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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2018 12:10 AM |
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Edited by monere at 00:13, 26 Aug 2018.
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cleglaw said:
Homm will never die. I mean maybe in name, but the idea will carry on. Maybe after a decade but it will eventually find a new name to live on. You know why?, because ideas never die.. ehem.. i mean iconic games never die.
Well, take it as a joke so you won't get disappointed, but... I've said a few months ago on this forum that I've set my mind to create the best heroes-like game EVER. I've played Heroes 3 for 20 years, and Heroes 4 for another 10 or so, I'm also a fan of Heroes (even though I'm not really good at the game), and after all of the disappointments that Heroes 4 and beyond have been, I've finally decided to create my own game that will make your jaws drop.
Like I've said, take it as a joke for now, so you won't get disappointed, especially since I'm piss poor and have no idea where I'll get the millions needed to employ a team to create it, and especially since I have absolutely NO talent at anything (no designing skills, no programming, no anything).
But I've got motivation and ideas (plenty of ideas), and more importantly I've started putting them in their special .txt files (factions, spells, skills, creatures, concepts, etc.) and I'm adding a little bit of everything to these files each day. The thing that bothers me the most is the lore / story / campaign aspect of it because I'm not really a creative person (I think...), but it doesn't matter. At the right time everything will fall into place, and I'll be able to create the absolute best Heroes-like game, even better than the benchmark that is Heroes 3.
I'm giving myself 10 years to create and release it fully functional and at a derisory price (something around $10 or so), so that other poor people like me can have fun.
If somewhere around 2025-2030 you'll hear that a new game like Heroes has come along and which is NOT called anything related to Heroes know it's me who's done it.
Rant over. I go to sleep now. Cheers!
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 26, 2018 11:41 AM |
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You can always use Kickstarter 
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2018 11:45 AM |
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blob2 said:
You can always use Kickstarter
I guess...
Not yet, though. First, I need to have everything figured out, cause I don't work with scraps. Either I create a shock in the online gaming industry, or die unknown by anyone. Maybe that's not the right way to live your life, but that's how I am, and it's pretty hard to change. Tried it for years, and it didn't work
So, I'll work with what I have 
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 26, 2018 12:31 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 12:32, 26 Aug 2018.
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Well, there are a lot of indie developers who created games on their own with great success (Stardew Valley for instance?).
I remember reading articles about some companies based in Wroclaw which started with literally nothing (just a few guys in a small apartment) and now they're quite big game developers: Ten Square Games or T-Bull. I encourage you to search the the web for their stories (probably most articles are in polish though..) to get some inspiration.
I guess in your case you would need a game developer or two, which you would need to pay (well duh). Ideas would be you own, he/them would be the ones to "create things". Keep dreaming, keep trying and you'll get there!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 26, 2018 12:39 PM |
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monere said:
I'm piss poor and have no idea where I'll get the millions needed to employ a team to create it, and especially since I have absolutely NO talent at anything (no designing skills, no programming, no anything).
Quote:
At the right time everything will fall into place, and I'll be able to create the absolute best Heroes-like game, even better than the benchmark that is Heroes 3.
OK good luck 
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 26, 2018 02:35 PM |
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I wonder how much you could borrow from the old M&M world, lorewise, without the froggies at Ubi suing the snow out of you for copyright infringement? 
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 26, 2018 03:28 PM |
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@blob2... yeah, I know that I'll need to approach game devs. That's not the issue now, though, as I'm sure I'll find many good partners. First, I need to have the money and to have the ideas put together to form an actual game, then I'll worry about the next steps
@galaad... thanks! I actually do need luck with this one, so I hope God heard your wish
@ankvaati... yeah, that's the thing that bothers me the most, as odd as it might seem because I even don't have idea where I'll get the money from. I "feel" though that I will get the money eventually, but the copyrighting stuff irks me silently deep inside.
Whether or not this game will ever see the light of the day depends mostly on this aspect, but... we will see how things change in the next several years
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lantranar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 12:41 AM |
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monere said:
cleglaw said:
since I have absolutely NO talent at anything (no designing skills, no programming, no anything).
I'll be able to create the absolute best Heroes-like game, even better than the benchmark that is Heroes 3.
I'm giving myself 10 years to create and release it fully functional and at a derisory price (something around $10 or so), so that other poor people like me can have fun.
Im also an aspired game developer who want to revive the glory of Hmm, but my perspective is that of a graphic artist. There are a few things in your plan that I need to point out
- 10$ in 10 years would be as cheap as 5$ now. Cheaper is not better in most cases. People would think of your product as low quality instead of giving it a try, and anyone who has money to invest wouldnt bother when they see how low you price your product.
- for such low price game, you can only work alone or with a very small team, in a very short amount of time. You will never afford to drag the project for too long.
- if you intend to spend a very long time to develope it, consider doing it by yourself.
- developing a game by yourself, very often, will lead to a dead end as you dont receive enough feedback in the process.
- start learning Unity as soon as possible, it is the best tool if you are not particularly good at any department. I m using it to make prototypes here and now even if im not good at programming. It even has premade assets for you to skip steps (for example, it already has a hexagonal (or square) grid asset for you to make any heroes (or age of wonders) game you want
- again, i dont think it is the best idea to make game on your own, if you do, consider lowering the scale as much as possible. Practically no indie developer, ever, think about making a 100+ play hours for their first try. A few did succeed, but they are not good cases to follow.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 27, 2018 07:18 AM |
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Obviously, one man cannot create the art, factions, gameplay, mechanics, coding, bug-fixing, balancing and checking community feedback. Not nearly enough lifetimes for that
Monere, I can only wish you luck from the bottom of my heart. But be wary, managing all those is hard and not losing money even harder. Don't just start with the mentality that things will work themselves out, take your time and plan ahead. Talk to people, do your research. I'm sure everyone here will help as much as they are able.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 07:59 AM |
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lantranar said:
10$ in 10 years would be as cheap as 5$ now. Cheaper is not better in most cases
If a product / service is good people will talk about it and it will spread like wildfire. I don't care if $10 is cheap. Right now I want money (LOTS OF IT) because I am poor that you have no idea and I'm sick of it, but knowing myself (and I do) I know that money will not turn me into a monster. I've always believed that world would be a better place without any money at all. Besides, I'm pretty stubborn and egocentric, and when I wanna prove something I fraking prove it. And I have a feeling that if I'll ever have the millions I have and need to realize my dreams (one of which is to create the best Heroes-like game EVER), I will not even give a crap about charging any money for it. Knowing that I've been able to make such a groundbreaking game will be enough to satisfy my ego, even if it costs me my OWN money, which let's be honest, when you're filthy rich you just don't give a crap about few million EUROS/USD/whatever. Well, that's me anyway. I know that most rich people have stopped acting like humans and have become the tools of their own wealth. Not gonna happen with me... hopefully
lantranar said:
for such low price game, you can only work alone or with a very small team
which is exactly what I am having in mind. I mean, not working alone cause I'll probably never be able to complete such a project, but with a small team indeed. I don't like the idea of having a big gaming company, or something.
lantranar said:
developing a game by yourself, very often, will lead to a dead end as you dont receive enough feedback in the process.
dead end?? There is no dead end when working alone. My only ambition to see the game done is the "dead end"
lantranar said:
start learning Unity as soon as possible, it is the best tool if you are not particularly good at any department
thanks for the tip. I'm not in the mood right now to learn anything because money is my priority right now so I can move out of my parents house and have my own place where I can do whatever the hell I want, at my own pace. BUT seriously, thanks for the tip. I've always wondered how people can create such amazing games without being necessarily nerds. I guess there is an answer, after all and it's called Unity
lantranar said:
again, i dont think it is the best idea to make game on your own, if you do, consider lowering the scale as much as possible
I don't think that, either, don't worry. And I'm not lowering any scale. If you wanna accomplish something big you don't lower anything, on the contrary...
lantranar said:
Practically no indie developer, ever, think about making a 100+ play hours for their first try. A few did succeed, but they are not good cases to follow
No idea what indie developers are, but I don't care, so don't bother explaining ... All I know is that if it's written in any books that I will ever make this game stars will align perfectly me to make it. If not... well, dreams go unfulfilled all day long for all of the people of this planet, so one more lost dream won't hurt anyone. We will continue playing whatever comes around
lantranar said:
Obviously, one man cannot create the art, factions, gameplay, mechanics, coding, bug-fixing, balancing and checking community feedback. Not nearly enough lifetimes for that
Fully agree. Which is why I need the money (to employ knowledgeable people)
lantranar said:
Monere, I can only wish you luck from the bottom of my heart. But be wary, managing all those is hard and not losing money even harder. Don't just start with the mentality that things will work themselves out, take your time and plan ahead. Talk to people, do your research. I'm sure everyone here will help as much as they are able
Thank you! I know that people on this forum are quite helpful. I've noticed this since I have first joined HC many years ago. If I didn't believe that you're being nice I wouldn't have opened up like this (I am an introvert and I just don't talk to anyone about anything). Well, frankly, you're still strangers to me, but... you can hurt me less by knowing this info than some people that I won't name but are quite influential on my life, so better that I let this out on a random forum than to open up towards the wrong people and suffer another deception. You know how this goes cause you're pretty grown up yourselves
Anyway, thanks again for the encouragement, and let's hope that one day in the near future you will see a new TBS, mythological game that resemble Heroes come along and you will say towards each other "wasn't there an idiot some years ago on HC that claimed that he'll do this and that and blah blah blah?? I think I remember of someone who said that he'll make a game like Heroes, but I'm not sure... Anyway, nevermind! Let's just play cause I freaking LOVE this game. Who's the developer again?? No idea, just play!" ... That's the only thing I wanna hear if I ever create the game
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lantranar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 11:33 AM |
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monere said:
Fully agree. Which is why I need the money (to employ knowledgeable people)
Im quite like you that im prepared to spend some years of my life to make a hmm inspired game. But i have to be realistic to not rely on my own money. Meaning, I would have to build up a basic product to convince someone else to spend that money for me (hiring programmer, tester, marketing, ect) . Gaming has become a serious art form and industry world wide so the wild west age when some lone indie guy can suddenly become succesful is over. Now everything is about statistics and business science.
It kinda scares me as im have been working on this career for a while. Any way, good luck with your dream tho, you ll need a lot of it.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 27, 2018 12:26 PM |
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 12:44 PM |
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@lantranar... Thanks buddy! Luck is truly what I need most right now
I would also like to mention that gaming may have become an art form, but.. this doesn't hold true with TBS games... actually, with any game, not just TBS. Even today people are still playing Diablo 2 and Heroes 2/3 instead of the newer, more artistic and cooler Diablo 3 and Heroes 6/7. Why? Because they are better than their newer versions, which means people appreciate quality before graphics, even moreso with TBS games. And quality is what I'm after, not flashy graphics which I honestly, genuinely am NOT a fan of.
Also, I don't need to convince anyone of anything. If/when the complete product is truly complete in my mind and on paper I will only need to have the money ready so I can pay people to make my creation real, and if I tell them what to do with very clear details and instructions, and pay them, convincing is not needed.
As for marketing, I told you that this is a dream of mine, I don't care too much whether or not the entire world will embrace it. If I ever manage to put it together and post it here for free - and if it's really good, obviously - I'm sure within an year it will be shared among thousands or hundreds of thousands of people. Word of mouth beats marketing 100% of the time when the "advertised" product is top notch
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lantranar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 02:27 PM |
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monere said:
I would also like to mention that gaming may have become an art form, but.. this doesn't hold true with TBS games... actually, with any game, not just TBS. Even today people are still playing Diablo 2 and Heroes 2/3 instead of the newer, more artistic and cooler Diablo 3 and Heroes 6/7. Why? Because they are better than their newer versions, which means people appreciate quality before graphics, even moreso with TBS games. And quality is what I'm after, not flashy graphics which I honestly, genuinely am NOT a fan of.
Also, I don't need to convince anyone of anything. If/when the complete product is truly complete in my mind and on paper I will only need to have the money ready so I can pay people to make my creation real, and if I tell them what to do with very clear details and instructions, and pay them, convincing is not needed.
well, we do have more in common than i thought.
Part of the reason why many game devs refuse to remake- remaster old games is because they have grown too big to make a profit out of it. Therefore, you will never see Ubisoft doing so and admitting that all of their newer iterations are failures. Therefore, if anyone can revive Hmm, it has to be from smaller devs with completely new IPs.
I like Hideo Kojima approach, which relies on programmer to make a highly detailed editor/engine and than fully take control of game designing/level designing himself.
With Unity I can buy/ make separated asset and coooperate with one or a few programmers to patch them together so this way is not too far off. However, I would not want to copy H2 and H3 tho, as many gameplay elements has become quite outdated. Instead, including an editor or mod manager that allow anyone to mod your game back to any Hmm version they want (jsut like Warcraft 3 and starcraft editor) would be the best way to go
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 02:44 PM |
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Oh man. So I guess daydreaming is the future of Heroes. I sincerely hope you put together what you have in mind, but ideas and good intentions never made a game, people did. And we've had people with more than just passion trying to bring about the next Heroes breakthrough and failed. Saying it's not easy wouldn't even begin to cover the reality of it.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 02:45 PM |
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Edited by monere at 14:48, 27 Aug 2018.
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lantranar said:
Part of the reason why many game devs refuse to remake- remaster old games is because they have grown too big to make a profit out of it. Therefore, you will never see Ubisoft doing so and admitting that all of their newer iterations are failures. Therefore, if anyone can revive Hmm, it has to be from smaller devs with completely new IPs
Yes, yes, and yes. Agree with all 3 statements
lantranar said:
With Unity I can buy/ make separated asset and coooperate with one or a few programmers to patch them together so this way is not too far off.
Cool (I mean it). It definitely looks like the way to go
lantranar said:
However, I would not want to copy H2 and H3 tho, as many gameplay elements has become quite outdated.
My thoughts exactly. I freaking LOVE Heroes 3, but I don't want my game to be a H3 clone for 2 reasons: 1) I feel capable of creating something better than Heroes 3, and 2) it's not fair to Heroes 3 to be plagiarized. That game's so good that it deserves to be unique
lantranar said:
Instead, including an editor or mod manager that allow anyone to mod your game back to any Hmm version they want...
I actually don't want anyone to mod my game to whatever they want. I told you that I'm selfish, and I wanna get all of the glory that comes from my own creation ... That being said, I will probably make the game moddable (whatever that entitles). Actually, I'm not sure I'm gonna make it moddable, but I'm sure I won't mind if people find a way to mod it, because I realize that eventually it will come to that, as well. So, why oppose it? My belief, however, is that I create something really good it won't need modding. And let's be honest, if my game will be better than Heroes 3 it will take at least a decade for it to be modded. I don't think Heroes 3 has been modded sooner than that, has it?? Still... modding is the least of my concerns right now as everything is just theory and writing on a forum. It's a long way to go until I see my creation alive... if at all.
Good luck with your game, though. As much as I like Heroes 3 I still feel the need to play other games occasionally, so yours is welcome
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 02:50 PM |
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Daydreaming is the only thing I'm good at, so let me daydream
Stevie said:
Oh man. So I guess daydreaming is the future of Heroes. I sincerely hope you put together what you have in mind, but ideas and good intentions never made a game, people did. And we've had people with more than just passion trying to bring about the next Heroes breakthrough and failed. Saying it's not easy wouldn't even begin to cover the reality of it.
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bitmaid
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2018 11:51 PM |
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Jesus Christ dude. I almost feel foolish for taking this seriously but just in case there are lurkers like you out there, it doesn't work that way. I'm not surprised there are so many "vision guys" for fan-made spinoff, after all the vision of the franchise is in question here.
But you can't expect to be the vision guy and raise other people's money to pay for your vision's materialization. No big investor is going to touch a gaming startup at all w/o proprietary tech because games is such a hit-or-miss let alone such a project. So you can forget about hiring top talent.
For any fan-made project to succeed there has to be collaboration. People who go on Kickstarter or Indiegogo mostly accept that they won't have a salary, they're using the platform first and foremost, believe it or not, for exposure and interest.
If anyone has an idea or ambition, at least do what lantranar did and put together a presentable treatment. Sometimes it's all luck if someone clicks with your idea & wants to come onboard. Without a doubt, however, there will be compromise. At the end of the day everybody has to bring something to the table while agreeing on a direction to go with. The community certainly knows the franchise better than Ubisoft, but I doubt even the community can agree on how some of the key aspects of the game should be.
A part of me really wants to see a revival of the franchise in the hands of the fans, and I might've been daydreaming as well, but the other part of me sees the trend in today's gaming and honestly I don't see anything interesting or promising at all, and that in itself is an actual nightmare.
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 28, 2018 07:19 AM |
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 28, 2018 08:17 AM |
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Edited by monere at 08:19, 28 Aug 2018.
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bitmaid said:
But you can't expect to be the vision guy and raise other people's money to pay for your vision's materialization.
The worst case scenario is that I present my game concepts (after everything is put together, obviously) to Ubisoft or other big game developers and if they find value in it (they will, because I'm not a middle way guy. I either create / do something groundbreaking, or don't do anything at all... which is why I probably live in poverty and mediocrity LOL) and will agree to fund my project
But, as I've said many times on this thread, I don't even intend to raise any money. I intend to fund this with from my OWN pocket, and if I'm in the mood I will even make it free for everyone, despite its sheer value. Like I've said, my ego is bigger than my greed, and seeing every expert jaw's drop at how awesome I am satisfies me more than being stupidly filthy rich
bitmaid said:
So you can forget about hiring top talent
Not only top talent is good at creating something. There's so many people on this planet that never see the light of success in their work and are willing to create something sensational (motivated people that is) that would be a shame not to hire these young guns. My plan is to employ EXACTLY these guys, which let's be honest, are not even asking for the high salaries that established devs ask for
bitmaid said:
Sometimes it's all luck if someone clicks with your idea & wants to come onboard
Um... if I pay someone to design / program something for me they don't have to click with anything. If they want / like / need money, and if that's their job they will do it. Them, or someone else, If I give them clear, detailed instructions on which colour I want the sinister to be, or how intense a sword relic needs to vibrate when the hero equips it... they will do exactly as I say. They have no reasons to debate me because they're making MY project live the way I pay them to do. This is happening all day long in any business, so it's not debatable
bitmaid said:
At the end of the day everybody has to bring something to the table while agreeing on a direction to go with.
Not with my game. Again, I am freaking EGOCENTRICAL and stubborn, and it's either MY vision, or no vision at all. The others can bring they money and designing / programming skills to the table, and that's about it. I don't need their ideas for MY project.
bitmaid said:
but the other part of me sees the trend in today's gaming and honestly I don't see anything interesting or promising at all
yeah... 
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This thread is pages long: 
