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| Thread: A different formula for damaging spells? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 27, 2019 08:59 PM |
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A different formula for damaging spells?
In Heroes 3 most spells benefit greatly from being mastered by a magic school, for example Haste, Resurrection or Berserk.
But what about damage spells, Hypnotize and Animate Dead, they benefit very little from magic schools. They have the same power modifier at all levels and only gains and small bonus with magic school mastery. I suppose it is'nt possible to set different power modifiers for Basic/Advanced/Expert? or somehow create some greater difference between for example Basic Meteor Shower and Expert Meteor Shower?
I don't really like how you can spam stuff like Armageddon, Implosion, Chain Lightning and Meteor Shower and cast it just as well without any magic school.
Let's say you have Expert Earth Magic and Expert Water Magic, yet you spam Chain Lightning constantly because you have the Air Orb, but no Air Magic. Suddenly Earth and Water seems useless, while you spam an Air spell and you don't even have Air Magic, it makes no sense to me.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted November 27, 2019 11:19 PM |
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Wow, you found out why all latter versions of Heroes tied the spells to each magic school and dismissed Wisdom all along.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 28, 2019 02:22 AM |
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So instead of Magic Arrow causing ((Power x 10) + 10/10/20/30) damage, it will instead cause ((Power x 10) + 10)/((Power x 11) + 15)/((Power x 12) + 20)/((Power x 13) + 25) Damage?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 28, 2019 07:19 AM |
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@Bloodsucker Well looks like later games actually did something better than H3 after all, huh?
@Matt Magic Arrow was the worst possible example you could find and of course you had to use that. 
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted November 28, 2019 07:20 AM |
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phoenix4ever said:
I suppose it is'nt possible to set different power modifiers for Basic/Advanced/Expert?me.
Of course its possible.
MattII said:
So instead of Magic Arrow causing ((Power x 10) + 10/10/20/30) damage, it will instead cause ((Power x 10) + 10)/((Power x 11) + 15)/((Power x 12) + 20)/((Power x 13) + 25) Damage?
Yes, thats what he means and for some spells like Ice Bolt or Ice Ring it would be interesting. Or water spells could reduce the speed of units by 1 (maybe once per battle and creature).
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 28, 2019 07:24 AM |
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RerryR said:
Of course its possible.
How? Not in sptraits.txt, maybe by hex editing?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 28, 2019 07:56 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:00, 28 Nov 2019.
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phoenix4ever said:
@Bloodsucker Well looks like later games actually did something better than H3 after all, huh?
@Matt Magic Arrow was the worst possible example you could find and of course you had to use that.
You were talking about damage spells. In that regard, Magic Arrow is as viable an example as Lightning Bolt or Implosion.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted November 28, 2019 08:44 AM |
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Edited by RerryR at 08:48, 28 Nov 2019.
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phoenix4ever said:
RerryR said:
Of course its possible.
How? Not in sptraits.txt, maybe by hex editing?
Since HotA managed to add a new town I would assume its rather an easy task to manipulate spell damage.
Can only show you in ERM, which is of little use for you.
Judging your persistent eagerness to customize your H3 game I still think you are using the wrong platform. So much more possibilities with ERA and VCMI, I wonder what great modifications you would have brought to our community if you had used these platforms, but I guess we will never know 
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 28, 2019 12:19 PM |
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Well actually I don't know much about ERM, ERA or VCMI and I don't really feeling like learning any of it. So I'll stick with HotA and HD Mod, now if at least HD Mod still supported plug-ins there would be some possibilities.
Yeah I like to customize a lot, but also just brainstorm, discuss ideas and generally just think about the game and gameplay balance.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 28, 2019 12:23 PM |
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MattII said:
You were talking about damage spells. In that regard, Magic Arrow is as viable an example as Lightning Bolt or Implosion.
Yeah you just made it sound like there was very little difference and what I want is a bigger difference. Imagine going from Basic to Expert Slow, Expert is 14 times better than Basic! It does'nt need to be that extreme, but you get the idea.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted November 28, 2019 01:35 PM |
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I would rather split Mass spells from their basic ones(mass slow as level 3 ) rather then level 1 + expert earth.
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TheSamaritan
Hired Hero
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posted November 28, 2019 03:13 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Well actually I don't know much about ERM, ERA or VCMI and I don't really feeling like learning any of it. So I'll stick with HotA and HD Mod, now if at least HD Mod still supported plug-ins there would be some possibilities.
Yeah I like to customize a lot, but also just brainstorm, discuss ideas and generally just think about the game and gameplay balance.
You should learn more about them.You will realise modding inst that hard and this could open more oppurtunities for you.Who know maybe one day we will have "Rebalaced spells mod" by phoenix4ever. 
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GaĻa be with you.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 28, 2019 03:20 PM |
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TheSamaritan said:
maybe one day we will have "Rebalaced spells mod" by phoenix4ever.
Currently that mod is exclusive to me and my friends, but you never know. I have already documented all (most) of my changes here on HC though.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 28, 2019 03:21 PM |
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zmudziak22 said:
I would rather split Mass spells from their basic ones(mass slow as level 3 ) rather then level 1 + expert earth.
Yes if only I knew how to do that. 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 28, 2019 07:23 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 19:23, 28 Nov 2019.
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phoenix4ever said:
MattII said:
You were talking about damage spells. In that regard, Magic Arrow is as viable an example as Lightning Bolt or Implosion.
Yeah you just made it sound like there was very little difference and what I want is a bigger difference. Imagine going from Basic to Expert Slow, Expert is 14 times better than Basic! It does'nt need to be that extreme, but you get the idea.
Look at my example. With the old system, the damage is:
No skill, 3 SP - 40 Damage
Basic Skill, 5 SP - 60 Damage
Advanced Skill, 8 SP - 100 Damage
Expert Skill, 12 SP - 150 Damage
With my new formulas it's now:
No skill, 3 SP - 40 Damage
Basic Skill, 5 SP - 70 Damage (17% increase)
Advanced Skill, 8 SP - 116 Damage (16% increase)
Expert Skill, 12 SP - 181 Damage (21% increase)
Okay, I guess it doesn't seem like much, but you get the idea You can also change the numbers a bit, make each advancing level +2 spell power (so [[power x 12/14/16] + X]), that would given you:
No skill, 3 SP - 40 Damage
Basic Skill, 5 SP - 75 Damage (25% increase)
Advanced Skill, 8 SP - 127 Damage (27% increase)
Expert Skill, 12 SP - 217 Damage (45% increase)
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 28, 2019 08:17 PM |
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Okay sorry if I misunderstood you and thanks for the idea, I don't know how to implement it though.
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted November 28, 2019 11:32 PM |
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How do you feel about this idea of mine:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&PID=1458804#focus
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 29, 2019 07:44 AM |
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Spell duration?
Yeah currently it is very easy to get spells to last an eternity. Especially for spells like Blind, Mass Slow, Haste and Prayer that seems like too much.
I think I would like a system where
Unskilled/Basic is Power/3 (rounded down)
Advanced is Power/2 (rounded down)
Expert is Power/1
Maybe also another /1.5 or /2 for Blind and the most powerful mass spells or something like that...
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2019 05:01 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
, Hypnotize
Hey Phoenix4Ever, I have an idea for hypnotise spell.
instead of hypnotise controlling the whole stack, it should control some of the stack (the stack will split)
so if my Hero power can control 250 HP, and im playing vs 100 Pikeman,
then I should be able to cast on pikeman.
Result: Pikeman stack will reduce to 75, and new 25PikemanStack will spawn next to it, controlled by me.
that would make hypnotise a little more useful lategame when everyone is massing everything, dont you agree?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 29, 2019 05:47 PM |
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Well it's a good idea Orc, I have no idea how to do that though.
Power x 25 is also VERY low for an expensive level 3 spell, it's Power x 40 and a lot cheaper in my game, which makes it okay-ish, but Blind is still a hundred times better though.
I often think about making Blind level 3 and Hypnotize level 2, that would make a lot more sense imo.
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