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| Thread: Creature ability combination ideas | |
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 10, 2022 06:54 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 23:36, 10 Jun 2022.
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Creature ability combination ideas
Ability slots per creature due to some GUI bugs are limited as of now to four. Also there is a limited number of creatures available. And we don't have as many graphics for creatures as we would like either.
However, these are still some examples of ideas which I coudn't implement in ULTIMATE mod despite the thoretical possibility, due to these limitations:
- Freezing Breath
* Freezing Attack
PLUS
* Breath Attack
Description:
This attack would have the possibility to freeze up to two creatures. The second creature would be still immune to the damage at least if it has fire resistance. More testing is needed.
Notes: I almost use this ability on Black Dragons along a cold recolor, but I fear it may bring them too close to Order's "cold" style and they are an iconic Chaos/Dungeon unit. If only we could add more creatures and variations...
The other option was to do a "cold phoenix" instead of the fire one but the Phoenix already is kind of at the ability limit by itself already.
- Three-headed flame
* Three-headed attack
PLUS
* Breath Attack
Description: A very ofensive ability. Also probably can be very harmful to yourself. I don't know if the flame would apply in all three directions or just to main target. More testing is needed.
Notes: Heroes 5 has a hound which has a three-headed flame attack. We just need an appropiate animation and this could recreate it.
- Witching Stones or Plague Stones
* Random Harmful Spells AND/OR Poison
PLUS
* Ranged attack
PLUS
* Ranged Area Damage OR Greek Fire (hardcoded to same creatures)
Description:
Beholders have powerful ranged spells. But what if they were area effect? Many creatures could be devilishly attacked at the same time. Even if this is too strong, you can make the creature just have 1-4 shots. More testing is needed.
Notes: It would be interesting to have a sort of "Plague Catapult" or "venom ballista" (scorpion), with either this or Poison as abilities... an Evil version of the Gargantuan* or an Undead Cyclops are also tempting.
- Witching Flame
* Random Harmful Spells
PLUS
* Breath Attack
Description:
This attack would generate random curses on up to two creatures at the same time. It would be very powerful and birth chaos in the battlefield, taking by surprise many defenders. This is tested as working.
Notes: I also considered this on Black Dragons with a purple flame, but it was probably too OP and the stats nerf needed to balance it would have made Black Dragons lose some of their personality as powerhouses. Sadly Bone Dragons and Faerie Dragons do not have breath attack animations.
- Thrice-Cursed Attack
* Cursing
PLUS
* Three-headed attack
Description:
Something like this could not only damage up to three creatures at the same time, it also would be able to Curse them in one swift stroke.
Notes: If you also add the First Strike ability, then you can curse them before they retaliate, generating a weaker retaliation due to lower damage. In any case, the secondary targets don't retaliate so this is also someting to take into account as a good way to damage and curse them...
- All-around Weakening
* Weakness (cast on attack)
PLUS
* Attacks all around (Hydra)
Description:
Cast Weakness all around you. Surely this works. Also good during your own retaliation.
- Blinding Light
* Blinding
PLUS
* Breath attack all around (megadragon)
Description:
Some kind of mega-angel or demigod could use this attack, animated as a bright explosion of light coming from itself... with the possibility to blind many damaged enemies. More testing is needed.
- Burning Heat
* Attacks all around/three-headed attack
PLUS
* Fire attack
PLUS
* Breath Attack (optional)
Description:
Just a way to show a creature is very "hot" if you know what I mean.
Notes:
Along with Three-Headed Attack, I almost use this for Fire Elemental, using its "fidget" anim as the animation. I decided agaisnt it since it would require adding two abilities, and they are already at limit. The advantage of just Breath Attack is that it already takes into account Fire Immunity for secondary targets, and Fire Shield is already fire damage; reistance creatures are protected from both. Thus adding Fire Attack is unnecessary as it is, but with Attacks all Around or Three headed attack (which would in turn necessitate removing fire shield, the other two abilities being Fire Resistance and Elemental), it would be needed.
For an alternate Fire Elemental or Fire Demon it would be cool, tho...
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HOW TO USE MELEE-ONLY ATTACKS AS IF THEY WERE RANGED
Some of the Heroes 4 spells work only when attacking in melee. This includes Curse and Aging for 100% probability of effect each, and Blinding, Freezing and Hypnotize for 30/40% probability each (100% and 30% can be combined in a one-and-one basis).
In addition, Vampirism cannot work on ranged attacks, only on melee.
But, there is a way to sidestep all this:
* Attack and Return
PLUS
* No enemy retaliation/fear/first strike
PLUS
* Teleport/fly (optional)
PLUS
* [spell on attack ability]
This would allow you to attack enemies at a distance and apply melee spells "as if" you were a ranged creature. This has a high "ability cost" though since it's one to three other abilities (attack and return being the most important) besides the spell/s (up to two) itself. The "range" of your quasi-ranged creature may be defined from its movement.
This also is a way to show more clearly which creature is attacking, since new (modded) ranged creatures in H4 cannot have projectile anims, but attack and returning creatures will always show their assault.
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How about you? What do you think about these combinations?
What ability combination ideas do you have?
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted June 10, 2022 08:16 PM |
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Great idea! Really big invention. It gives a lot of tactical combinations in battles. Freeze and blind is de facto the same so will be good to have one normal second with Breath.
Using more combinations we can have in fact new units!
In my mod eg. champion has charge plus harpy move! It gives completly new experience!
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 10, 2022 10:57 PM |
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I did that exact same combination in unicorns  for Ultimate mod
On the other hand I dont think Freeze and Blind are the same. They are both disabling spells, but blinds lasts 3 turns yet is dispelled by attack. In contrast Freeze lasts only 2 turns but isn't dispelled by attack.
This is very important as it lets you gang up on the frozen unit.
On the other hand Blind is mind/visual effect, while freeze is cold effect, so different immunities apply...
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted June 11, 2022 08:25 PM |
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Small difference because if blind works is no sense waste it by attack. Bigger differrence is 2 od 3 turns.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 11, 2022 10:18 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 22:19, 11 Jun 2022.
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Quote:
Small difference because if blind works is no sense waste it by attack
Ah but you give me the reason here! As freezing is not ruined by attacks. Not only this but disables retaliation. THus you are encouraged to attack the frozen creature instead of others, if anything. While in blind as you say, you are strongly discouraged. This is a very big oppossite.
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted June 13, 2022 09:12 AM |
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The point is, once you freeze it, it's a success, and it would be foolish to spoil it. Leave it frozen and attack the rest! The same blinding, hence the slight difference. Is small.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 13, 2022 05:56 PM |
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it doesn't spoil it though.
It may also be the last stack, in which having it retaliate would be significant.
Imagine a Sea Monster in base H4. You have a hero, which is better? Blinding or freezing?
If you blind it, it can still retaliate and kill your hero with Devouring. If you freeze it, it cannot retaliate and you can kill it without risk.
I just use Devouring as an example because it is more dramatic. Actually, normal damge from any retaliation may kill you just as well.
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted June 13, 2022 08:40 PM |
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Ok I was told its small differrence. In 90% cases its nearly the same.
Real differrence is when you must use completly differrent style of fighting. Eg unicorn, hydra, naga are completly differrent on the battlefield...
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