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| Thread: France: Call for murder during a street prayer |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Galaad
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Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 27, 2017 11:00 AM |
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France: Call for murder during a street prayer
Just a few days ago, near Paris.
Out of the 6200+ verses that contains the Quran, the one leading the prayer here is apparently using the terrorists' all-times favorite verse. This verse is the last thing many Christians heard before getting killed.
Quote:
Indeed, the number of months with Allah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion, so do not wrong yourselves during them. And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous [who fear Him].
I put the emphasis on 'collectively' here, as it makes no distinction between the culprit and the innocent, no matter if woman, child, even someone defending Islam while not being Muslim her/himself. Sorry if I misspell, I don't know Arab at all, 'Kafa', a recurrent term in execution videos from ISIS.
Also the word 'fight' here, as translation seems not exactly accurate. In English or in French, 'fight' can have many meanings, like an intellectual fight for instance. But the original Arab word -sorry again if I misspell- 'Katilou', is explicitly used to express a fight with blood, fire, death, from what I've been told.
Here is another video, along many others, featuring terrorists using the same verse (Abu Wahib group, 2013. At 3mn44, you will hear terrorists citing that same verse).
The actual verse: https://quran.com/9/36.
What to think of this exactly? Am I wrong in my interpretation and being a paranoid nutthead, or is this really serious?
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Kipshasz
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posted September 27, 2017 11:17 AM |
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Mon ami, France is effed in the holes possible, impossible ones too.
This is the multiculturalism at work. you have people crushed under trucks driven by a "peaceful" immigrants. you have ISIS sympathysers everywhere. this radical islam is ideologically opposite to what we call "western values".
And let's not forget the so called "jungle" camp near Calais. How long it took to dismantle it again?
You're not paranoid. this is only going to get worse.
Better get a gun buddy. Or go East, to Poland.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Ebonheart
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Rush the rush
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posted September 27, 2017 11:30 AM |
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Blizzardboy
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posted September 27, 2017 11:44 AM |
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Galaad said:
Just a few days ago, near Paris.
Out of the 6200+ verses that contains the Quran, the one leading the prayer here is apparently using the terrorists' all-times favorite verse. This verse is the last thing many Christians heard before getting killed.
Quote:
Indeed, the number of months with Allah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion, so do not wrong yourselves during them. And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous [who fear Him].
I put the emphasis on 'collectively' here, as it makes no distinction between the culprit and the innocent, no matter if woman, child, even someone defending Islam while not being Muslim her/himself. Sorry if I misspell, I don't know Arab at all, 'Kafa', a recurrent term in execution videos from ISIS.
Also the word 'fight' here, as translation seems not exactly accurate. In English or in French, 'fight' can have many meanings, like an intellectual fight for instance. But the original Arab word -sorry again if I misspell- 'Katilou', is explicitly used to express a fight with blood, fire, death, from what I've been told.
Here is another video, along many others, featuring terrorists using the same verse (Abu Wahib group, 2013. At 3mn44, you will hear terrorists citing that same verse).
The actual verse: https://quran.com/9/36.
What to think of this exactly? Am I wrong in my interpretation and being a paranoid nutthead, or is this really serious?
It's a relatively modern change of ethics to make such strong distinctions between soldier, worker, and even to some extent children. It was always intuitively understood - even common sense - that all of the above are contributing to any war effort. The "civilians" supply the food, resources, and industry to send the actual feet and hands into combat, and since the vast majority of armies historically relied on non-professional armies, the "civilian" population was readily converted into military, or the military converted into civilian when they were inactive. From ancient antiquity it was always standard procedure to sack a city once it was conquered, and that always involved some level of "civilian" deaths (again, strong distinctions between soldier and civilian are a more modern concept). If the invaders planned on staying and inhabitating the terrirory, it probably wouldnt be a complete massacre. In other cases it would be. In the socio-political climate of most of recorded history, battles involved one nation/tribe pitting against another, and that meant the entire people acting as one and sharing the shame or glory as one
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Salamandre
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posted September 27, 2017 12:41 PM |
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Galaad said:
being a paranoid nutthead, or is this really serious?
Beating a dead horse. All those guys should be put in prison or fined until they starve, praying in the streets is illegal; also try to do that as christian in their countries and see what happens. Then of course you're paranoid, is not like the last 156784 worldwide terrorist acts were performed in the name of Islam, how you even dare to make such random assumptions? It was Buddhists. Or Potatoists, don't remember.
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Maurice
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Part of the furniture
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posted September 27, 2017 03:52 PM |
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As long as the Western world (or at least its political leadership) continues to tolerate intolerance, it is busy digging its own grave. Tolerance for intolerance is suicidal in the end.
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Kipshasz
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posted September 27, 2017 06:43 PM |
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Maurice said:
As long as the Western world (or at least its political leadership) continues to tolerate intolerance, it is busy digging its own grave. Tolerance for intolerance is suicidal in the end.
France is, at this rate, becoming the third Somalia of Europe.
The first is Sweden, the Second is Ukraine ,although only neocons, former commies and their sheeple give a damn about the latter.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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tSar-Ivor
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posted September 27, 2017 08:25 PM |
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It's pretty funny how I can almost immediately tell who is Hungarian/Eastern European simply by their work ethic (not that they all have it mind you, but it's definately cultural). Contrast that to the Brits is like night and day difference, multiculturalism sucks because we're so frigging backward on the basics, which won't be fixed by propping up borders and immigration (Indians here have demonstrated how superior the culture without resulting in any militancy, Muslims are different and I wouldn't say for the worse).
Like here we have people complaining about Muslim communities dominating and overtaking Brit ones (again Indians have done the same for decades/centuries now, difference is their culture is far superior to both Muslim and Brit ones and are less confrontational). The reason eastern europeans are being hired isn't for cheap labour (that is part of it), but their work ethic is again day and night difference to Brits, for instance ask a Hungarian/Romanian/Polak etc how they regard work, and they'll reply 'a person who has work should count their blessings'. Ask a Brit and all they do is whine and complain (aye they are legitimate at times but seriously it's constant whinging n whining).
Luckily for me I got the best of both worlds, a solid Hungarian work ethic combined with British nationality and upbringing (which means I'm considered 'one of us' by both groups thanks to fluency in both heritages).
Long story short, the solution is to completely revive British/French/German (though the latter two are not as weak as the first) cultures, completely jump start the whole system along similar lines from bottom up (starting with individual relations on a nuclear level then communities then regions). Proper upbringing is essential, pampering or downright neglecting are the two extremes we jump between (to give you an idea, working for a British boss it's all about just going at it till you collapse, Hungarian one says when I asked him about what pace to work at and he replies "you know yourself best, work as hard as you can but remember that you have to be fit for tomorrow as well". It's rational and balanced, we need to restore genuine intelligence (my grandfather only had 3 years of schooling and he was respected for his solid personality and attitude due respect for everyone).
We need something of the same, at this rate Brits are going to be left in the dirt and they're feeling it heavily, so they're doing the number 1 dumbass' solution, blame everything except yourself.
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Salamandre
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posted September 27, 2017 08:49 PM |
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Maurice said:
intolerance
Intolerance is a made up concept people use in order to advance their own political agenda by restricting other people's rights to live as they wish. There is not precise meaning of it, there is no optimal country in the world from which to learn "tolerance". Those who prone "tolerance" have no realistic example to give except their utopia world they would dream of. In reality out there, every individual has its own tolerance limits, once they break, there is no way to force him to accept anymore.
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Maurice
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posted September 27, 2017 11:30 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Maurice said:
intolerance
Intolerance is a made up concept people use in order to advance their own political agenda by restricting other people's rights to live as they wish.
I disagree. Tolerance is in accepting other people for who they are, without infringing on their beliefs and freedom, as long as those beliefs and freedom don't restrict that of others. I don't mind muslims following islam, just don't bother me with it. That includes not threatening to take my head off for not believing, because that infringes on my rights to be as I am and think what I want.
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Blizzardboy
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posted September 28, 2017 12:06 AM |
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Orthodox Islam only executes people who apostasize, but anyway, like I said a few posts up, it's an ethical model that is very different from how a contemporary European government would work, and it always has been. Harmony between those two worlds was never possible. Orthodox Islam must be intolerant towards you because it is morally necessary in its model, and the same is true for the French government (i.e. it cannot permit Muslim courts to execute other citizens who apostasize... among other things... without compromising its own laws). The two models are logically incompatible and cannot coexist under one cohesive government.
I believe intolerant, or 'hateful speech' should be lawfully permitted and groups allowed to publically assembly, despite the fact that those group would not allow the reverse if they were in power. Direct threats or inciting violence should not be. Needless to say, there can be a fine line between the two and leaves plenty of work for lawyers and juries.
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Salamandre
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posted September 28, 2017 12:35 AM |
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Maurice said:
Tolerance is in accepting other people for who they are, without infringing on their beliefs and freedom, as long as those beliefs and freedom don't restrict that of others.
This is double edged and will never work with invasive ideologies as Islam -are there any others? They use exactly your argument to slowly infiltrate and change our society to what they like -and so far all polls show that WE don't like it that way. I am not at all bothered if they practice their ideology in their lands and I even respect it, but when you move abroad, you should abide new ideas, practices and habits. If you don't, people will always consider you as a foreigner/outsider while nobody but you is to blame.
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artu
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posted September 28, 2017 02:02 AM |
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Edited by artu at 03:11, 28 Sep 2017.
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Well, not all Muslims are strictly devoted and place religion at the center of their lives, Sal. To some of them, it's mostly about saying a few prayers over father's grave and not eating pork etc. But those are not the ones you'll notice out on the street. Also, if we're talking about the ideology, Islamists not Muslims in general, how is it ok, even respected in "their" own lands? That's like saying it's ok to be a Nazi in Germany. Is it okay if Iranian Islamists oppress Iranians because people in there are born in an historically Muslim country?
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Tsar-ivor
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posted September 28, 2017 08:50 AM |
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It's not about whether i's ok or not artu, that's a hypothetical question along idealistic lines. It's about the resources you have at your disposal and the most effective way to deploy it, human rights is a Western idea that's still a good way from being wholly integrated in developed W. countries.
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Salamandre
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posted September 28, 2017 09:02 AM |
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Another deadly argument: because not all are like that, let's do nothing. But same goes about Germans, how many of them physically murdered someone? probably none, except the army and some zealous Nazi officials, yet they voted, elected and supported the guys doing that. About respect, I respect the choice of the majority, I made it clear over time. They want nazism, let they have nazism, just don't impose to others, and goes same same for islamism, comunism, polpotism or any other religion/ideology, including our "democracy" which doesn't have to be pulled on their throats.
Each country, category of people or individuals must fight their own demons in order to find their path and create their future. History teaches us that such choices can't be forced upon conflicts, they reset anyway.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 28, 2017 12:06 PM |
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Migratory policy is an economic bargain to maintain a social precariousness. We end up paying for the problems of cultural diversities and the conflicts they accentuate. We are not going to make the trial of Islam in this thread, but just to see that the encouraged, subsidised wahhabism, that is an utterly radical reading of the Quran is sadly spreading more and more. To our muslim brothers besotted of peace and tolerance, of knowledge, the bigots and furious are growing from everywhere.
Today, the money coming from gas and oil to the service of this doctrine determines the chaos we are in and in subsidised imams and mosques by this flow leads to this fanaticism. The consequences of todays' attentats are a logical consequence of that logic of terror that will allow for profitable wars where the economic stakes take precedence over anything else. The ignorance and our fear as compost first fertile to these manipulations. The paradox of this video where the French State is protecting those who will kill without discernment is an aberration of our modernity.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 28, 2017 12:13 PM |
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@tsar
... and democracy is an idea from Ancient Greece, things spread. I am not suggesting that human rights exit as some external reality out of its historical context but to consider the idea only executable in Western nations and to say "you even respect human rights violations in other places" is something else. It's not like properly educated people are making deliberate choices and voting for sharia law everywhere in the Middle East. And it's not like this is all about internal politics, when you look at pictures from Iran or Afghanistan in mid 20th century before Islamism was supported as an instrument to fight communism, you see the social standards were much more developed than ttoday. Things can change really fast, culture is of course important but its not static. I personally experience this in my own country, if we had 10 percent of the country as strict Islamists before Erdogan, it must be at least 20 percent now, politics has its own vacuum.
@Sal
Well, the context here isnt invading other countries but immigrants, so what is it you are supporting here exactly? Racial profiling of all immigrants from Muslim countries?
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Salamandre
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posted September 28, 2017 12:19 PM |
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Racial? This is not about race, but about culture, another slip in order to shut solutions. Yes, full stop of immigration from muslim countries, don't we think we have enough of them and do we really believe such immigration -on a mass scale- is positive?
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artu
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posted September 28, 2017 12:39 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:40, 28 Sep 2017.
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Well, the thing is technically called "racial profiling." I am not suggesting you to support mass immigration from Muslim countries or defending that myself. You turn every argument into the same one about mass immigration, here is the summary here:
- Look these Muslims are praying for war on the streets.
- Intolerance shouldnt be tolerated
- Tolerance is an empty concept anyway.
- No, tolerance is important and should be supported if people dont violate your own freedom.
- That's how they are using things against you. It's invasive.
- Islamism is invasive, not all Muslims are Islamists.
- So we should have mass immigration?
What I'm saying is Maurice is correct, tolerance to Muslims respecting secular law is not a bad thing and it is not an empty concept.
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Salamandre
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posted September 28, 2017 12:51 PM |
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Is not empty but is doesn't apply in this case, because common sense leaved behind the door when religion knocks in. A muslim asking for halal meat, asking for facilities in its company in order to pray or have religious vacations, asking for permission to not shake opposite sex hands, asking that Islamophobia should be considered a crime, asking for freedom to wear any clothes he/she may like, is considered a muslim respecting the secular laws, yet such few choices make a difference when trying to integrate and create a lot of discomfort for others. Then every religious step the west accepts, is a step towards radicalization.
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