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| Thread: New/Old Factions alignments |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 06:31 PM |
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Quote:
By the way, I never thought of Tower as particularly "good" if we take into account that they keep Gremlins enslaved with ball and chain and the Gargoyles and Nagas don't exactly scream goodness. Golems, Giants, Genies feel at best neutral to me, and if we look at the story of how the Tower faction treated poor Yog when he turned away from magic, they're not that good.
Labeling is not a good thing. I believe you might find Chaotic Evil characters even in Castle faction. But they are minority and don't represent a faction as a whole.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 06:41 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 18:41, 09 Oct 2023.
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Well, in the game there are 3 degrees of being different, let's call it so.
The OP tries to expand those 3 degrees to 9 (according to D&D alignments).
So, you must categorize factions, otherwise the whole point of the topic is lost. And the whole point of the topic is to label factions with one of those degrees.
I agree, that there are colors in between, but, hopefully, we won't go deeper into this abyss, otherwise philosophy itself will want to insert its 5 coins 
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 07:01 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 19:08, 09 Oct 2023.
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Quote:
Because, sometimes, saving the balance of the world might cause the harm of some humanoid races. Would then be a good deed from the humanoid races point of view? What about from the point of view of the planet (with its inhabitants - native beasts and humanoid races).
That's the definition of being True Neutral. Elementals don't think in such categories. They have their own planes. And they would have been stayed there with their own beliefs if not that fact that some forces wanted to subjugate them (remember summon spells? M&M VIII?).
So, they were forced to take part in the events of HoMM3. And their decision was not based on that if a faction is good or not. They picked "good forces" only because that way was the shortest to restore the balance, so they could live their eternity henceforth without problems from the side of tiny mortals.
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Star_mage
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 07:01 PM |
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But that is the point of the thread. To discuss.
What are the factions of Heroes 3?
Castle - Erathia and Phynaxia
Rampart - AvLee (is Stone City - the dwarf capital, part of the AvLee empire?)
Tower - Bracada
Inferno - The Kreegans in Eofol
Necropolis - Deyja, mages and alchemists who discovered Black Magic/Necromancy
Dungeon - Nighon
Stronghold - the barbarians of Krewlod
Fortress - the beastmasters and witches of TaTalia
Conflux - Erathians and Elementals fighting in Eofol against the Kreegans.
Cove - Pirates of *what*? Where do they reside? Are they the Regnan Pirates?
Btw, are there any known permanent interactions/trades between Inferno, Necro and Dungeon as allies? or are they simply opportunistic allies against a common enemy?
So, im not even sure that Castle is even a good ally with Rampart. They fought in the Timber wars in the Contested Lands because the humans were chopping down trees and the elves were protecting them.
Would it be correct to claim that Rampart is Lawful Good? They also follow well established rules in their society (they have Dukes).
Castle is already kind of evil, since they are at war with most of the other factions good, evil or neutral: TaTalia, Krewlod, AvLee, Kreegans, Deyja, Nighon. Would they be Lawful evil? or, in more mechanics/simplistic way to say simply, just evil?
I think that we are in a rush to say that castle is good (because of the angels) and rampart is chaotic (due to nature alignment), but arent we really biased from the other games? I know that the Lawful/Chaotic + Good/Evil rule is from another game, but I wanted to know how would it apply on Heroes 3 factions based on their timeline.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 09, 2023 07:10 PM |
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I know Resurrection belongs to good, Armageddon is evil, and Summon boat is neutral But Fear? Evil JVC took my life.. I searched for a long time  What? HC is good  and Macron1 is neutral  Ok buddies
FACT: Good = Castle, Tower, Rampart. Neutral = Fortress, Stronghold. Evil = Inferno, Dungeon, Necropolis. And new expansion added on Conflux is neutral.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 07:15 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 19:17, 09 Oct 2023.
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Quote:
So, im not even sure that Castle is even a good ally with Rampart. They fought in the Timber wars in the Contested Lands because the humans were chopping down trees and the elves were protecting them.
You can quarrel even with your closest friends. But by labeling "good" or "lawful" we understand that factions have something in common, despite local conflicts that might arise.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 07:27 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 19:28, 09 Oct 2023.
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Quote:
Castle is already kind of evil, since they are at war with most of the other factions good, evil or neutral: TaTalia, Krewlod, AvLee, Kreegans, Deyja, Nighon. Would they be Lawful evil? or, in more mechanics/simplistic way to say simply, just evil?
It's one step from turning everything upside down. Probably, Kreegans think of themselves as the good and strong civilization which brings the word of enlightenment to barbarians of Enroth and Erathia. They see good in such a way. Why not? But Erathia doesn't agree. I wonder why So, let's keep the D&D model of 9 classic alignments. Just post this -
A faction - An alignment which you think fits it most.
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Star_mage
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 07:42 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Quote:
It's one step from turning everything upside down. Probably, Kreegans think of themselves as the good and strong civilization which brings the word of enlightenment to barbarians of Enroth and Erathia. They see good in such a way. Why not? But Erathia doesn't agree. I wonder why
Well...i think that they would consider themselves good and strong civ only for their own benefit haha
From Wiki:
They [Kreegans] travel from planet to planet in high-technological hive-ships which take on the shape of meteorites, waging war on the inhabitants and attempting to claim these worlds for themselves.
They, and the undeads, are the true enemy of all. But separately. I think.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 07:55 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 19:57, 09 Oct 2023.
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Quote:
They, and the undeads, are the true enemy of all. But separately. I think.
Basic undead creatures can be controlled by anyone who knows the art of Necromancy. Theoretically, they can fight even agaist Kreegans. But, Necromancy is banned in good cities (obviously), and the higher undead, as Vampires and Liches, can control them much more effectively. So that's why they Neutral Evil.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 08:17 PM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 20:19, 09 Oct 2023.
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Star_mage said:
the undeads, are the true enemy of all.
Are the butterflies enemies to catepillars?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 09, 2023 09:39 PM |
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And mixed ally in H4 also Fortress joined to Dungeon..
Necropolis is great evil, an example of Hexis, Sandro, Grixis (MtG), and other mythical beings.. I know one but no name, he wants the whole undead in the planet..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted October 10, 2023 08:52 AM |
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@Alex
First you say "labeling is not a good thing" and then "the whole point of the thread is to label factions" 
Anyway, I said all I had in mind about Tower not being "good". I don't have much more to add to that.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2023 02:12 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 14:13, 10 Oct 2023.
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It's not good, but you have to, otherwise, after such tense discussions, we'll end up with Inferno being Lawful Good
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Star_mage
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 10, 2023 02:53 PM |
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I was actually going to say that you provided the best insight about this discussion and that it is very healthy and normal to question and contradict everything, even yourself.
“THE AIM OF ARGUMENT SHOULD NOT BE VICTORY, BUT PROGRESS.” (KARL POPPER)
I actually felt like we re having a relaxed conversation where we raise hypotheses and raise the activity in an old and somewhat dormant forum.
Macron1 said:
Star_mage said:
the undeads, are the true enemy of all.
Are the butterflies enemies to catepillars?
I think that Death is a *good* thing only when it doesnt turn the order of things upside down. When Death stays beyond the Veil between Life and Death and doesnt come back.
Because if things are not in Order, then Life is being eaten alive by Death.
But then what are the benefits of Chaos? Destruction and Rebirth?
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exodustpa
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 16, 2023 02:56 PM |
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For me:
Lawful Good: Castle
Neutral Good: Tower
Chaotic Good: Rampart
Lawful Neutral: Stronghold
True Neutral: Conflux
Chaotic Neutral: Fortress
Lawful Evil: Necro
Neutral Evil: Dungeon
Chaotic Evil: Inferno
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