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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 17, 2007 05:24 AM |
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i lived in isreal for a couple of years in my life (technically its my homeland but i move around a bit) and well. life is pretty steady now compared to a while ago. which isnt to say that you cant get bombed in the middle of the street because of the iraqis.im pretty sure 90% of each sides of the population want to end this senseless war over a relatively small country. im not saying that isreali lives are worth more then iraqis ones or anything (please dont misunderstand i really mean this) but you could kill 10 iraqis for every isreali and they would still outnumber what the population would have been before by about several dozen.
were just in a seriously bad situation without the support of other countries. if iraq mobilized for a total war wed just be crushed,
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 17, 2007 09:07 PM |
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Or you would just use your technical advantage and american allies to crush them.
Or you had just  nuked them...
Come on. In the state where Iraq is the only thing they'll mobilize for is civil war.
You sure you weren't talking about Iran
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 18, 2007 04:37 AM |
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i was talking about middle east in general.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 18, 2007 10:48 AM |
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Sorry Anti. Not you but royal griffin.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2007 03:01 PM |
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Quote:
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after all that's happened in Iraq
...and is still happening... :/ Poor people.
I hope the Democracy and freedom that the Coalition forces have bought and paid for with so much blood and loss of life; military and civilian; takes a firm and permanent hold in Iraq.
Perhaps 5, 10 or 20 years from now, history will be kinder about describing the positive intentions of Western society than the current anti-American media and far left political psychos.
I'm very encouraged with the way the Iraqi people have utilized the opportunities they have been given; albeit they have been a bit slow about it, they are finally standing up for themselves and discovering that their future is now going to be decided by their own willingness to confront the Islamic extremists and other internal problems that every nation faces.
With the U.S.'s and our allies continued training and support these people will finally know and exercise the types of freedom every human being should have.
Even if that freedom leads towards creating a government unswayed by Western politics we will still have given them the right to choose their own path.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 19, 2007 03:18 PM |
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Quote:
I hope the Democracy and freedom that the Coalition forces have bought and paid for with so much blood and loss of life; military and civilian; takes a firm and permanent hold in Iraq.
Iran has a democracy. Look at what kind of democracy it has, though. The Iraqis aren't ready for democracy. That's why the US should establish a secular dictatorship there.
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Eccentric Opinion
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muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2007 03:29 PM |
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Edited by muerte at 15:30, 19 Aug 2007.
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The Iraqis aren't ready for democracy. That's why the US should establish a secular dictatorship there.
I'm not sure if you made this post because you are joking or just ignorant. 
In the spirit of remaining civil I will lean towards you attempting humor.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 21, 2007 04:34 AM |
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Quote:
Or you would just use your technical advantage and american allies to crush them.
Or you had just nuked them...
Come on. In the state where Iraq is the only thing they'll mobilize for is civil war.
You sure you weren't talking about Iran
Remember that a nuke is so powerful and were in such close proximity wed blow ourselves up. and yes i was thinking of iraq hehe.but its pretty dangerous either way. crushing them wouldnt work very well these days. History is just written by those who like to critisize right now.
but what i mean is they would honestly use all their population to attack us and we didnt have any allies we would be crushed.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted August 21, 2007 05:44 AM |
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I hope the Democracy and freedom that the Coalition forces have bought and paid for with so much blood and loss of life; military and civilian; takes a firm and permanent hold in Iraq.
Perhaps 5, 10 or 20 years from now, history will be kinder about describing the positive intentions of Western society than the current anti-American media and far left political psychos.
Isn't that kind of like an Iraqi hoping that Saddam Hussein would assume a firm and permanent governmental control of the United States of America?
And your second statement is obviously from your perspective. Which media in particular are you referring to as anti-American? And why use the word psycho?
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 21, 2007 06:04 AM |
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i think hes more onto the idea that its very easy to say that its cruel and stupid to leave the american armies in iraq. but if they left there im damn sure noone would dare come to live in isreal for fear of being killed.basically its very easy to be angry the forces are there if you dont give a damn if isreal gets destroyed and that future generations may take a kinder look at it when its not their children going to war (i can understand people are angry at this though..)
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2007 03:55 PM |
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Edited by muerte at 16:04, 21 Aug 2007.
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Isn't that kind of like an Iraqi hoping that Saddam Hussein would assume a firm and permanent governmental control of the United States of America?
And your second statement is obviously from your perspective. Which media in particular are you referring to as anti-American? And why use the word psycho?
I never said that America or any other country should control Iraq. I said the people there are now free to make their own decisions. How does that equate to some Iraqi wishing Saddam conquered the U.S?
I used the word psycho because it fits.
Far left and far right wingers are psychos. From religious zealotry on the right to anti war zealotry on the left.
As to anti-American sentiment in the media it can be seen everywhere from internet bloggers all the way to the New York Times editorial page.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted August 21, 2007 04:25 PM |
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internet bloggers all the way to the New York Times editorial page.
Those aren't media views. Those are just regular people views.
My point is that there are many different subdivisions of groups and opinions and unless you are very specific I have no idea who you are talking about.
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muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2007 05:06 PM |
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Quote:
My point is that there are many different subdivisions of groups and opinions and unless you are very specific I have no idea who you are talking about.
Are you saying you want to argue the specifics of which media outlets it is I believe are and/or are not anti-American?
What would be the point?
I just want history to be written more kindly and more accurately then it would if it was left to be written by the Rosie O'Donald's and the Jane Fonda's in the media.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 21, 2007 05:09 PM |
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Quote:
I'm not sure if you made this post because you are joking or just ignorant. /quote]
I am neither joking nor ignorant. Think about it. Iran is a democracy, and look whom they elected. Iraq would be no different. That's why they need to get used to having a secular government that doesn't commit genocide, before they can have democracy.
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Eccentric Opinion
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted August 21, 2007 05:15 PM |
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Are you saying you want to argue the specifics of which media outlets it is I believe are and/or are not anti-American?
What would be the point?
The point is you are obviously getting your information from somewhere. If I know from where I'll know where you are coming from and I could say oh well I think this place has more accurate information etc.
Most of the time in political discussion people do not have the same definitions for terms and can not agree on accepted sources of information which are often contradictory.
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I just want history to be written more kindly and more accurately then it would if it was left to be written by the Rosie O'Donald's and the Jane Fonda's in the media.
I'll agree with that statement.
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muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2007 05:41 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Are you saying you want to argue the specifics of which media outlets it is I believe are and/or are not anti-American?
What would be the point?
The point is you are obviously getting your information from somewhere. If I know from where I'll know where you are coming from and I could say oh well I think this place has more accurate information etc.
Most of the time in political discussion people do not have the same definitions for terms and can not agree on accepted sources of information which are often contradictory.
Quote:
I understand where you are coming from now.
And I agree that it's difficult to agree on acceptable sources.
That's one of the reasons why I don't see the point. We could lob sources back and forth like a tennis match, and in the end we may never agree.
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muerte
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2007 08:34 PM |
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Edited by muerte at 20:58, 21 Aug 2007.
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I am neither joking nor ignorant. Think about it. Iran is a democracy, and look whom they elected. Iraq would be no different. That's why they need to get used to having a secular government that doesn't commit genocide, before they can have democracy.
Fair enough, I retract my comment about joking or ignorance along with a sincere apology.
I'm sorry about my comment.
But why do you think that the U.S. should install a secular government?
Why do you think the Iraqi's are incapable of Democracy?
It's hard enough to establish a Democracy under the best of circumstances.
America's Revolutionary war lasted 8 years and we didn't elect our first President until 6 years after the war was over. So if we are the Democracy to model all others after it seems a bit hypocritical to expect others to be a bit faster about it than we were. ( awaits the inevitable firestorm this comment brings )
To be honest even after more than 2 centuries we still don't have all the bugs worked out.
All I'm saying is that the Iraqi's are moving in the right direction even though it seems a bit slow even to me.
As to your comment about Iran's government it's a tough call, even in a Democracy you are going to have worthless politicians like a Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or a Bill Clinton slip through the cracks and get elected by an unsuspecting populace! 
you may now all clobber me en masse!
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 21, 2007 11:16 PM |
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Fair enough, I retract my comment about joking or ignorance along with a sincere apology.
Apology accepted.
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But why do you think that the U.S. should install a secular government?
Do you want it to establish a religious government?
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Why do you think the Iraqi's are incapable of Democracy?
Because they have too many radical clerics who would turn it into a theocracy at the drop of a hat.
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America's Revolutionary war lasted 8 years and we didn't elect our first President until 6 years after the war was over. So if we are the Democracy to model all others after it seems a bit hypocritical to expect others to be a bit faster about it than we were. ( awaits the inevitable firestorm this comment brings )
American democracy isn't as good as it claims it is.
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All I'm saying is that the Iraqi's are moving in the right direction even though it seems a bit slow even to me.
They aren't moving; they're being moved by the Americans. And they're not ready.
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As to your comment about Iran's government it's a tough call, even in a Democracy you are going to have worthless politicians like a Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or a Bill Clinton slip through the cracks and get elected by an unsuspecting populace!
1. Bill Clinton wasn't a worthless politician. He was one of the best Presidents the US has ever had.
2. Ahmadinejad didn't "slip through the cracks".
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Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted August 22, 2007 12:10 AM |
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Bill Clinton one of the best presidents we've ever had? Uh... no.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 22, 2007 01:49 AM |
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I Believe That He Was
He is the only president to have ever successfully balanced the federal budget. We had a surplus during his presidency, not a deficit. It took a Clinton to get us out of the last war in the Middle East and it will take another to get us out of this Middle Eastern war. When Clinton lied nobody died.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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