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mvassilev
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posted August 22, 2007 02:24 AM |
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It took a Clinton to get us out of the last war in the Middle East and it will take another to get us out of this Middle Eastern war.
Consis, I agree with everything you said here except for this statement. Physically, it's not that hard to get out of Iraq. Just put every soldier on a boat home. The hard part is what you're going to leave behind you: chaos. Do you want another terrorist training ground? Because they'll keep targeting us until we stop propping up Musharraf, supporting Israel, and get out of Afghanistan. But the Iraqis aren't ready for democracy. They'd elect another Ahmadinejad. What we need is someone like Musharraf, Reza Pahlevi, or Ataturk for Iraq. Preferrably pro-US. They need to get used to a secular government that doesn't perform genocide. If the oil revenues get their living standard up, they'll be ready for democracy in a generation or two.
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Binabik
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posted August 22, 2007 02:48 AM |
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It took a Clinton to get us out of the last war in the Middle East
That's a neat trick considering the war was over long before he even took office.
I would also argue that we might not have the mess in Iraq that we have now if Clinton and other world leaders had done their job after the first Iraqi war and enforced the UN resolutions.
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antipaladin
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 22, 2007 05:02 AM |
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let me enlighten you...
Who gave ahamndjiad hes power?
back in the 90-80,israel and iran had a signed an agreedmend,they decided that the prviouse iranik ruler wasent fit to rule it,so we israel,and our benefector the USA, supported finaccily and weaponery to ahmandjiad's predessesor,who perepd the stages for him,when he was overthrown,and he was overtheron,ahamndjiad was with full gear. Israel own "good attention" betrayed itself. This is what happends still.
Israel finaces the Fatah,with american money,and in few yuears the Fatah will declar war. It's just a metter of time really,untill they all unite.
Plus if it botherd them so much that israel rule took peaople out of palastine which is actually gaza strip and the other reagion i forget its english name,then why they DID NOT accept them into jordan,egypt lebnon or even iran?
Thouse so called "brothers" of they'res are not even accepted into there teritory,they are afride to have them retaking there jobs,so we shouldnt?
Israel is now a JEWISH-DEMOCRATIC country,its more religouse based laws,then strictly democratic,its not perfect,nothing is,but atleast its not as currpted as the US is.
In the police for insteance,in israel there is little respect for cops.
You can say that im a cop.
If you are called by names such as "pig" or "sneach" you cannot get out of the car and beat the crap out of him like in USA. Infect untill he actually asults you ,you cannot touch him,and when he does you can do reasnbull force: One deegree above hes.
However israel is very homenic contry. War veterns are reciving big priviliges. The goverment fonds them cars,houses,good payment,depends on sevirty of the injury.
The balance in the police is that cops retire early ,if im not mistaken at 55,and with 5-6 per mounth,but again it depends at what rank.
Now you ask why i wrote all this? its not entirely off topic.
after all this you ask the question,were does the money coming from?
take a wild guess...
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types in obscure english
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2007 05:10 PM |
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The US can't afford to fully (economically, politically, and militarially) get out of the Middle East, but, until it does, it will face opposition from radical Islam. There are two solutions:
1. Find a viable alternative source of energy. Then we won't need the Middle East anymore, and we can stop supporting Israel and propping up Musharraf.
2. We can increase our support of Israel and Musharraf, set up a secular dictatorship in Iraq, and create secular pro-American movements in the Middle East, and encourage them to overthrow all Islamic rule. Then we can establish very advantageous oil concessions.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 22, 2007 09:52 PM |
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i honestly wonder that if an alternative for oil comes up the americans will just say "hey after a couple of years helping you were going to go back home and let you all get slaughtered and let this extremist country do whatever it likes and maybe eventually attacking the whole world bye-bye"
seems a bit unlikely. i dont think oil is the only motive and it never was
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2007 10:19 PM |
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i honestly wonder that if an alternative for oil comes up the americans will just say "hey after a couple of years helping you were going to go back home and let you all get slaughtered and let this extremist country do whatever it likes and maybe eventually attacking the whole world bye-bye"
Since they wouldn't have an interest in the region any more, the smart thing to do would be to leave. The US has no obligation to be involved in the Middle East. There are two reasons why the US is there:
1. Oil.
2. Some crazy people want a religious crusade against Islam.
If we won't need oil, then we won't be there any more. (The crazy people don't carry enough weight on their own.)
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 22, 2007 11:17 PM |
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the president who does that will probably be considered crazy after all that talk about how it is a threat and well i dont doubt they have nuclear weapon there somewhere.
still i suppose it might as well be bush (if anyone does it at all) since everyone already thinks hes crazy
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2007 11:22 PM |
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Actually, if Bush did that, I would say that he's seen the light. Unfortunately, he never will.
The president who does that won't be considered crazy. Is Ron Paul considered crazy? Because he knows that it is our foreign policy that caused September 11th.
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antipaladin
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted August 22, 2007 11:40 PM |
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You do gona piss people up if u say supporiting the middle east coused 9\11.
I liked you so far...
The middle east does needs supporting,from the USA so far,yes,why? becouse were' one country against 10,and it is your buisness,every contery should support us,or battle them. Becouse your next.
Muslim fondamentalism is dangerus,and it will take you all out eventually.
Currently europe is very much fooled with muslim,the middle east has one JEWIS-American socicety,who battles the.
They have 10 countrys,were bearly have one,and we cant have that?!
thats unfair,thats is ofcourse,why israel never had lost a war in the last 60years. This is why we never sourdend.
This is not patritosm.
its just that america should support Israel in it war against terrorism, 9\11 happend not becouse of bush,that he helped us,but becouse of the terrorists that threaten to freedom,to doing what the **** you can do without anyone threading you.
Yes,current freedom is not perfect,but under suni muslim rule,of terrorist it will be MUCH worse. Thats way fatah fights in gaza against other terroroist circules.
Why lebonon was counqerd by hizbala and brought done by israel last year,why lebononise president was assissnate by syria or iran.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 23, 2007 01:09 AM |
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It is partially the US's support of Israel that caused 9/11. I didn't say that Israel caused it. In the Middle East, people are unhappy with the US's policies regarding that region. Thus, 9/11. The US should either completely conquer the region, or get out of it completely. The second is far easier and cheaper than the first. It would be the better choice. The well-being of other nations is not our primary concern. The well-being of our own is.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted August 23, 2007 02:15 AM |
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well being selfish is all fine and well. but if you lack the foresight to see that the muslim are a pretty serious threat, well
anyway i still think people wouldnt call bush rational for sending troops there getting some killed and then leaving when scientists discover a oil alternative. except of course the families of the soldiers who came back but thats just because theyre happy for them mostly. not out of thought
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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mvassilev
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posted August 23, 2007 03:00 AM |
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the muslim are a pretty serious threat
That statement is pretty offensive. The radical Islamic Middle Eastern terrorists are only a threat to those who intefere in their affairs. If we stop bothering them, they'll stop bothering us. They came over here because we came over there. It's called blowback. Now, Israel will still be threatened, but if we don't need the Middle East, we won't really need allies in that region.
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i still think people wouldnt call bush rational for sending troops there getting some killed and then leaving
He already admitted that it was a mistake to invade. All that there's left to do is stablize the situation and leave.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 23, 2007 07:42 AM |
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You do gona piss people up if u say supporiting the middle east coused 9\11.
I liked you so far...
The middle east does needs supporting,from the USA so far,yes,why? becouse were' one country against 10,and it is your buisness,every contery should support us,or battle them. Becouse your next.
Muslim fondamentalism is dangerus,and it will take you all out eventually.
Currently europe is very much fooled with muslim,the middle east has one JEWIS-American socicety,who battles the.
They have 10 countrys,were bearly have one,and we cant have that?!
thats unfair,thats is ofcourse,why israel never had lost a war in the last 60years. This is why we never sourdend.
This is not patritosm.
Do you recall what happened in the last real war you had with them? I think you won. Relatively easily if I remember correctly and they even caught you napping. Three weeks isn't that the longest war you've had? Of course you had material support from but USA still 2700 soldiers as a loss aren't much for a war.
IMO you have enough power to defend yourself from them.
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antipaladin
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posted August 23, 2007 08:02 AM |
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@MV well israel supports usa too with oil,and you need allys enyware anyway doesnt metter.
@Jonass too 3 weeks is our shortest war not longest,the second lebononise war was shortest,we had six years war...
but this was a war against only lebnon ,rather hisballah who took over the goverment and the miletery,and turned it into gurrila war.
if syria,iran,egypt,jordon,lebonon decided to strike israel down all at once,israel has little chances.
A nuclear bomb landed on israel will consueme both lebnon both syria.
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Binabik
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posted August 23, 2007 08:17 AM |
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The six day war didn't last very long. Several Arab states were prepared to gang up on Israel and wipe them off the map. With good training, good planning, surprise and luck, Israel hurt them bad enough to cripple their military.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 23, 2007 08:20 AM |
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antipaladin
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posted August 23, 2007 08:54 AM |
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i think it wasent actually it lasted six weeks didnt it? i dont remmber very good,but it was a tad longer then this.
and binabik this is what we ussally do,we just small in numbers.
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Binabik
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posted August 23, 2007 09:02 AM |
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I thought the six day war really lasted six days. I guess it depends on what you call a war and what you call a battle. The fighting in the Sanai lasted at least another ten years until the Camp David Accord.
Surprisingly, that peace treaty has lasted all this time. I don't know how people in Israel feel, but I don't think I would consider Egypt a threat under the current leadership.
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antipaladin
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posted August 23, 2007 09:33 AM |
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actually there isent much of a threat from egypt but it could arise under certian circumestences,imagine this,who funds hisballah?
IMO? Iran,ahamnjidad,that dwarf. (and yes i do hate hes guts).
iran and syria pose largest threat . lebnon is re-armed and ready to action.
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Binabik
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posted August 23, 2007 09:45 AM |
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Yea, I think Iran is a serious threat and they will probably be the last arab nation to stay under control of the fundamentalists.
Syria and Lebenon are small by themselves. I think if they quit getting backing from outsiders they will chill out and quit acting like big shots. They act tough, but only when they have big friends ready to back them up.
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