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| Thread: If you could erase 1 skill from existence, in Heroes 3... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 21, 2022 07:32 PM |
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Poll Question:
If you could erase 1 skill from existence, in Heroes 3...
what would it be?
You CAN'T vote for:
* Ballistics, since AI needs this skill.
* Navigation, since it IS relevant on water maps.
* Interference, since that's a HotA thing and not an original skill.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 21, 2022 09:19 PM |
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I don't think that removing a skill is a good idea. You can always disable it. Even Learning can be useful on tournament maps (you know, experience can be a secondary criterion to determine the winner). Also it's good for puzzle-maps.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 21, 2022 09:24 PM |
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I was just interested in peoples opinions, like I often am.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 21, 2022 09:29 PM |
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Well, then Learning is definitely an outsider.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 22, 2022 07:48 AM |
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Diplomacy because it makes winning ridiculously easy when Lots of Archangels and a Hoarde of Red Dragons decide to join you on Random Map.
I did enjoy having the skill, but still that's my answer. 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 22, 2022 07:49 AM |
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Definetively, Earth Magic. There is no skill that kripples the game more. If you couldn't learn it for any reason, you probably already lost the match.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 22, 2022 08:00 AM |
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@Drakon-Deus and Bloodsucker
Good points both of you.
I have made my own limitations to those skills, so I still consider them "playable".
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 22, 2022 08:44 AM |
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I've already said this but I think the solution to Learning is to make it give random primary skill bonus, like one of the scripts from WoG. If all you're getting from leveling up is 5% to specialty and one more primary skill point(late game), to gain another is a major benefit.
Now, I'm not saying the percentages in WoG are the ones to keep, that will need a ton of testing to get it right.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 22, 2022 05:57 PM |
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@Learning
Cryptic Random (WoG/ERA) map has a special HoMM variation gives a task to AI that Quest Guard says 10lvl hero, but 1lvl AIs and their territory can't find monsters, Learning Stones, Treasure Chests, etc So AIs have to force to buy a abandoned heroes or dead heroes also hero who has a Learning skill. Then AIs have allied AIs, if they come and help allied AIs.. An idea is Undiscovered Worlds.. A original Border Guard, I changed Quest Guard.. But allied AI needs Keymaster Tents, and then goes to Monolith One Way to help allied AIs.. I was thinking 2-5lvl, but I chose 10lvl. Yes funny game, when an easy between hard or you understand something.. Learning is a very important.. But rarely.. An idiot can thinking in monsters come and give them growth.. So H4 for Stealth, etc Thus Learning isn't a very bad/poor.. I'm waiting for the next idea.. Thus now's the rare HoMM game variations..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2022 06:26 PM |
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The way learning works as it is now, is it blocks out a secondary skill slot (from 8 to 7) and gives you higher primary stats, provided learning is set high enough. (~10/20/30%)
The 'n-extra levels' calculation/argument is not valid because you have neglected to factor in the multiplier effect of just exceeding thresholds that would otherwise have you stuck in a certain place without sufficient experience to break through a containment.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2022 07:40 PM |
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EAGLE EYE!
It's one thing the effect is only useful on maps specifically deisgned for it.
The other thing is the ridiculous story behind it.
Your hero(ine) got eagle eyes. Now you could use them for plenty of useful things (recon stuff for instance).
It is supposed to be used to "see" how magic (which I think of as a mind-centered thing unleashing) is done.
Which in turn means spells are to becarried out by ludicrous hanky-panky gestures and by declaiming "hocus pocus abracadabra"-style phrases.
Nah, I don't want to be reminded of that.
Why don't they cover their lips like football pros, have some troops occlude the line of sight or simply turn around when casting a spell?
This riciculous backstory could be fixed by renaming it to something like Interference though.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 22, 2022 08:03 PM |
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If Eagle Eye could also pick up spells from enemy creatures and learn spells during battle, not after, it might have been a little more useful. 
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 22, 2022 08:18 PM |
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A loophole is collecting all spells from..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted April 23, 2022 10:35 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 10:38, 23 Apr 2022.
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Well, the backstory is still the least important thing about eagle eye. You could call it "inner eye"; "spirit sight"; Third eye", "Mystical viewing" and would still be useless in almost all cases.
Something that could sort of "fix" it would be learning spells from creatures (maybe you can limit it to not your own creatures):
- Enchanter random blessings/curses
- Genie random blessings
- Weakness and dispel when cast by dragon flies
- Petrification (Basilisk, Medusa) and paralysis (Manticore)
- Wyvern poison
- Dendroid roots (immobilize for one turn)
- Azure Dragon's Fear.
- Rust dragon's Corrosion.
- Ghost Dragon's Aging.
- Death Knight's Curse and Double Damage (blessing with 20% trigger)
- Elementals "protection from" spells.
Basically anything that has a "cast" effect.
And so forth. This would make it quirky and more fun; and since creatures cast often and there are lots of battles with neutrals, 40% is actually a reasonable rate (provided you can learn during combat, not just after it).
Also, it's nonsense to not allow you to learn 5th level spells this way. You are alredy going through unimaginable pain to get these conditions, at least let me learn the enemy's Magic Mirror.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 23, 2022 12:28 PM |
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Hehe I kinda knew people would be voting for Eagle Eye in this poll.
Can't say I'm surprised, but I just wish the skill was better.
@Nimo
My version of Eagle Eye CAN learn level 5 spells, not bad if you happen to learn Implosion, I guess. 
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 23, 2022 07:08 PM |
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I don't think that developers planned this game to be some sort of e-sport. When playing against computer players all skills are good enough to not loose a game. You can have the worst 8 of them just in one game and still you can win on most maps. The fuss is not about winning/loosing a map with these or those particular spells, it's about pacing with which you're making headway. You cannot progress fast without Earth Magic, so you appreciate this skill, for example. But, if we go competitive, and a player wanna know that he is a czar  of all heroes after a few matches, he will definitely be angry after loosing due to random. Returning to e-sport. To fairly estimate your own skill you should play at least 1,000 games and look at your win/loose rate. This is what online Heroes about, not just about one or two games with unfair random.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 23, 2022 07:28 PM |
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Yeah some MP lost to an average Joe.. Some explains Eagle Eye   STOP the mouth
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 23, 2022 07:40 PM |
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The vector of modern competitive Heroes points in the direction of fast-resolving problems of excellence. All that balancing hoodoo is just for reducing a number of games you have to play to estimate your skill. And, of course, for that every single one of them was fair enough to not going for an extra bottle of vodka after a match
But, if we speak in the offline language of amateurs you don't really have to care about strong and weak skill. Just enjoy your game and, after Eagle Eye or Learning choice, say thank you, Unforgiving and Awesome Queen of Randomness, for this amazing challenge for humble me, and thank you for free experience that will make me stronger.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 23, 2022 07:56 PM |
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As a modder you are not really replying with things I can relate to, Alex.
You could instead tell me how to make EE learn spells from creatures and during the fight
This will not only benefit me, but also AI and my friends. 
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 23, 2022 08:04 PM |
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If you look carefully at the pile of existing mods then you will see that most of ideas, even desperate ones, are already a reality. Now the most important problem is to convience players that mods really work, really give you what you wanted. But, as I understand, most players need an authority, a god in some sense - be it NWC/3DO or the HotA Crew - to enjoy what they want to Well, I cannot be such an authority. You know, you cannot believe AlexSpl
About learning from creatures. It's just a few extra lines of code. All is possible. The main problem is time of modders and how their work will be received.
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