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| Thread: Is Bush crazy? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT» |
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Shadow_Phoenix
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posted August 23, 2002 11:32 PM |
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Poll Question:
Is Bush crazy?
I shouldn't post politics threads on this forum, but there are things that must not pass unoticed. BTW, this is not a anti american post, so don't take like one, this is merely a anti bush post.
First he ordered an atack against Afaganistan under the excuse of being retaliating against the destruction of the World Trade Center. This would be fine if he showed the world some proofs that the authors of the atack were there, but I don't remember to hear anything. Bush ordered the destruction of one country, that wasn't much to start with, without giving proofs to anyone else.
And now it seems that Bush wants to atack Iraq saying that Iraq is a danger to other countries while everyone else says that iraq hasn't the power to atack anything.
For those who believe in the profecies, do you think that Bush is the son of satan that will bring chaos to the world. If he is, he is in the right position.
BTW, have you heard of the new way to prevent fires that Bush has implemented? He promotes the cuting of trees to prevent fires. If I was american I would start to worry, maybe he starts killing ppl to prevent crime.
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privatehudson
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posted August 23, 2002 11:43 PM |
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Okay some facts and opinions on Bush
The prophecies you talk of? are you reffering to Nostrodamus? He said the antichrist would be born around the recent Millenium, and in the East. Doesn't exactly fit with bush now does it?
Iraq has no power to invade someone? Tell that to kuwait and Iran who were both invaded in the last 20 years by ummm let me see IRAQ!
As far as Afghanistan goes at least having bombed it heavily the west is aiding the country to get back on it's feet again. Think about it will you, you live under the taliban but want to get rid of them. Would you not welcome someone to help you in this? Personally in their position I would rather risk dying in a raid to living under those scum. I agree there is yet to be proof of any sort that either OBL or his scumbag henchmen planned 9/11, but they are evil terrorists, they do not wish to give up. The only bad thing is the apparent hypocrisy of doing that, yet letting the IRA bomb the UK for 30 odd years, but Bush was hardly to blame for that was he?
He has his bad points though, hell he is hardly someone who was elected with a landslide victory, and there may still have been some irregularities to that victory. He seems often a bit ignorant of the world and it's affairs, but we have yet to learn if he will adapt to this and learn of them.
No-one is solely evil, the anti-christ would be far more likely to have sucess in somewhere like china or russia, where destructive weapons are both available and there is often people willing to use them on the west.
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Dear_Morons
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posted August 23, 2002 11:48 PM |
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Edited By: Romana on 27 Aug 2002
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You obviously dont know how the US government works. First off being a president doesnt give you supreme power you moron, so he really isnt in the right position for it. Secondly anything he does as long as long as a deceleration of war hasn't been declared he needs to get the approval of congress among other things.
The only reason they picked OBL because EVERYONE wanted to know who it was and NOW. OBL had a lot of ties to the people who ran into the WTC so it was logical to pick him. It doesnt matter if OBL actually did it or not, as long as whoever gets blamed dies people will be happy...thats how the world works and has always worked in times like this.
As far as Iraq, I dont care if they get bombed and get pushed back into submission for another 10 years.
edit by Romana: no insulting..how many times do I have to say that? Try expanding your vocabulairy
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privatehudson
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posted August 23, 2002 11:51 PM |
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nice thoughts dm, tell me ever considered running for humanitarian of the year?
I'm sure your opinion of Iraq really will put you far ahead of any competition
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Sir_NaTuz_III
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posted August 24, 2002 12:13 AM |
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I thing Bush is a bush.
I dont understand wath are his prosediment of gobernement.
I BUSH: The terrorist kill a great cuantytiud of people so lets kill one thousand of Asian people.
 Is terrorism too destroy a afganistan hospital and city and kill people because a ligth suspect
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privatehudson
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posted August 24, 2002 12:15 AM |
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To delibetately destroy a Hospital is terrorism, to bomb it by accident is an unfortunate event that should never have happened. Damn it Where's D'Argon when you need him!
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Shadow_Phoenix
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posted August 24, 2002 12:22 AM |
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The part about the satans child was just a bad joke.
About Iraq, it isn't a threat NOW, in the past it was but some guy from the united nations or something say it isn't a threat to know one.
About the "unfortunate event that should never have happened" it hapens a lot of times doesn't it? And if the atack on the talibans was good to afeganistan I wonder why the citizens didin't like when us atacked.
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privatehudson
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posted August 24, 2002 12:29 AM |
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It's a war with imperfect humans can you honestly say that no other country has ever bombed a hospital?
Iraq if it has chemical weapons or nukes IS a threat. To an American or people outside a few thousand miles from Iraq it may not seem like it, but this guy may have these weapons and I personally am not happy seeing a lunatic with chemical weapons running a country so close to Britain.
How many times were the USA and British forces attacked by non-taliban forces? Hell they've barely come under to many attacks, let alone Northern Alliance or other groups. Do you have proof they are unhappy with intervention? Would you like to live under taliban rule? No-one wants to be bombed, but sometimes risks are needed to achieve a better life
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Shadow_Phoenix
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posted August 24, 2002 12:38 AM |
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I'm more afraid of what buish might do them sadam.
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privatehudson
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posted August 24, 2002 12:42 AM |
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that's fair enough, but that doesn't mean we should simply ignore sadam
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IYY
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REDACTED
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posted August 24, 2002 01:39 AM |
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Privatehudson, weren't you saying the exact opposite when talking about Israel? How can you support what the Americans are doing in Afganistan after one attack on their country without supporting Israel for defending itself for 50 years?
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privatehudson
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posted August 24, 2002 02:04 AM |
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errr no not quite the same. America and UK were going out of their way to avoid civilian casualties, end the conflict through dialogue and were actually sorry when they made a mistake. Israel on the other hand seems not to care as a government how many palestinians die in their attacks, not seem to worry about where they bomb and shell and seem unlikely under Sharon to come to peace anytime soon. You could just as easily say the exact same thing about palestinians who have been defending their rights for 50 years, but they don't always get a mention do they?
Do you see massive aid programmes to palestine from Israel? No because Israel's tactics have not brought peace, unlike the relative peace the US/UK actions have brought to Afghanistan
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IYY
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REDACTED
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posted August 24, 2002 02:28 AM |
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Quote:
errr no not quite the same.
You can't even imagine how much the same it is...
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America and UK were going out of their way to avoid civilian casualties
I don't think you understand what's going on in Israel right now. You don't understand how the Israeli army tries not to hurt civilians. Sometimes the soldiers are actually instructed not to shoot at the enemy unless he is shooting at them (shooting, not just aiming the gun) to avoid civilian deaths. Also, I don't understand what you mean by civilian: is a child who is aiming a machine gun at you and killed five of your friends a civilian?
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You could just as easily say the exact same thing about Palestinians who have been defending their rights for 50 years, but they don't always get a mention do they?
What kind of rights are you talking about when saying this? The right to own all of Israel which clearly does not belong to them? Or maybe it is the right to kill every Israeli on the planet?
Quote:
Do you see massive aid programmes to Palestine from Israel? No because Israel's tactics have not brought peace, unlike the relative peace the US/UK actions have brought to Afghanistan
Would you be willing to participate in a group that delivers aid to a country where most of the people you are trying to aid will shoot you at the back when you do it? And no, I don't just speak this way because I am on the Israeli side - it is the truth.
Glad to continue our friendly argument 
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Nivek
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posted August 24, 2002 03:02 AM |
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There are 2 major drawbacks to our plan to attack Iraq:
(1) Barely any support for Bush, and
(2) Civilian casualties
Bush has little support for this, not just from other countries but also from Congress. The only ones who seem to support this are Bush and his administration... it's more of a vote-grabbing action than anything. Can't forget the oil benefits over there in the Middle East as well. It's bad enough that we're pissing off the Middle East by supporting Israel in a war with Palestine where both sides are at fault, and now we're going to piss off angry Arabs that are more than willing to kill themselves to take out Americans?
And there are going to be a snowload of civilian casualties if the U.S. invades Iraq. Hussein doesn't give a damn about the Iraq general populace, so guess where the majority of the fighting is going to be? That's right, . The drawback is that U.S. forces are likely going to be less relucant firing because of the possibiility of killing civilians, which provides an edge. And just air strikes aren't going to accomplish much; look at Kosovo. Hussein is going to bail out as soon as he sees that the Iraqi army is screwed, and it'll be OBL all over again; we'll have little to no idea where the heck he is.
Here's a good link about similar opinions about this:
[url]http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/letters/20020818edissuone3.asp[/url]
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privatehudson
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posted August 24, 2002 03:02 AM |
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The army may not shoot civilians (which I classify as people NOT firing or holding a gun, or lobbing rocks at people), but You see on the news tanks firing 120mm shells into buildings, bombs falling in towns and cities where civilians are sheltering. OK so this is not the entire picture, but it cannot be ignored can it?
The palestinians had rights 50 years ago, torn from them then and never reinstated. They may not have had a country, but neither did half of that area. Suddenley they are denied their right to decide their fate, denied a say in important matters and since then many are treated as second class citizens. look at it from their side they lost their right to a country (wrongly promised to them and Israel during WWI by Britain)and are bound to ask what right has Israel got to that land? The answer is the UN, UK and USA punished the Palestinians for the errors made by Nazi Germany and stuff the palestinians rights
Of course they have no rights to what you say, but they have others, like the right to govern themselves and not have settlers put on their land that Israel itself promised them.
On the last point you misunderstand me, my point is that Israel is not getting peace at the moment, it is getting bloodshed plain and simple. I merely meant even if Israel did achieve peace, what is the chances that the Government would aid those areas that were levelled in the recent attacks of april? Not good I imagine, probably no higher than the chance of Palestinian terrorists ever being caught and brought to justice by Arafat.
A major difference comes from the fact that at a basic level of government (note not people) the two sides in Israel HATE eachother and both would be perfectly happy if the other disapeared. The US and UK went into Afghanistan with the attitude of do the job of removing the taliban and then deal with the people on the ground and deal with them in a humane fashion. there was no great Hatred at government level.
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bjorn190
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posted August 24, 2002 03:47 AM |
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Lets just bomb everyone and let God sort it out
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IYY
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REDACTED
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posted August 24, 2002 03:52 AM |
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First of all, I am sure that when Israel bombs a city, they always aim for the terrorist headquarters and not just random houses where civilians are hiding. And at the same time the Palestinians use the Russian "Katyusha" missles that just hit a random location - and most likley an innocent city (and that happened a lot).
Also, I must say that those arabs who live in Israel are not treated as second class citizens - they have the same rights as any other citizen in Israel. I had arabic students in my school and I must say that their families were often a lot richer than most jewish families in the area.
Quote:
I merely meant even if Israel did achieve peace, what is the chances that the Government would aid those areas that were levelled in the recent attacks of april? Not good I imagine, probably no higher than the chance of Palestinian terrorists ever being caught and brought to justice by Arafat.
In fact, I think that the chances are very high - because Israel does help many disadvantaged people and after a achieving peace it would certainly aid all of those areas that they destroyed.
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dArGOn
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posted August 24, 2002 09:20 AM |
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Shadow_Phoenix
LOL…with a thread title like this I couldn’t resist replying.
I appreciate your differentiating between Bush and America…but as an American I can say Bush is right on target.
Now you mention proof? Well that would be a nice thing to know…but given the complexity of the situation…what exactly would you like a written statement from OBL admitting to the offense? Things of this complexity can rarely be proved to the general public for national security reasons. The fact that most of the world supported the US in their actions should qualm any fears one might have that there isn’t enough evidence to prove he did it. The governments have been briefed on such concerns but for numerous reasons the general public has not been given a connect the dot picture.
Would I like to see the connect the dots…yeah…but then most investigations of an international nature would crumble given that terrorism is an incredibly underground situation. I mean what are they suppose to do…say informant A on this date found this? Well goodbye informant…either they would be killed or become useless as the terrorist would sway from any further contact. In the end we trust…right or wrong we trust our leaders in free democracies until it can be proved that they dishonored the trust.
As far as destroyed a nation???? You got to be kidding…destroyed…how about liberated in the literal sense of the word!…woman were not allowed to vote, woman were not allowed to do numerous things that were their rights. Anyone who spoke against Taliban/Al Qaeda was killed…how about that for destroyed???? What about all historical monuments that were destroyed by those freedom loving Taliban/ Al Qaeda? How about all the Afghan people who fought with US and the allies to free Afghanistan?
Iraq doesn’t have the power to attack anything? Well there again you are misinformed…everyone knows that he has the capability for weapons of mass destruction. If he is so pure if he doesn’t have anything to hide…why did he kick the UN investigators out years ago? He has violently attacked innocents on numerous occasions in the past…so how many people must die before you deem him a “real” threat?
Frankly I think there are too many limp wristed linguine Euro politicians who have made trade agreements with Iraq to stand up and say NO to him…they are merely thinking of their trade agreements they hope to salvage. Oil oh precious oil…they sell their souls. Thankfully there are countries who have leaders with balls like Blair who can stand up for what is right as Churchill did against Hitler!
As far as trees…yeah tree cause fire….big bulletin…who doesn’t know that? For all the tree huggers out there I have two comments. One please immediately vacate your home as it was made out….oh no say it ain’t so…TREES! Also please don’t use any paper, visit your local grocery store, etc. Do these tree huggers realize that trees are a crop…got that crop! Where are all these environmental wackos when it comes to corn, tomatoes, etc. Why aren’t they protesting the devastation in all of our crops? “oh it is so horrible they plucked 5 million carrots right from there innocent roots…it is so horrible”. Fact…the USA has NEVER had as many trees in its recorded history as it does now….wait that can’t be true…we cut so many down…yes but we also plant so many more trees and have better resources to fight devastating fires which use to consume enormous amount of trees.
If you are more afraid of Bush than Sadaam you are truly and completely ignorant fellow. Where the heck do you get off even attempting to make a foolish comparison like that??????? Only an imbecile (which I am sure does not include you…you are most likely just misinformed) would compare a dictator who has murdered thousands to one who is the freely elected president of a democracy!
Privatehudson
Nice and well thought out posts except for the Israel stuff
Nivek
Yes the points you mention are drawbacks…but who cares on the whole…as mentioned before….Churchill alone stood against Hitler…even his own people wouldn’t listen to him….and millions died due to the worlds indifference. This lesson has been repeated over and over in history. You do the right thing…period…don’t wait for consensus….consensus typically comes after the fact…it is typically reactionary instead of proactive.
As far as the US congress…you got to be kidding..Bush will/has complete support…only the democrats are slyly casting seeds of doubt as elections are in 3 months. Notice they don’t actually take a stand…that way if it works out they can claim…I was right behind him…if it doesn’t ‘t work out they can claim…hey I had concerns to begin with.
As far as support in America….how about all the polls of Americans that overwhelmingly state their support of a regime change. A little history also might prove helpful…remember Reagan calling USSR and “evil empire”…oh the critics had a field day…and look what happened…the fall of the Wall and the fall of communism…so the critics stand with their genitals in there hands as they have no sight about reality and the world.
Casualties…yeah of course…it is called war. Come on lets stop whining….there are deaths in war… imagine that. When did we become so nieve? There were deaths in WW I in WW II, etc. It is the price that unfortunately must be paid to preserve freedom. Remember all the wimpy critics in the gulf war???? They were predicting untold casualties and fortunately they were dead wrong. Causalities are sad but are part of freedom. US was founded upon death of heroes. Most freedom loving countries were established through blood shed….an unfortunate fact of life.
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Nickman77
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from Poland.
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posted August 24, 2002 09:52 AM |
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I haven`t read this thread... cos I didn`t have time... but my oponion is that he isn`t very good, but if there were Clinton, whilst terrorist have attacked, I think there would be war now... It could be even WW3
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hamsi128
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posted August 24, 2002 10:41 AM |
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Iraq is dangereous and saddam must be stopped .. i live in middleeast ...its easy to talk from far far away...
Iraq has biological weapons and everyday means 1 extra bio 
unfortunately usa has president bush now... and i hope he dont make strategic mistakes in iraq war becus i ll be there fighting too vs saddam and i dont want to be mutated lol
and noone has right to say that in war they dont want that civils die.. war is not good and in wars civils die its like e = mc 2.... in war civils die the only solution to stop civilians loss is not start a war but sometimes you dont have alternatives.
saddam must be stopped before too late.
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