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| Thread: Immortality potions, what do TOH members think of them? | |
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Oh_Smeg
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 09, 2002 11:30 AM |
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Immortality potions, what do TOH members think of them?
I am planning to modify my maps to remove the immortality potions and would appreciate members thoughts.
Indeed, do people think that the immortality potions should be removed at all?
Anyway, before going ahead, I'd like to know what people think generally about this issue. Is the immortality potion rush common in multiplayer?
I'm not sure if the moderators will move this post to the library but as it is a TOH issue, thought it best to post here.
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2002 12:34 PM |
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its a bad Idea
its thesame as remove chaining from h4
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2002 12:36 PM |
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted October 09, 2002 12:57 PM |
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I thought about this issue a few times before..
I don't find anyway that the immortality is bad.. but I've played 6 games so far. But I do find that immortality do some good and some bad things..
Without them games will be longer generally, and a town such as might will really struggle on most multiplayer maps.
But Maybe theres a way in the editor to place a blacksmith or some such structure behind some lv3 creatures? on each players side of the map and make it the only spot to buy immortality?
I don't really know just some thoughts.
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The Dead Walk!!!
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acid
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 09, 2002 04:24 PM |
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hello,
without the immortality-potions some things change very much ... A good tactics-hero is nothing then without a good defense and magic resistance (by artifacts, combat or whatever) for example.
Angels would be very nice then as they can resurrect heroes ... same with devine intervention ...
No, I am against removing the potions.
acid
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted October 09, 2002 04:33 PM |
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At this point I hate to see ANYTHING removed from the game.
We need to learn a little about it first.
Immortality potion rush should be easy to handle if it becomes a problem.
Next we will remove the Snipers Bow, it's too damn powerful!
And I remember someone lost a game because they found a bag of gold and the other guy thought it was unfair!
We should be finding counters to any thing that becomes a problem, not removing it.
If a map is small and Red has a straight shot to the Blue town (or whatever) there should not be a free potion sitting outside his door for sure. That would not be a good map. But.... it's not the potions fault. 
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted October 09, 2002 05:39 PM |
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pREACH iT cRAIG!
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted October 09, 2002 07:24 PM |
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I'd hate to see immortality potions taken out of the game, of course it had never even occured to me to use them for a hero rush either.. seems like a kinda silly tactic to me anyways lol
I would think for the most part tho, immortality potions wouldn't be abused and it shouldn't be a problem. The way i play right now if they were taken out, i'd spend at least 3 weeks per game traveling back to my town or a sanctuary with tombstones 
I'm with Craig Hack, lets not take anything out! (except maybe that game ending gold bag  ) Heck, I don't even know what half the stuff is anyways so if it starts getting taken out already, i'll never learn
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Tortoise
Known Hero
Master of Reptiles.
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posted October 09, 2002 07:31 PM |
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Well first things first if and whenn you have an all out brawl between two generals and their army's then 1 thing will most likely happen. whoever goes first will kill his opposing mage leader. Then when its his turn he'll have to use another potion.. this totally disables his mage unless he wants to die next time a ranged or spellcaster comes around.. so i think turn order is very important! if you took out potions you would have to set some guidlines on killing leaders first in battle...
Consider Britains old code of war, they would not shoot officers during combat and full quarter would be given to anyone who surrendered. SO i think it may be along those lines..... More fair anyhow... I recently played a chaos army vs my Necro army, i had devils and i could have killed his mage first off however i didn't bother since i had about 50 vamps so i was just messing around, but if it was important his mage wouldn't have had a chance to do any major dmg... I think some serious rules and regs need to be made on hero fighting/combat rules. Might heroes are obviously another physical unit and i suppose can be killed whenever however, but mage heroes just need that xtra little hand especially when fighting towns who have the jump on speed like Devils in Necropolis.
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All living things have a history. The history of the Tortoise is long and rich.
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2002 08:17 PM |
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I have to say that the map decides whether hero rush is an option or not. If there are lots of power ups and/or artifacts and/or quick way to the enemy then it is definitely an option. There is two of them (maybe more usual than the rest):
However, hero rush is not so invulnerable strategy in some maps. Sure, you can have 100+ Immortality Potions with your beefed up combat hero, but that doesn't mean that you can win more typical hero + creatures force. There are just too many options to kill such a hero.
A: Damage the Barbarian (of course, it CAN be Ranger or any other hero too, just not as likely) close to 0 health before he has had to have use potion. Then plan your attacks so that take the hero out first with creature that does sufficient damage to kill the hero and then attack it with all your forces that are available to attack the hero. Take the speed and possible morale bonuses into note, so that the Barbarian has no chance to drink another Immortality Potion. And moreover, you should kill the Barbarian as fast as possible as longer battle is usually in favour of Barbarian (unless the Barbarian is disabled somehow, like Blind). This tactic may be viable depending whether the player who uses the Barbarian has realized to buy Healing Potions or not. How many of you have done so?
B: Dispel or Cancel the Immortality Potion. Hire another Necromancer or Wizard when the enemy Barbarian nears your castle. Time it and your creatures' attacks so that you can take the Barbarian out before he has chance to drink another Immortality Potion.
If this tactic(s) worked, be glad. You are now a happy, new owner of 100+ Immortality Potions.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 09, 2002 10:12 PM |
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nothing wrong with immortality potions
let them be; since most potions are useless to most combat situations, at least we have one that is useful. And it isnt cheap either!
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bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
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posted October 09, 2002 10:54 PM |
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yes potions of immortality are tough, but neccesary. I get killed and have them on all the time. Steal enchantment, or dispel or many things work against this. I don't know if you know this but if you use a potion of imm. in a combat and it is not used it carries over until it is used =)
But i dont think it would be a good idea to take it out of the game it is partially what makes the game unique.
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god please spare me from my contribulations
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 10, 2002 01:53 AM |
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Told ya
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Oh_Smeg
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 10, 2002 09:30 AM |
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Quote:
Told ya
Lol yea, you told me Aculias.
Seems my concerns about potential abuses of immortality potions are not shared by TOH members.
I still feel there is room there for abuse and cheap rushes but as most games seem to be between friends and people who know each other I can understand how it is not an issue.
I read a review of Barbarian Duels by Psychobabble that gave me the impression the only effective (ie winning) way to play the map was rushing and wanted to remove this cheap tactic from play.
Well, if people are comfortable with immortality potions, I'll leave the maps be.
Thanks for the thoughts guys.
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Psychobabble
Known Hero
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posted October 10, 2002 01:58 PM |
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That is a map which lends itself particularly well to rushes - it is very open and there are no neutral stacks between players. It is also a barbarian map so a couple of level 8 heroes with GM combat can be quite an effective army. The rushing on that map was the distinct impression given to me playing it twice in MP and speaking to some other players... but I may be wrong.
I think it's just the style of map Barbarian duels is (and I don't mind it), I don't think imm potions/major rushes are a big problem in the game in general... I wouldn't disable the potions.
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H4TCG Review
H4 Map Reviews
Successful trades w/Teuta and doc
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BlackAngel
Hired Hero
ArchAngel of death Honor
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posted October 11, 2002 01:49 AM |
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No , why to remove them? I think that`s a bad ideea. It whill change the hole game (in a bad way ).
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Death is a good thing for some of us. By-BlackAngel
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 11, 2002 02:50 AM |
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rushes?
with high castle defence, you can smother attacking barbarians; and even better, make barbarians of your own of same caliber.
Im not sure what people worry about rushes...if opponent is so weak, he is going to lose anyways... long game or short.
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