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| Thread: ******* Confusion in Heroes4 Battles ********** | |
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jinxer
Legendary Hero
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posted May 12, 2002 08:00 PM |
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******* Confusion in Heroes4 Battles **********
I have just started playing H4 again, little bits at a time. But I cannot seem to understand the battles much.
What is the deal with the random automatic bonuses flying all over the place all the time? Is thee a pattern? A reason? Is it gonna happen every time, to the same type of creature? I just hear and see these bonuses flying and have no clue what they are or why they happened or what effect they had and for how long? Obviously need to learn these things. But seems these bonuses have no rhyme or reason they are just tossed out every round a dime a dozen.
And the attack/retaliate at same time is confusing as hell also. And if you shoot an opponent shooter he automatically fires ...BUT not at the same unit doing the shooting lol. A shoots at B and B retaliates at C. LOL. Is that how it is supposed to be?
ON a different note. I played a practice game and had angels by day6 and guild completely built 4 days later. Just seems like building is no longer a challenge. Why not just start the game with all buildings prebuilt???
I understand that even though I got the guild built I still need the proper magics skills to learn them but comeon 1,000 gold 1 wood to purchase level 5 guild??????????
This game has sooooo much potential and seems like they overlooked it and chose another path. I am giving the game a go though trying to learn it.
Just have alot of confusing about the game. So if anyone can answer some of the questions and concerns I posted lets hear it 
Jinxer
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted May 12, 2002 08:53 PM |
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What you mean with this flying things in battle field? Morale bonuses? Number of deaths (skull) or damage (broken heart)? Also luck (clover) appears when luck reduces damage.
Line of Sight effect affects both shooters and some spells. So if there is a grunt between shooter units, the grunt will take damage. And yes, that's how it is supposed to be.
On your concerns of building, the strategy mainly comes from what to build, like: Should I build Ranger's Guild to get Elf Dwelling (requires lots of wood but provides shooter)or should I go to White Tigers (most of the time more reasonable choice)?
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bestanden
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 12, 2002 10:34 PM |
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bonuses in battle
1)Try turning the combat speed down. What the bonuses are may become clearer.
2) Build - Like in Homm3, sometimes you can build the highest creature level in week one. Haven has some of the weaker/slower creatures so it seems to balance out. You won't be building titans in the first week (unless you have/gather approx 40,000 gold). Same for dragons, t-birds, phoenix, etc. And if you do build 4th level, you won't be buying those very important third level creatures as soon (with the retaliation system in homm4, one black dragon doesn't do you a helluva lot of good), and you won't have money to buy new heroes as they become available. There are no utopia gold injections like homm3 so you have to manage your gold more carefully. Try a game on the top two difficulty levels, you may not build any 4th level in the first month! People who talk about how gold and resources are too plentiful are playing the boxed campaigns which are designed in part for children, and not really for people who have been playing this game for several years.
3) Guilds - homm4 shifts the emphasis from gathering resources and tough-to-build 5 level guilds for a "three level" mage, to 5 level easy-to- build guilds and a "15 level mage." I like it because in order to cast the spell, you have to develop the hero, the guild part is easy. Also, there's no more casting high level spells in the early game, and if you do manage to do it, you will have crippled yourself elsewhere.
Spending levels on developing the mage is the hard/strategic part, as those levels could be also spent developing a thief, knight, lord or combat hero. In homm4, the only way to get "logistics" (other than artifacts) is scouting; the only way to get attack and defense skills that apply to the whole army is tactics, etc. To get those things, you have to sacrifice elsewhere to a greater extent than in homm3 where one hero could do it all. IMO, the new system adds lots of strategic depth and choices to the game and encourages the development of multiple heroes and flexible armies i.e., do you use your scouting/logistics hero to recon or to move the army?
I hope you and others keep giving the game a chance, I think it is going to be awesome in MP.
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My daddy drives a UFO
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 12, 2002 11:35 PM |
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Yes, awesome if you like 12 hour games which is ridiculous and unrealistic. People better get used to saving games, coz thats all theres going to be.
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uncoatedtitan
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 12, 2002 11:39 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, awesome if you like 12 hour games which is ridiculous and unrealistic. People better get used to saving games, coz thats all theres going to be.
Amen Rychie.....
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted May 13, 2002 12:59 AM |
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lolololol
like lettin some peeps , who shall remain namesless, turn what shoulda been a 3 hour game into a 10 hour marathon of active messages was so much fun!?
lololol
i don't understand this view that games will take 12 hours.
it reminds me of playin in my fav. homm 3 tourney's, "The Heroe, & , Battle Fest", for reasons that are plain the games were very fast. Especially The Hero! even though games would go for twice as long in game time they would play out twice as fast as there was no chaining or multi battles.
Now i do admit the battles in homm4 may take more time than the average homm 3 battles, but ya don't have to fight all of them normally.
There's the new option window that pops up and asks if ya wanna just fight auto. If ya haven't noticed, whenever the screen pops up it's basicly the comp sayin ya won't take any losses here so here's some free experience
As for balance of play, it's hard to say. Until we get to play this game multy none of us will know how balanced it is because right now no matter what town or hero you configure ya wail the comp with it. Period!
I also think that the fact that it wasn't launched multi also has caused a lotta peeps to lose interest in the game fast. The other homms were all multi right off the start. I don't think anybody would give a crap about the A.I. if we were playin the game multi. For most peeps the interest that was genrated in the homm series that gave it such longevity was mostly from the multi player aspects. Take those away and ya have games that were good but still would have been shelved after a month of play. The only thing that kept me playin Heroes three against the comp once in a while was nothing more than map testing geared towards multi.
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OK!! So i cann't spell well! So shoot me!!
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bestanden
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 13, 2002 03:33 AM |
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takes too long
>Yes, awesome if you like 12 hour games which is ridiculous >and unrealistic. People better get used to saving games, >coz thats all theres going to be.
To clarify some points in my last post.
As an experiment, yesterday I played Zanfa's challenge, the XL map, on intermediate as all six sides, playing each to the best of my ability (yes, I was playing with myself  ). It took about ten hours. That's an XL map, all six sides, fought 100-200 battles, developed more than 30 heroes to Grandmaster in at least one skill, cleared most areas of wandering monsters, finished the map in TEN HOURS(and could have been alot faster about it had I wanted to). The game ended well into the sixth month and it coulda been over in the late part of the fourth month. Haven't tried it (and most certainly won't) but I'll bet playing all six sides of an xl homm3 map cram packed with monsters and map structures wouldn't take any less time. So much for "twelve hour games."
I can't imagine that with 2-3 players, toh maps that people will quickly get to know, increasing familiarity with how the game works, and intelligent map design, that the game will take substantially longer than homm3 to complete. Yes, the first few turns take a little longer due to exploring with single creatures, but more of the map is revealed early on allowing you to plan your objectives better and save time later. On the other hand, people will figure out ways to send out infinite "active" messages, just as they did in homm3, but then such will probably always be the case with turn based games.
P.S. The first time I played that map as one side against 5 computer players, it took about 20 hours to finish, LOL, had to see what everything was/did. But I got much faster after playing the game for a few weeks.
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My daddy drives a UFO
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted May 13, 2002 07:15 AM |
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i dunno
I aint played h4 in awhile..and people always tell me im fast in games, so prolly doesnt count, but on a map i made, i tested both sides and played hotseat vs myself and took about 3, close to 4 hours...not much more than a normal heroes 3 game.
of course there them slow B@stards..and Ive played some h3 games that lasted 6 hours + on a medium map cause they wanted 6 min turns. i prolly played 1 of the 6 hours too
but im not touchin h4 again until multi comes...and then see how it goes from there. but no matter what peeps say b4 its released, ill still give it a shot.
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I will not lose.
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted May 14, 2002 08:17 AM |
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you losin it bud!!
ya get it jb!!? hahahaha
ya losin it?!!
hahahaha
mr. i cann't lose guy!!!!
hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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OK!! So i cann't spell well! So shoot me!!
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Immortal
Adventuring Hero
Transylvanian Dread Knight
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posted May 15, 2002 02:09 AM |
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I started to play the XL map with wanderrer in hot seat , and at the end of month two we were just able to clear our home lands (or corner if you want )...
what i observed is that on champion dificulty(i finished life campaign on that setting) , the AI really suck and you have a great chance to find a lot of computer corpses around the land....
next thing is that I really miss the H3 linked movement(heroes at a 1 day movement ) that could speed the game a lot...i mean now you can`t do as many battles in a day that you could do in H3..
another thing that sucks ( my personal opinion ) is that the hero participate in battle and is easely killed by some monsters before he can be able to do something if morale show up ( medusas , water elementals , magi )...
another one is that the sieges are not equilibrated...i mean there is a criminal castle for defending ( life ) that have 3 ranged units that can vanquish greater armies if they stay in the towers and a criminal castle for attacking ( Order ) that have magi who can cast poison , the teleport spell and the song of peace spell for genies that personally i think it should be modified to act like the enchnters in heroes 3 , so splitting them should not allow to cast it more than once a round....imagine an army with a hero , titans and magi in the back row, and 3 groups of 1 genie for song of peace and one with the rest of them for illusion in the front row....
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bestanden
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2002 05:30 AM |
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good point
You make a good point that Life troops (early hordes of good shooters) are great for castle defense and Order (genies and strong magic) troops are good for attack. IMO, this is one of the reasons that the developers of Homm4 denied these castle types a scouting hero (logistics/stealth) in their tavern. They can eventually get fast, but it will take longer than the other alignments generally.
On a side note...some folks are screaming to nerf order but I think the following disadvantages balance order:
1) No stealth or logistics available immediately.
2) 1 and 2 level troops are practically useless (compare to bandits and medusa in chaos). Golems are slow walkers and magi are very fragile.
3) 3rd and 4th level order dwellings are very expensive, especially if you want titans.
4) genies are the best third level but you need to build a large stack of them to do any good (compared to vamps, griffins, efreet, cyclops).
5) Order is the easiest for newbies to play and face it we are all homm4 newbies. This makes order look better than it is.
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My daddy drives a UFO
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Sir_Elric
Responsible
Famous Hero
Having a bad hair day.
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posted July 02, 2002 04:09 PM |
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Just about finished all the campaigns.
At least I will be ready when this damn MP comes out.......heh heh.
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Neverwinter Nights - "City of Melnibone"
Direct connect - ausnwn2.dyndns.org:5121
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