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| Thread: What’s happening in France |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Salamandre
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posted July 08, 2023 09:29 PM |
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There is no 10 years to get papers, you keep on caricature. If you come legally in France, you get them on the fly, otherwise you can't get in. If you jump in illegally, you never deserve any papers. Unless you do some heroic act, save a life as we saw a few cases by the past. Papers are a gift.
You must understand one thing : from all people over the world, the ones criticizing the most France are the french themselves.
You have one country, one family, one commune history and when is defamed of attacked, like here were we had pure chaos for one week, it is french people duty to stand up, defend it to death then point a finger at the culprits. If french people do not get such basic concept, then there will be no France left sooner or later.
See how in one of your previous comments you unwrapped all the common places, as police racism (from nowhere but you felt it has to be told) and discrimination. In my opinion, this is what fractures the country, who will respect you when you are the first to hate yourself.
Sure, I understand your stance, as I am culturally build on same patterns, we all want a better society and strive for perfection. The question is : how your self-questioning will be interpreted by those driven by constant animosity and feed up with victimization propaganda? We had a taste.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
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posted July 08, 2023 10:59 PM |
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Salamandre said:
There is no 10 years to get papers, you keep on caricature. If you come legally in France, you get them on the fly
You're daydreaming.
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You must understand one thing : from all people over the world, the ones criticizing the most France are the french themselves.
And this is partly how France has been (and still is) a great country in so many regards. Our elders fought for the rights we now have, and we somehow have to keep fighting in order to not lose them. France is pretty much a fairytale in most foreign countries, as an immigrant yourself I understand you keep that ideal in you.
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who will respect you when you are the first to hate yourself.
I don't understand this bottom line. Racism is a disgrace, police MUST be exemplary. What strange link you make in your head thinking I would hate myself or my country with that stance.
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Salamandre
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posted July 09, 2023 12:52 AM |
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Sorry I was trying to edit and whole post went off. here is:
Heh, as I said. The guy in the video jumped the line, he is a clandestine. France isn't McDonald, "come as you are". How can you have a such low opinion of your country and be so indifferent to the safety of those around you?
Kick him out, what are now the standards to get french citizenship, breath?
You're right, your ancestors fought, while we just keep talking and trying to be nice - at least to those hating us while being not nice at all to those protecting us, at cost of their lives ; this is nowadays the big "fight" the left is proud of. Country burns to the ground, but police racism is the problem.
And that's why it is you, me, and the others who will pay the rebuild for the last week chaos, around 1 billion euros. Not the real culprits, nor their families.
Could have been 10 billions, had the racist police stay at home, for more training lol.
Michel Onfray
And as response to your last comment : you can't have a functional and safe state if resources are limited while your social pattern is only empathy towards every individual in needs around the world. This is utopia. We see the results.
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Galaad
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posted July 09, 2023 12:57 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 01:04, 09 Jul 2023.
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Salamandre said:
Sorry I was trying to edit and whole post went off.
Lol, when I noticed that, I then removed mine. I repaste it now:
You are confused. I would agree with kicking him out if the guy was a criminal. He is evidently not. He fled Jihadism and is still trying his chance in the country of Human Rights, a defining notion that you don't seem to have integrated yourself. The reasons of his asylum application being rejected are obscure. You think people like him are the ones burning the country? While he works 10h a day with the cotisations going for someone else? You're mixing everything up.
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And as response to your last comment : you can't have a functional and safe state if resources are limited while your functioning pattern is only empathy towards every individual in needs around the world.
I don't disagree with that. We however have the capability to help SOME. So I would say, give the honest ones the papers and kick out the ones burning, raping, torturing, decapitating, beating up to death randoms in the street for nothing. That is France's whole problem : do everything in order and your life can be extremely difficult, be a criminal and life is easy. Now THAT is a caricature but hopefully you get my point.
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angelito
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posted July 11, 2023 10:33 AM |
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Salamandre said:
Of course we disagree as you place the police as main responsible for what's going on. This is what your first comment says.
So fleeing from the police means death penalty then? "proportionality of means" is what comes into my mind immediately...
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 11, 2023 10:50 AM |
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@Angy
Police's argument is legitimate defense, could have been rolled over by the car or smashed by it through the wall... In that short millisecond I can understand the cop got scared... Investigation is ongoing, until then the cop is in pretrial detention.
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Salamandre
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posted July 11, 2023 10:55 AM |
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Ok, then give the solution.
How stop a multiple underage offender, chaotically driving for 25 minutes without driving licence, at full speed at the time when the children cross the streets for school classes, a powerful sport car (100 km in 4 sec) registered abroad therefore impossible to identify, moreover who ignored 5 times the command to stop the engine and even when the cop has his body on the car, weapon in hand, all he says is "move from my way" then accelerates.
Let us hear what would you do.
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artu
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posted July 12, 2023 03:44 AM |
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But isnt that the story very much in question? From what I read, there are some videos taken by witness phones that contradict the version of events based on police statements and that's how the riots started.
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Salamandre
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posted July 12, 2023 04:25 AM |
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It looked like that at first, then social medias pushed the narrative that the cop yelled "I will shot you in the head" then his colleague added "shot him".
Or it turns he said "hands beyond the head" and the colleague said "cut the engine". ("coupe le" sounds similar to "shot le"). I put the link for Galaad.
And from there, the whole story about how it was a premeditated crime went world wide, before any investigator could hear the sound track. Now that they gave the official conclusion, it doesn't matter, the African hurricane upturned almost every city.
Nobody pretends you should be mopped over running away from police, but when you push police to the limits and put others in danger, snow may happen and you are responsible, too. What saddens me is that judges will not play fair, as if he gets out we will have another "popular" looting. So he is screwed, no matter what.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 12, 2023 11:08 AM |
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Trouble seems to be that the two additional kids in the car tell a different story.
It also would seem that the riots are to be seen in connection with the police law change of 2017, allowing cops to shoot in cases of "disobedience", which is a hard sell for everyone.
I mean, the story is, the cops stopped the car, one cop at the fender, one at the driver door, and the latter hit the driver three times, at which time the driver was so dazed that his foot slipped from the brake and car rolled forward, since it had an auto-transmission. Then one cop told the other to shoot and the other did.
I find that pretty believable.
The real question here isn't actually the shooting. I think, that's covered well by the law. The real question is, whether the cop really hit the dead guy thrice.
I mean, law or not, you can't hit a suspect into a daze and when he starts falling down shoot him for disobeying the command to stand upright, if you know what I mean.
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Galaad
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posted July 12, 2023 11:38 AM |
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The police version does differ from the videos.
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Le policier auteur du tir se trouve sur le côté. Pourtant, dans le premier rapport, ce n’est pas ce qui apparaît. "Le fonctionnaire de police s’est mis à l’avant du véhicule léger pour le stopper. Le conducteur a essayé de repartir en fonçant sur le fonctionnaire", peut-on lire. Devant l’IGPN, le policier a présenté une version différente : "Il a décidé d’ouvrir le feu pour éviter que le conducteur ne renverse quelqu’un ou ’n’embarque’ son collègue". L’avocat du policier s’offusque de son maintien en détention.
Or.
Then rioters literally go burn kindergartens, so someone explains me the link. There's no winning side in this story.
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angelito
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posted July 12, 2023 08:46 PM |
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Galaad said:
@Angy
Police's argument is legitimate defense, could have been rolled over by the car or smashed by it through the wall... In that short millisecond I can understand the cop got scared... Investigation is ongoing, until then the cop is in pretrial detention.
Hmmm...as far as I can see in this video, the cops are standing on the side of the car...not in front...not on the back. How can the policeman be afraid of getting rolled over or smashed to the wall given this situation?
Why not just shoot at the tires when the guy started to drive away?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 12, 2023 09:13 PM |
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On the side yes, but also on the car's hood, with the wall just behind him. Had the conductor turned slightly on the left... It's a possibility, it's understandable that he panicked.
It's easy for us to say what could have been done while looking at the video, but when you're in the actual situation, with what happened before, with the past record of the dude driving, you have to make the decision in less than a second, and Sal made fun of me for mentioning that earlier but, this is also where the lack of proper training shows.
So Idk, for me, it's unclear situation, hopefully the investigation will figure it out.
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Salamandre
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posted July 12, 2023 10:21 PM |
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In ghettos, winning a fight with police is considered an heroic act, a ritual to acomplish.
As long as you don't fix that behavior, by suing and penalizing the family every time a crime is committed by a teen, there will never be any proper and adequate police training.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 12, 2023 10:38 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 22:40, 12 Jul 2023.
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Salamandre said:
In ghettos, winning a fight with police is considered an heroic act, a ritual to acomplish.
As long as you don't fix that behavior, by suing and penalizing the family every time a crime is committed by a teen, there will never be any proper and adequate police training.
Dude, law enforcement has nothing to do with police training...
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Salamandre
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posted July 12, 2023 11:31 PM |
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This is not "law enforcement" but removing bad weeds from new culture by applying the only universal cure - bring back familial responsibility.
When you have 28 000 refusals to obey in one year, while you had 3 in 1980, target what changed that. Was police better trained back then? No.
You guys keep denouncing the effects, not the causes, this is a no end strategy and we already tried it for 30 years.
Police is exceptional in France, a few slips here and there is the norm. Compare with similar divided societies facing same violence, as USA for example and you will get it.
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Galaad
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posted July 13, 2023 12:13 AM |
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Of course this is law enforcement, and I actually agree we need it. There is close to no repression towards underage delinquents and it is a real problem. Police training is another thing, and is also needed. You may not want it, as I said earlier police itself wants it.
We should strive for the better, not satisfying ourselves by comparing with the worse.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2023 02:48 PM |
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This is how Rome fell. Too many immigrants that did not believe in Rome. The instinct of survival is ugly, some may even kill others, cut them into steaks and eat them during times of hunger and famine. An immigrant displays a strong instinct of survival as he crosses half the world for a better life. None of them travels to a poorer country, that's for sure.
We're getting cucked the hell out and it's sad.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 14, 2023 09:24 PM |
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It's not.
Rome conquered an empire, got fat, went on to defend what they had robbed and plundered and got ripped asunder.
Same with the colonial powers. Sucked countries dry, ensured a high living standard, want to defend it and are beleaguered by those that were left befind. Don't procreate enough to continue on our own since kids are too fricking bothersome, so down we go. The well-worn road of history.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 17, 2023 02:49 AM |
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So, should we to understand that you now agree with Sal about Europe "going down."
I realize it is not the most glorious times for Europe but characterizing such events like "the fall of a civilization" would be a little extreme, I think.
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