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Thread: Archery for which towns? | This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 06, 2020 08:13 AM |
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Archery for which towns?
Which towns would you choose Archery for? Or is Archery even worth picking at all? (Assume a Castle army is only based on Castle creatures etc.)
This would be my list:
Castle: Maybe.
Rampart: No.
Tower: Yes.
Inferno: No.
Necropolis: No.
Dungeon: Maybe.
Stronghold: Maybe.
Fortress: No.
Conflux: No. (Storm and Ice Elementals takes double damage from certain spells and can't be resurrected.)
Cove: Maybe.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2020 08:40 AM |
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Which town has strong shooters?
Castle? Yes!
Tower yes yes yes!
Dungeon yes!
Sronghold?
Conflux yes! Why not? Two shooters. Rather strong. Especialy storm el.
Cove? Rather yes. With ammo card.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 06, 2020 09:39 AM |
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Baronus why do you say Stronghold: ?
Is it because cyclops are hard to build?, well they are in SoD, but not in HotA.
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sirironfist
Known Hero
King of the ogres
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posted April 06, 2020 10:20 AM |
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I'm currently experimenting around with Pyre and archery for her ballista. What do you guys think about the combo of ballista speciality and archery?
Grand elves die too quickly and so do zealots, marksmen and liches. Although liches can wreak a lot of havoc, so I wouldn't necessarily say no to archery for necro. So necro, castle and rampart maybe.
Stronghold I'd say yes.
Conflux maybe. I use those two shooters mostly as canon fodder so that the important part of my army remains intact. You could even make a good case for not upgrading air elementals at all.
Dungeon yes. Two really good shooters. Would actually work as a 100% melee army as well, now that we can use shooters in melee.
Cove yes.
Tower of course.
Fortress no.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2020 10:34 AM |
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Yes strongold because orcs are weak and we have cyclop cave bug 20 cristals! Copy paste from H2 where cyclop is top unit but in H3 not. Yes if we correct building cost to10,10 good to have archery.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 06, 2020 06:47 PM |
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The rules of the spirit game. I guess so, because I've stumbled from the skill distributor. I know possibilities like my own pocket. It gave me to think largest strategy.
Castle:
Knight learns/needs Archery
Cleric learns/needs Archery (even if thelazy says Cleric would get a Ballistics, but I never bumped a offer)
Rampart:
Ranger learns/needs Archery
Druid learns/needs Archery
Tower:
Wizard learns/needs Archery (even if thelazy says Wizard has lower possibility to learn skill, but if you've bumped into skills are almost a full skills, you tried to get the best skill that why a tight, but skill distributor offers Archery to you, for example)
Inferno:
Demoniac learns/needs Archery
Necropolis:
Death Knight learns/needs Archery
Necromancer learns/needs Archery (as Wizard)
Dungeon:
Overlord learns/needs Archery
Stronghold:
Barbarian learns/needs Archery
Fortress:
Beastmaster learns/needs Archery
Conflux:
Planeswalker learns/needs Archery
Cove:
?
And my strategy
Castle: Yes
Rampart: Voluntary form
Tower: Yes
Inferno: No
Necropolis: Yes
Dungeon: Yes
Stronghold: Yes
Fortress: No
Conflux: Yes
..maybe you've found my weak strategy, while opponent attacks city, and opponent takes Titan, for example. But I'm not always used a full pure alliance troops. So my archery like Titans are weak, if I'm Inferno team, because I rejected a skill, for example. Before I played Archery skill with in all alliance. Last year I changed strategy, because I read here.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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FirePaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 06, 2020 07:38 PM |
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Tower totally needs it, that's for sure. You can wreck armies with 150% damage Titans and Archmagi.
Edit: To be honest, phoenix4ever said it himself: Tower yes, some others maybe and others not.
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Kerebron
Tavern Dweller
The Beholder
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posted April 07, 2020 03:37 PM |
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Edited by Kerebron at 15:38, 07 Apr 2020.
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My preferences look like this:
Castle: Yes.
Rampart: Yes.
Tower: Yes.
Inferno: Rather not.
Necropolis: Rather yes. (especially with "The Cloak" )
Dungeon: Yes.
Stronghold: Yes.
Fortress: Mostly not.
Conflux: Yes.
Cove: I don't play HotA.
That would be for main heroes, who usually include shooters in their armies. Secondary offensive heroes (clearing mines, creature dwellings, resource banks, etc.) should do fine without Archery, for most cases.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2020 04:25 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
This would be my list:
Castle: Maybe.
Rampart: No.
Tower: Yes.
Inferno: No.
Necropolis: No.
Dungeon: Maybe.
Stronghold: Maybe.
Fortress: No.
Conflux: No. (Storm and Ice Elementals takes double damage from certain spells and can't be resurrected.)
Cove: Maybe.
I think this is good rule of thumb list for casual play, with two changes:
Rampart -> Most likely yes. Rangers will like you to learn it anyway, and if you pick it early, the grand elves will carry you even harder.
Conflux -> Most likely yes. Storm elementals have various weaknesses, but I would say way around 90% of time you're fighting against creatures against the map, where their weakness to lightning bolt or curse is unnoticeable, and you have the change of casting bless on them as well. Because of this, Air elementals are the best tier 2 creature and while Water ellies are very good tier 3 creatures, too, your shooters will carry your early game hard, and thus having them deal 50% more is worth a slot in my books.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 07, 2020 09:58 PM |
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You guys are more positive towards Archery than I thought.
I mean it's not a bad skill, but often I can't really fit Archery on a main hero, there are simply more important skills to take.
I mean if I had a 10 skill limit, I would probably choose it more often, more not so much currently. I consider Offense and Armorer way more important combat skills.
Of course if I get the Golden Bow early, with at least two decent shooters, that might change my mind.
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FirePaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 07, 2020 10:39 PM |
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phoenix4ever said: You guys are more positive towards Archery than I thought.
I mean it's not a bad skill, but often I can't really fit Archery on a main hero, there are simply more important skills to take.
I mean if I had a 10 skill limit, I would probably choose it more often, more not so much currently. I consider Offense and Armorer way more important combat skills.
Of course if I get the Golden Bow early, with at least two decent shooters, that might change my mind.
That's why only Tower is a 100% "yes" in most cases, in my opinion (and yours, as it seems, of course). The other towns are just entirely situational.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2020 10:43 PM |
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phoenix4ever said: You guys are more positive towards Archery than I thought.
I mean it's not a bad skill, but often I can't really fit Archery on a main hero, there are simply more important skills to take.
I mean if I had a 10 skill limit, I would probably choose it more often, more not so much currently. I consider Offense and Armorer way more important combat skills.
Of course if I get the Golden Bow early, with at least two decent shooters, that might change my mind.
Well, ofc it depends on many factors, I would say archery tends to be worse on bigger maps. On smaller/quicker maps thou, the 50% more dmg is a lot, so if you can somehow justify it, I would say then go for it.
IMO Archery is probably the best designed skill in the game. Sometimes it's exactly what you need, and can lead you to great things, sometimes it's very bad and unnecessary - player has to know when to pick it. There are a lot of things that are somewhat "mandatory" in this game, and it takes away player's on creativity and hero building, which I value highly when we're talking about a game with RPG elements. I'm really really waiting Hota to make some of the worse skills meaningful.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 07, 2020 11:09 PM |
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Hourglass said: I'm really really waiting Hota to make some of the worse skills meaningful.
That we can totally agree on.
More choices is always a good thing and it is kinda boring always being forced to pick Logistics, Earth Magic, Wisdom, Offense and Armorer. And Air Magic if DD is allowed at more than 1 cast per day.
Then there are only two skills left, which could be two your hero starts with, which means 0 free skill slots.
I would really like a 10 skill limit and Market of Time as well.
Edit: If we take a look at Ajit and Kalt we can see that these two could perhaps be good with Archery. But they already have Leadership and Resistance or Tactics and Learning, then they need Offense, Armorer, Logistics, Wisdom, Earth Magic and another magic school, which means they have no room for Archery at all.
I was considering if heroes like Ajit, Yog, Lacus and Kalt and maybe also magic heroes like Ingham (and Casmetra in HotA) should start with Archery, probably not Theodorus as that could be too much...
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2020 10:42 AM |
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Why would this depend that much on your starting town? What kind of games do you play where your army is predominantly comprised of troops from your starting town?
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FirePaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 08, 2020 11:14 AM |
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gatecrasher said: Why would this depend that much on your starting town? What kind of games do you play where your army is predominantly comprised of troops from your starting town?
Random maps, maps, etc. I usually play long maps, because short maps are... short. And usually I don't want to "switch" factions when I play with another faction. That doesn't mean I don't take some of their units in my main army, or that I create secondary armies with them.
But let's be honest, you're almost always gonna take troops from the starting town, because it was upgraded before any other town and you already have more of them (or because you like it more too, in my case, since I play to relax).
And especially if you start with Tower (which I usually do), you will want Archery as fast as possible, since it's also relatively easy to find bonus dmg artifacts and even assemble S. Bow, with some luck. And really, to partially answer your question, who would not take Archery when they have the possibility to buy tier 7 Titans, Archmagi and eventually shooters from other towns?
Now I'm the one who wonders what kind of games you play.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2020 12:51 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
Random maps, maps, etc. I usually play long maps, because short maps are... short. And usually I don't want to "switch" factions when I play with another faction. That doesn't mean I don't take some of their units in my main army, or that I create secondary armies with them.
But let's be honest, you're almost always gonna take troops from the starting town, because it was upgraded before any other town and you already have more of them (or because you like it more too, in my case, since I play to relax).
And especially if you start with Tower (which I usually do), you will want Archery as fast as possible, since it's also relatively easy to find bonus dmg artifacts and even assemble S. Bow, with some luck. And really, to partially answer your question, who would not take Archery when they have the possibility to buy tier 7 Titans, Archmagi and eventually shooters from other towns?
Now I'm the one who wonders what kind of games you play.
Well, for example in MP games, your army will mostly consist on Wyverns, Angels, Cyclopses, Giants, Firebirds and possibly units that you've received from boxes. In most popular templates(Jebus family templates), you may build some dwellings, if you manage to find and capture some external dwellings of the same creature as well. This is because the games tend to last a bit over 7 days/turns, so you will maybe receive " extra reinforcements" twice in the game - once you brought the dwelling and then at the second week, if you want. Mainly the units from your town are used for meat shields so your actual army would take as minimal loses as possible. It's not rare to see archers used "only" as one-stacks.
Therefore, skill such as Archery is not actually that good for Tower for example. Mages are rarely build because there's simply no time, so only Master gremlins can really utilize it, and they become obsolete quite fast.
So if you would get Archery soon, it would be good for towns that can utilize their early game shooters as a power stack: Castle, Rampart, Tower, Inferno, Conflux, Cove and maybe Dungeon, if your really stretch it.
For late game, your original shooters are quite likely dead or abandoned, so the Archery is mostly good for only your cyclopses, but that sometimes is your main power stack, so Archery can still be viable in the end as well.
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FirePaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 08, 2020 01:07 PM |
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Hourglass said:
FirePaladin said:
Random maps, maps, etc. I usually play long maps, because short maps are... short. And usually I don't want to "switch" factions when I play with another faction. That doesn't mean I don't take some of their units in my main army, or that I create secondary armies with them.
But let's be honest, you're almost always gonna take troops from the starting town, because it was upgraded before any other town and you already have more of them (or because you like it more too, in my case, since I play to relax).
And especially if you start with Tower (which I usually do), you will want Archery as fast as possible, since it's also relatively easy to find bonus dmg artifacts and even assemble S. Bow, with some luck. And really, to partially answer your question, who would not take Archery when they have the possibility to buy tier 7 Titans, Archmagi and eventually shooters from other towns?
Now I'm the one who wonders what kind of games you play.
Well, for example in MP games, your army will mostly consist on Wyverns, Angels, Cyclopses, Giants, Firebirds and possibly units that you've received from boxes. In most popular templates(Jebus family templates), you may build some dwellings, if you manage to find and capture some external dwellings of the same creature as well. This is because the games tend to last a bit over 7 days/turns, so you will maybe receive " extra reinforcements" twice in the game - once you brought the dwelling and then at the second week, if you want. Mainly the units from your town are used for meat shields so your actual army would take as minimal loses as possible. It's not rare to see archers used "only" as one-stacks.
Therefore, skill such as Archery is not actually that good for Tower for example. Mages are rarely build because there's simply no time, so only Master gremlins can really utilize it, and they become obsolete quite fast.
So if you would get Archery soon, it would be good for towns that can utilize their early game shooters as a power stack: Castle, Rampart, Tower, Inferno, Conflux, Cove and maybe Dungeon, if your really stretch it.
For late game, your original shooters are quite likely dead or abandoned, so the Archery is mostly good for only your cyclopses, but that sometimes is your main power stack, so Archery can still be viable in the end as well.
But this is only for short templates like Jebus and MP... In the maps I play, I can develop my first towns fully. And I also mentioned that it's good for large maps, not little maps or little templates where you just rush as best as you can and don't even experience the full game.
I always get to build Magi. Gremlins are left in the town in 3rd week, because they are too slow. And when I get Titans with Archery... They totally wreck armies dealing more damage than they should, even being able to confront larger armies with some tactics (tactics not as a skill).
And what? Is late game week 3? That's still late early game for me. I'd rather play a big satisfying map instead (but not too easy either. It doesn't mean it's easy if it's big).
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 08, 2020 05:37 PM |
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My maps, with my rules, last at least 4-5 months, so it's all a matter of perspective I guess.
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FirePaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted April 08, 2020 05:55 PM |
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phoenix4ever said: My maps, with my rules, last at least 4-5 months, so it's all a matter of perspective I guess.
I think so. It's a big difference between short and large map strategies. A really big one.
Basically, Archery is undesirable on short maps (maybe a "probably" for Rampart and/or Castle), unless you really have many shooters, but on larger maps, it's a total "yes" only for Tower (I mean, 40-60 dmg becomes 60-90 at expert, while also having 2 other shooters + possibly some dmg boost artifacts) and depends upon situation for other towns.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2020 07:10 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
But this is only for short templates like Jebus and MP... In the maps I play, I can develop my first towns fully. And I also mentioned that it's good for large maps, not little maps or little templates where you just rush as best as you can and don't even experience the full game.
Well, what can I say? It's a different style of play, and it tests different areas than games where you systematicially build your town only. I wouldn't call it somehow worse/lacking experience, just a different one.
FirePaladin said:
And what? Is late game week 3? That's still late early game for me. I'd rather play a big satisfying map instead (but not too easy either. It doesn't mean it's easy if it's big).
It totally depends, in some scenarios week 3 would be late game, in some other it would be how-did-manage-to-stretch-this-map-this-far late game. X) And then there are the Giant maps with underground and 7 AI against you, where the week 3 would be veeery early in the game.
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