 05:22 AM |
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As far as the "real" multiplayer, WHAT A CROCK!!!
Multiplayer is what it's all about if you ask me, I can't believe they would bring the game out unfinished!!
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2002 06:56 AM |
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Animations at first are really not done well. Lots of frames seems to be skipped.
Game takes up 200MB of RAM!
Range retalation is really really not something I like 
Walls in the castle are looking plainly bad, and moat too...
If you look at each one of the series - 1, 2, 3 - they got this STYLE - each one different - but everything was made with that standard.
Now in IV they've used fully prerendered graphics - and that's the bad point - it misses the authentic look it got once (for three consecutive times).
Some of the music beats are too techno or new-style - rhythm not very well suited for non-industrial type of Strategy/RPG game (if that was the case - yep).
But maybe it's little bit of medieval industrial (I hate it) type of Strategy game - what about those mechanical dragons? uh?
Generally - the game lacks STYLE in graphics and music. Also lacks lots of frames of animation. But once I got over it - i can continue play.
And I still think that heroes playing in the combat is not just the way I wanted.... I was having this suspicion even year ago - that Heroes in Battle - will not work good... And I think it's not working at all... Maybe you guys are okay... Just not me...
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Abazagaroth
Hired Hero
Paladin of Knowledge
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posted April 12, 2002 08:28 AM |
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Anyone that makes claims that someone's computer can run the game, and that the people complaining about it just don't have their computer optimized are full of crap. Probably the same people that think the graphics are amazing. HELLO! Welcome to 2002! There are so many types of motherboard architecture, ram architecture, different processor speeds and generations, computer companies can't test everything. NWC/3DO are one of the worst at this. I would lay money down on them having spent 99% of their time working on this game with a P3 with SDRAM and a standard motherboard architecture. Anyone that plays high quality games knows about these issues, it happens on every single new game that is graphic intensive.
I know my comp was out of comission for over a month when SoL came out for Everquest, and I built my computer and know it inside and out. And I'm not suprised at people having problems with XP, considering 3DO hasn't ever supported it until this game, and its a crapshoot whether a 3DO game will work on an XP system. Also, there are MAJOR issues with DX8.1 (which is very different from DX8), and it also wouldn't suprise me if this game was tested exclusively with dx7/dx8.
Anyways, I've made opinions on the game known, its got a lot of flaws, but it also has strong points. Unfortunately, it lacks the charm of the previous games. I couldn't get away from my comp with heroes2 and heroes3, but I have to make myself play heroes4, and find myself bored quickly.
P.S. The graphics suck. This is 2002 and if they wanted to make a "beautiful" game they shouldn't have made it with outdated graphics, or they should have stuck to bright sprites that at least had some charm.
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C. David Kreger
dkreger@yahoo.com
[url]http://www.modernhumanorigins.com[/url]
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kevyip
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 12, 2002 08:25 PM |
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Edited By: kevyip on 12 Apr 2002
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To Krishhh,
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It is kind of ment like the defenders near the walls "man the walls"so they can attack but this way they also can be attacked.And the attackers suffer much this way becouse for him to attack the deffender he must stand in the moat .and as you see in the combat screen the walls aren`t wery high so it IS possible to attack over but you can also hide behin them.
The walls are low, but they are still above waist level, and that should make it hard for a creature like a Pikeman to stab someone behind it. I don't mind having this feature, but it's straining believability and realism.
Also the arrow towers (which look more like huts) bestow a astonishing 100% increase to melee and range attack/defense skills of ANYTHING (!!) that steps on them. That is just too, too much of a benefit. Not to mention, this drastically affects strategies in seige combats. An invading army's top priority becomes breaking through the gate and climbing up to the defenders' arrow towers! If I put a Level 4 creature on an arrow tower, it becomes practically invulnerable.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2002 08:54 PM |
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"The game has great balance(except for computer player AI)"
From 4th mission of first campaign forward I was going around with 6 heroes , no creatures.
Just for fun I tried to take town using just one heroe (26 lvl , GM combat , GM meele ). It was like : Celestial armour ,straight to the door, knock knock , whose first , whose second , regeneration , whose third ... thats it? no more creatures for my lonely heroe to slain ? There was not so many creatures , around 350 weaker ones in total . But there was more . Second one man show (with leatle help in healing from priest though) : 30 efereti , 7+6 hydras , forgot the rest but around 100 + in total .
Great balance ?
Isnt this an example of crappy AI and not bad balance i mean why was he attacking you one unit at a time (i take he was blocking the door way with one unit at a time), why did he not kill your helping priest?why did he not sit on top of the towers make you walk right up to em and fight from them? crap AI
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 12, 2002 08:56 PM |
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The walls are low, but they are still above waist level, and that should make it hard for a creature like a Pikeman to stab someone behind it. I don't mind having this feature, but it's straining believability and realism.
Also the arrow towers (which look more like huts) bestow a astonishing 100% increase to melee and range attack/defense skills of ANYTHING (!!) that steps on them. That is just too, too much of a benefit. Not to mention, this drastically affects strategies in seige combats. An invading army's top priority becomes breaking through the gate and climbing up to the defenders' arrow towers! If I put a Level 4 creature on an arrow tower, it becomes practically invulnerable.
wall attacks, in my opinion, should be one-way. It's not right to be able to use an unretaliatable troop to hit and run THROUGH a wall. But I like the benefit of the arrow towers for one reason: the citadel and castle are so freakin' expensive that you need a reason to buy them. The towers almost make them worthwhile.
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