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| Thread: addressing an ongoing issue |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 08, 2017 05:12 AM |
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Moderators have to do a recurrent and tedious job, for free, with the goal of creating a better place. People like fred, like me, like anyone, come when they like, post when they like, then disappear for as long as they like. Moderators can't do that, they have to show everyday, read all posts, politely answer to hysterical hcm's while they surely don't give a snow about, then try to make everyone happy. In this context of dedication, I have no clue why some here work so hard to make mods life even more tedious by questioning their fairness over trivial issues. When you are told to pay attention to your behavior, you do it or you create your own forum and see by yourself how great is when no authority at all.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 08, 2017 11:31 AM |
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I am sorry to hear you are planning on leaving Fred.
My own belief against what I feel to be unfair treatment has developed to a practice of ignoring it as much as I can to be the best answer and try to avoid conflicts. I know this definitely isn't your style and I respect that you speak up against bad treatment.
On the positive side, the penalties you got doesn't hinder you more than most people and most of us likes you a lot and we believe you like us too, so if you ever reconsider, please keep in mind how awesome we have had it together and can have it together in the future too. I am sure if you asked 99% of the people who knows you on the forum, they would rather want your company than to be without it.
Under all circumstances, I wish you well Fred, I am sure you will have a lot of awesomeness in your future as you've had in your past, and who knows maybe one day the spaghetti light will decide for us to meet again, perhaps even at this place? 
Best wishes!
William said:
being a step dad now
You haven't shared this before have you? That is fantastic! Congrats Will, I hope things are going well!
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William
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 08, 2017 12:59 PM |
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Stevie said:
You come here reading once, missing the months old context of the mods having to deal with him, thinking you have an idea about anything, when it's been clear right from the very beginning that the guy is a repeated offender, admittedly against the CoC in his own words and you could even figure it out just by reading him in this thread, being warned multiple times, having been talked to in dozens of replies both in public and in private (even I tried reasoning with him), explained to with precision the exact reasons why he should not do this or that and why he got penalized when he went ahead and did it anyway on more than just one occasion. But hey, let's just dismiss all that under the banner of ignorance and appeal to majority and who gives a snow about the CoC or designated arbiters and let's just keep reiterating to brick walls because that's someone's idea of constructiveness and all that and just pardon him because that hasn't been done before.
Yea, what the hell.
Lmao. You assume that because I do not post as often as I used to that I do not still look at things? Naive and ridiculous thing to think but whatever mate, feel free to think what you want. Btw who even are you? I don't have to have been personally involved to actually have an opinion on an issue that involves the community as a whole so go sit back in your corner and actually respond when spoken to rather than give me some ridiculous rant about how I shouldn't be able to comment because I 'apparently' don't know the ins and outs of it and then finish off with "What the hell".
Quote:
P.S: How rich of you to talk about being constructive about someone's posting issues when I can remember one similar thread being closed partly because of your self-fulfilling prophecy that everything could go awry. Not even a hint of hypocrisy striking you, huh?
Self fulfilling prophecy that everything could go awry? Oh right, me actually giving an opinion on something that I thought may not have been right? Sorry, didn't realise that I had to agree with everything that you write. Next time, champ, I'll ask for your permission first whether I should be allowed to comment on something and whether you agree with my opinion or whether I will be ruining a thread.
I wrote what I wrote because I see what Fred writes and there have been a hell of a lot worse cases that have gone unnoticed. He may not be liked that's for certain but that doesn't mean a Mod has to talk down to him like he's rubbish and blatantly disregard what's being written. I understand why some people cease to be a moderator of a forum (I have been one before so I can have an opinion) and it does get tough with being loved and hated at the same time by people. Thing is, you have willingly done it and thus have to listen to what people like to say whether you like it or not. That isn't me saying you have to like the members but to publicly dismiss what a bloke is writing is not right with me. That is purely me though and my own personal view on it. Sorry if you disagree Stevie but I don't really care.
A fair few people as well as an ex mod think what has been done is harsh. That's not just my opinion, that is others. Now if there's anything further you want me to clarify with you then feel free to message me otherwise do not write that type of post again. Waste of my time.
Forfy....G'day mate, been a while. Yeah, fair bit has happened to me in the past few years. Met this girl, moved in and am a stepdad to her child. Definitely been a bit of a shock to the system but so far I am loving it. How are things going with you, mate?
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 08, 2017 03:10 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 15:11, 08 May 2017.
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You are pointlessly antagonizing again stevie. There are better ways to make your point, without being provocative or making a scene.
Hey Will, good to see you.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 15:33, 08 May 2017.
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How about you spare me the rough Aussie attitude, "champ"? Or is that your usual choice of words when arguing with other people? Because it doesn't help with your case, on the very contrary actually.
William said:
Lmao. You assume that because I do not post as often as I used to that I do not still look at things? Naive and ridiculous thing to think but whatever mate, feel free to think what you want. Btw who even are you? I don't have to have been personally involved to actually have an opinion on an issue that involves the community as a whole so go sit back in your corner and actually respond when spoken to rather than give me some ridiculous rant about how I shouldn't be able to comment because I 'apparently' don't know the ins and outs of it and then finish off with "What the hell".
Take a second look at your post. You're giving me the "who are you" talk on a bellicose tone just seconds after stating that you read here and that I assume otherwise. At this point you've dispelled any doubt on that front, although it was plenty obvious from your previous post, so congrats on that. Then you pretend to have the "opinion" high ground, but dismiss my own on the basis that I have to sit in the corner and talk when being spoken to. Again, trying to come across as intimidating and managing to stay oblivious at your own hypocrisy. It doesn't matter how you try to wrap your claims, opinions or whatever, it's only reasonable to be able to put someone's words to the test and see if they hold water or not. Unfortunately for you, you're making it very easy to see that they don't. This is not something I assume, it's something you're putting in full display on your own.
Oh, if you quite didn't understand the "what the hell" part, it was taken from your own post.
William said:
Self fulfilling prophecy that everything could go awry? Oh right, me actually giving an opinion on something that I thought may not have been right? Sorry, didn't realise that I had to agree with everything that you write. Next time, champ, I'll ask for your permission first whether I should be allowed to comment on something and whether you agree with my opinion or whether I will be ruining a thread.
It was Verriker that coined it to you when you simply barged in on a perfectly constructive thread about someone's posting issues (it was Husham, if anyone still remembers the guy) and lamented how someone shouldn't be put on the spot like that. Corribus, who was on the fence about closing that thread as he admitted it was more of an experiment, ultimately decided that the atmosphere devolved into something undesirable, in part because of you. That's just in the books, "champ", agreeing or disagreeing is nothing more than your train of thought derailing into irrelevant territory.
William said:
I wrote what I wrote because I see what Fred writes and there have been a hell of a lot worse cases that have gone unnoticed.
So let's turn a blind eye yet again on account of all the others times issues went unnoticed. Sound logic. Should we also do that when they don't?
William said:
He may not be liked that's for certain but that doesn't mean a Mod has to talk down to him like he's rubbish and blatantly disregard what's being written.
It was never an issue of being liked, that's besides the point, as well as the part about disregarding. The simple fact is that he's broken the rules repeatedly even after being warned multiple times. Mods have dealt with him exemplary, coming across with eloquence and reason, and the only one who came with a disregarding attitude was none other than Fred. I am sure that anyone that's not completely lost in their bias can establish that. Galaad, for example, does a very good job at it, and he likes Fred a whole lot, as do many.
But it's interesting and quite baffling how the irony escapes you yet again, as you apparently talk against being condescending and talking down on others while doing so to me in this very same reply.
William said:
I understand why some people cease to be a moderator of a forum (I have been one before so I can have an opinion) and it does get tough with being loved and hated at the same time by people. Thing is, you have willingly done it and thus have to listen to what people like to say whether you like it or not. That isn't me saying you have to like the members but to publicly dismiss what a bloke is writing is not right with me. That is purely me though and my own personal view on it. Sorry if you disagree Stevie but I don't really care.
As I already implied in my earlier post, reiterating a point ad nauseam is not my idea of constructiveness, nor do I think that a mod has to endlessly put up with someone's unwarranted reactionary outbursts, especially when the person in question is actually the one unwilling to listen. As earlier stated by someone else, communication is a two way avenue, and guess where that puts the onus in this case.
William said:
A fair few people as well as an ex mod think what has been done is harsh. That's not just my opinion, that is others.
Ex mod? Wasn't it mods, plural? Oh, you're reading here, I see. But when it comes to the actual active mods, plural, namely Corribus, Omega, Maurice, Bruker and Kiryu (one of the best iterations of a mod squad recently in my opinion), that agree that Fred crossed the line and that the punishment was due, you conveniently sweep that away because it doesn't fit your confirmation bias, right? A fair bit of people think it's harsh, but a fair bit of people think it isn't. But guess what, neither are mods, and that's probably for a reason.
But again, even if that weren't the case and there was an overwhelming majority against Fred's penalties, it would still not matter. Upholding the rules is not an appeal to majority.
William said:
Now if there's anything further you want me to clarify with you then feel free to message me otherwise do not write that type of post again. Waste of my time.
You clarified more than enough, probably more than you even intended, but let me clarify something to you instead: Firstly, you don't go around telling people what to do, lest you want to appear rude and arrogant in a conversation. Secondly, your time is on your hands and whether you chose to waste it or not is entirely up to you. Thirdly, this message wouldn't have been any less of a waste of your time if it were private instead of public, so there you again with the sound logic. Also, take your own advice sometimes. You're not the only one with an "opinion" as you're not the only one who has to be listened to, trying to downplay others as less worthy only makes you appear hypocritical.
Good day.
Elvin said:
You are pointlessly antagonizing again stevie. There are better ways to make your point, without being provocative or making a scene.
Really? The guy comes in here and dismisses an entire conversation as "this rubbish that has been said" while showing how little understanding on the subject he has, and you think that I'm the one antagonizing? Have you even read this last reply from him?
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 03:50 PM |
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What I would like to know is whether the use of regular non-derogatory terms for parts of the human anatomy - like penis, vagina or clit(oris) - is allowed or not, because if it wasn't I'd consider this as a very 1950s thing.
If, on the other hand, only female parts were taboo, this would add an aspect that would a much more unsavory element reminding me of the way certain fundamentalists of Abrahamistic religions see the world.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 04:01 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2017 04:15 PM |
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The only thing more disgusting than the amount of empty rhetoric in the reply above to William is the amount of schadenfreude you display through this situation all along and it's becoming impossible not to react. Since you refuse to stop even though Verriker and Elvin tried it nice, let me have it bluntly:
Both parties had their fair points in the beginning, the penalty was arguably an overkill. Yet, fred once again turned into his conspiracy theories, killing communication, plus threatened to make fake accounts so things escalated. However, nobody except you is so transparently enjoying what happened to him afterwards. The mods certainly don't act happy about what they had to do, meanwhile you stick in sarcastic "goodbyes" to his farewell messages, knowing he is vulnerable and helpless because of the recent situation, never forgetting to kiss some authority ass in between. Your behavior is more toxic and more destructive to the spirit of this place than any word about the human anatomy, banned or not.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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William
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 08, 2017 04:18 PM |
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Quote:
Really? The guy comes in here and dismisses an entire conversation as "this rubbish that has been said" while showing how little understanding on the subject he has, and you think that I'm the one antagonizing? Have you even read this last reply from him?
I actually had a rather long reply to all of what you wrote but decided that enough is enough. You came in and assumed what my intentions were, you assumed that I do not read anything and that I am no longer here and then antagonised me with your initial rude reply to me about a post that had nothing at all to do with you. You made an incorrect assumption and thank god I am not the only one to have noticed that you were antagonising and, like Elvin said, causing a scene for the sake of it.
If you don't like me mate then don't reply to me. If you make an incorrect assumption and then attack me I will attack back. Got no issue with you as I don't properly know you but a bit confused as to why you replied in the way you did towards me when I've had no history towards you.
Whatever, take it easy and no hard feelings. It's an internet forum after all lol.
Elvin, g'day mate. Been a long time. How you doing mate?
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 04:18 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 17:10, 08 May 2017.
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artu said:
The only thing more disgusting than the amount of empty rhetoric in the reply above to William is the amount of schadenfreude you display through this situation all along and it's becoming impossible not to react. Since you refuse to stop even though Verriker and Elvin tried it nice, let me have it bluntly:
Both parties had their fair points in the beginning, the penalty was arguably an overkill. Yet, fred once again turned into his conspiracy theories, killing communication, plus threatened to make fake accounts so things escalated. However, nobody except you is so transparently enjoying what happened to him afterwards. The mods certainly don't act happy about what they had to do, meanwhile you stick in sarcastic "goodbyes" to his farewell messages, knowing he is vulnerable and helpless because of the recent situation, never forgetting to kiss some authority ass in between. Your behavior is more toxic and more destructive to the spirit of this place than any word about the human anatomy, banned or not.
Oh, do I have to explain that as well? The first "Goodbye" was honest, the "Goodbye again" was sarcastic, since he's clearly not sincere in his projected maturity on his decision to leave. It's just another cry for attention, to which I befittingly replied. And if you think I'm enjoying this, you couldn't be more wrong. I want this thread closed and the issue settled once and for all.
William said:
I actually had a rather long reply to all of what you wrote but decided that enough is enough. You came in and assumed what my intentions were, you assumed that I do not read anything and that I am no longer here and then antagonised me with your initial rude reply to me about a post that had nothing at all to do with you. You made an incorrect assumption and thank god I am not the only one to have noticed that you were antagonising and, like Elvin said, causing a scene for the sake of it.
If you don't like me mate then don't reply to me. If you make an incorrect assumption and then attack me I will attack back. Got no issue with you as I don't properly know you but a bit confused as to why you replied in the way you did towards me when I've had no history towards you.
Whatever, take it easy and no hard feelings. It's an internet forum after all lol.
Look man, real talk. In your first reply, you essentially accused the mods that they're unwilling to listen which is completely false, the publicly dismiss part was a silent call out aimed at Maurice, you proposed a pardon from a majority feel which is a fallacy, and this part especially - "but surely some of you must sit down reading this and think what the hell? Give the guy a break, a warning would have sufficed, not this rubbish that has been said", was completely unwarranted and didn't sit right with me at all. You then excuse it with a disclaimer, but come on, do you build up on the criticism and then just excuse it that way? Overall, I got the feeling that you missed out on a whole lot of what transpired and that you wanted to have a say anyway, in that form and with that attitude.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 04:25 PM |
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A word is a word. There is nothing wrong with asking, how big was the biggest penis you ever saw, or with asking the same about a clit or discussing that - it's just anatomy and no different from discussing the length of fingers of musicians or your body building and the size of your muscles.
Vulgarity is in the eye of the beholder, and as long as there is no offense or discrimination, why censor it? Censorship is a heavy constraint of intellectual freedom, and considering that as of today we consider it as necessary to teach young children about sexuality, it's very backwards to assume there are children that might be shocked about reading a couple of words and be shocked or something, if they are on the other side old enough to surf the internet.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 08, 2017 04:42 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:52, 08 May 2017.
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Stevie said:
he's clearly not sincere in his projected maturity on his decision to leave.
Leaving is certainly not the "mature" thing to do and while it could be arguable you're not enjoying the current argument you're certainly enjoying the penalties and silence Fred had to go through since you clearly want him gone.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 05:06 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 22:20, 08 May 2017.
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Absolutely not. Where do you people even get the idea? Would you think that I'd go as far as taking it to Fred in private and talk it over for several days if I wanted him gone? I sincerely wanted him to remedy his behavior and continue posting at HC and hoped for the best, but he just had to reject any advice given to him and continue on his self-righteous path that the CoC was wrong, that the mods were unfair and that he knew better. At which point, I became indifferent about him and understood that he either gave it a good thought and decided to abide by the rules, or he continued with his behavior and was better off gone. So please, don't misunderstand my intentions here, I already said this once before.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 08, 2017 05:13 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 17:15, 08 May 2017.
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JollyJoker said:
Vulgarity is in the eye of the beholder, ...
Quoted for truth. The fact is, we have many people from all over the world visiting here, from various cultures, ages and genders. As moderators, we cannot exactly determine what goes and what doesn't in each of those backgrounds. The best we can do, is use the CoC as a set of guidelines to judge where a topic falls.
In general, moderators haven't strictly applied the CoC; the boundaries are grey and fuzzy and we've tolerated stuff that when put to trial in a court, would've been penalized. And that's good, actually. It gives a bit of flexibility, it allows people to sometimes skirt slightly into the grey. Nudge against the border, without ill intent. We can allow that, there's no real harm done, as long as it's done in a responsible and mature manner.
The counterpart to this freedom is that when the moderators do ask for people to consider what they're doing when they're drifting off too far, they are also responsible enough to acknowledge this and change accordingly. No harsh words or feelings from either side.
However, when someone ends up disregarding these appeals and knowingly keeps going off the far end, that's when more and/or harsher measures have to be applied. These measures serve two purposes: they give off a stronger signal to the one doing it that the displayed behaviour is undesired and they also give off a signal to everyone else that such continued behaviour is not tolerated - it is intended to avoid setting precedents where it's ok to break the rules as often or as far as they have been.
With regards to the latest burst, I would like people to take a step back and take a breather. Consider the goal you wish to achieve with your post before you hit "submit reply". Consider whether your post may come across as condescending or aggravating, where other words might achieve the same goal.
Lastly, I would like people to drop the whole issue that started this topic, as it only serves to perpetuate the issue. All that has been said and done has been said and done. It's highly doubtful that anything is going to get changed as a result. This also counts for the numerous tribute posts in the Volcanic Wastelands. While a few serve as a nice jab (in whatever direction), adding more of those brings the risk of rubbing a sour spot.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 08, 2017 06:31 PM |
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I can pretty much guess I'll never understand why it was right to silence him for 7 days plainly as a result from the OP
Bring up 50 other things all day long, the silence was still a result of the OP. He already got his penalty for the C word.
I've mentioned that 5 times but I'm used to being ignored from my first 20 years of life so it's all good.
I'm done with this, enjoy your days. I'll be in other threads.
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What are you up to
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 08, 2017 07:25 PM |
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William said:
Forfy....G'day mate, been a while. Yeah, fair bit has happened to me in the past few years. Met this girl, moved in and am a stepdad to her child. Definitely been a bit of a shock to the system but so far I am loving it. How are things going with you, mate?
Sounds great! Nothing really to announce in my life, though I did start playing club level chess again last autumn and it has actually gone much better than I expected.
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Living time backwards
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 08:25 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 21:35, 08 May 2017.
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i'm glad i'm not the only one seeing the bias here(though it's funny how you can disagree with my outlook even AFTER seeing the bias).
i'm shortening the bulk of this post to point out that i feel almost certain that stevie had an active hand in all this.
Maurice said:
All that has been said and done has been said and done. It's highly doubtful that anything is going to get changed as a result.
quoted for truth. this isn't going anywhere, and it's just further seperating people with bickering that won't solve anything. but, i hope that people remember what happened here, for future reference. because this kind of thing will happen again(it's happened before), and with the same kind of people vs the other kind of people. nothing's going to change that. so there's no point arguing.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted May 08, 2017 08:58 PM |
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For what it's worth I love you all.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted May 08, 2017 09:38 PM |
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I will not add more to the argument as IMHO my points I made still hold water, I still disagree with that, but I will just say that I highly respect that the mods defend their actions publicly and did NOT bow to the bit of moaning to close this thread,
I feel it is much healthier to naturally hash out a dispute within reason than to shoot down any discussion and be basically control freaks who could not be bothered to substantiate their actions (as on many other internet forums), cheers for that lol
I will also hope that fred will stay as much as he can as his contributions are invaluable, cheers also lol
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 08, 2017 09:44 PM |
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Quote:
you can ban me(anyone). i'll(or anyone here can) create another account. you can ban THAT account. i'll(or anyone here can) create another one. you can ban my(anyone's) ip address. i'll(or anyone here can) get another one(and another, and another, and another). you can even ban my(or anyone's) mac address. i'll(or anyone here can) just use another computer. ad infinitum.
you getting the picture yet?
Seriously, anyone of you who would have given the RESPONSIBILITY of being a moderator on this site, would you not have acted? There is no bias, there is one very destructive member, and for the fun and joy he has given us, he is now waging a war on this entire forum and and the moderators. Wake up. This is just a power struggle, and don't waste your breath on this paranoic suicide mission that fred is on.
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