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| Thread: trench warfare |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted June 06, 2001 11:48 AM |
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trench warfare
hey guys!!
i haven't list an idea here for a long time and i might have one that might change the way u play HoMM(figuratively speaking of course)
i was a reading a novel the other day and the idea of trench warfare striked me rather ....well....and imagine what u can do with it... 
there is two way we can have this to include in our game..
the first being obviously as a secondary skill...with this skill, if someone attack u or/and the other way around u have trench right in front of u(a moat without water)...this way it will solw down the enemy like quick sand and without using an extra round of spell casting for quicksand(let's face it guys how many of us really use quicksand?,..it's totally useless...well almost...we might as well add it as a skill)and best of all it remains there...and maybe at expert level we have steaks at the trench...when a unit comes across it gets damaged....
the second one strikes rather original...there will be an extra button at the adventuring option called "dig trench"...this ability will take a whole day and it will be the same as above instead of as a secondary skill...and at the adventuring screen we can see a trench symbol and the trench will stay there until a battle are fought there...think of the possibilties...if placed at the right place(a narrow road) it might make all the differences.
okay i know what u guys are thinking about now...it is like carrying a castle in your pocket where ever u go...but it won't be that powerful..i mean if u think this is powerful, talk at tactics..this is just an opposite substitution for this powerful skill.
another suggestion i like to mention is building a fort in the adventuring map...i mean in reality u can't really earn money in a fort(much like the fort in "cilvilisation: call to power") and unlike trench it will stay in the map forever unless the enemy decided to destroy it.
so tell me what u think guys...always like to hear opinions...
wiz
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"knowledge and power at the tips of my fingers"
words of wisdom
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted June 07, 2001 02:15 AM |
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Interesting Idea You Have there
I rather like the idea, mostly about the forts part. I would really like to build forts on the adventure map, it would be interesting to see what woudl happen. It may be too powerful though. Well, if you added just a wall and a few land mines then it wouldn't be too powerful.
And, for some reason I never thought of tactics as such a powerful thing.
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-LadyLily
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 07, 2001 10:39 AM |
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Hi, Wizardboy,
Trench warfare is an interesting idea. It adds more strategic elements to the game.
Well, since now we may have 5 levels for every skill. Maybe trench digging will be possible for master level of tactics. Some source says that for master level of tactic, you can even set ambush !!! Wow, that maybe makes tactic too powerful as a skill.
Just a little addition, maybe trench can be used by your own units. Hide your troops in trench will reduce the damage received from ranged attack. But will slow down your troops as well.
For the quicksand, yep, it is not a popular spell. But with some improvements (e.g. those suggested by Space3999 in the thread "Precast"), quicksand can be more useful.
Keep going with your creativity.
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted June 29, 2001 02:28 PM |
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thanks.......
thanks guys and gals...
haven't been here for a while but it's good to hear good messages...thanks for the encouragement guys..but i was hoping more agreements on this issue..
i know that probably because they have already decide what they are gonna do with HOMM4 but it's never too late to give some creative ideas u know....they might just be listening....maybethey will use it for HOMM5????
u never know!!!
see ya guys and thanks again!!!
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 Where do u go when you have gone too far?
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted June 29, 2001 02:33 PM |
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Trench digging sounds good, but it could easily be made too powerful. I think the suggestion that it be added to Tactics is probably the best way to utilize it.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted June 29, 2001 09:25 PM |
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Trench warfare
Hmm....well you know trench warfare is only really effective in combination with firearms. In fact I believe it was mostly machine guns that made trench warfare any good. So we may have to wait for the heroes world to get a bit more technologicaly advanced before we will see it.
In medieval warfare like Heroes, getting into a trench would be really stupid because it would give the enemy the higher ground, and reduce your mobility.
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted June 30, 2001 01:18 AM |
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...well yes, it seems that most often the armies would be at a much larger disadvantage when in trenches...large open spaces with holes in the ground and more constricted movement...probably not even much brush to hide behind either...
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This space for rent.
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted July 01, 2001 06:02 AM |
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more trench ideas....
thanks for the ideas guys...
i see what u guys are trying to say...as for the machine guns bit we could replace it with archers you know..
and as for being stuck there waiting for enemy archers to get hit...well we could always use the trenches to slow the enemy's movement...that's right...who ever attacks the trenches has to waste a days movement (because they need to clear everyone out of the trenches)if they win and if they lose...hooray to the trenches!!!
i mean you probably wouldn't use this with your main hero but many times we have heaps of useless hero that doesn't do anything much except to get weekly bonuse such as water wheels etc...with this addition we have something else to do...and besides in case your hero needs an extra day to go back to the main castle this baby will buy us some time... and god we all know what help this can be...
anyways thanks guys...
ps keep the comments coming!!
Wiz
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Where do u go when you have gone too far?
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted July 02, 2001 12:45 AM |
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Well trenches wouldn't work quite so well with archers, they need alot more space to fire their bows and the limited mobility of the trenches would get in their ways. Also one of the key strengths of archers historicaly is their mobility and archers in trenches would be sitting ducks for a cavalry raid or even any infantry who got among them. Arrows are also much more effective from higher ground then they are from lower ground. Remember one of the key points of medieval military strategy is to take the high ground, not dig a hole and give your enemy the high ground.
All in all the idea of trenches also just seems a little to modern for a fantasy game.
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El_Diablo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Lord of Terror
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posted July 02, 2001 02:17 AM |
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i like the idea but what about ridges like in c&c and aoe?
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*Welcome to Hell*
~~*El Diablo*~~
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted July 02, 2001 12:55 PM |
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more trenches.....
hmm....something i haven't though about....well trenches will definetly work against calvalry to tell u the truth...actually they work especially well against calvalry....i mean i know horse are dumb but would they dumb enough to run straight through something that is shatp and pointy? No, i didn't think so either.
secondly, in real life calvalry without a mount are TOTALLY useless, and i do mean totally useless...i mean the guy spend his whole life to be one with the horse and suddenly his friend had a stick poking through him on the other side...i mean think of the reaction he will have when the horse throws him right into the trenches...WHAT THE F**K??
Well i got the whol trench idea from the latest novel from David Eddings...the redemption of Althalus..aw man it's great....if any of u want to know more about hardcore trench warefare in description....u will now know where to go...
anyway back to trenches...what do u mean by ridges diablo??? explain more pls...thanks
Wiz
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Where do u go when you have gone too far?
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El_Diablo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Lord of Terror
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posted July 02, 2001 01:02 PM |
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i mean like different levels of land, like a small cliff down to more land, and u can only get from one level to the next where the land levels out, i cant really explain more, if u want to know more still though, play comand and conquer, or age of empires, ridges r in both games, probably by downloading a demo (if there r demos for these games, i dont know) u may be able to see, i know in aoe2 theres a demo, and on the last trial level there r ridges i know, and on the non campaign level that they let u play, there r ridges, u'll know what they r when u see them, trust me
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*Welcome to Hell*
~~*El Diablo*~~
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted July 02, 2001 01:40 PM |
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whoa mama....
ah..thanks..i know what u mean now...u mean like a slope right??
hmmm....that will be interesting....
oh..i just think of another thing....if there is a bridge in heroes wouldn't it be cool...for decoration...or.....
imagine this...u have a trench...and a bride....and a trench....so what if he past the first one...i can just imaginethe expression on his face...
not another one! god i should get a pay rise....for attacking these god damn trenches....
wouldn't it b cool???
Wiz
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted July 02, 2001 06:06 PM |
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Wizardboy, you kind of lost me there about the pointy sticks and cavalry, it must be a language barrier thing. I'm not quite sure where the pointy sticks are coming from in the first place.
Now if we are talking entrenched pikemen, they would be quite strong against cavalry, but they would be ripped to shreds by infantry or archers. And considering that pikemen are quite strong against cavalry even while not entrenched, entrenching seems rather unnecesary.
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted July 04, 2001 01:47 AM |
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my mistake....
Quote:
Wizardboy, you kind of lost me there about the pointy sticks and cavalry, it must be a language barrier thing. I'm not quite sure where the pointy sticks are coming from in the first place.[qoute]
ah...thanks for pointing out my mistake....
i have been ahead of myself it seems...well in the book i have mentioned before that there was an awesome trench fight???
well it does seem that a lot of ppl see that trenches are totally useless....well why not brighten up our day with....um...let say a lot of pointy steaks around the trench......
so therefore anyone that comes along gets hit....and does extra to mounted units...
what say u all???
thanks agin for pointing out my mistake...i saw that one coming...really!!
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Where do u go when you have gone too far?
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted July 04, 2001 10:26 PM |
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Pointed Sticks
Ah....pointed sticks around the trench. Well that's certainly reasonable if you have time to set it up. But it's not the easiest thing in the world to carve and plant that many pointed sticks. If your going to the trouble of digging a ditch and surrounding it with pointed sticks, you could just as easily build a low wall which would be a real advantage on the battle field, and not have much in the way of disadvantages at all.
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted July 05, 2001 05:13 AM |
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Quote:
Ah....pointed sticks around the trench. Well that's certainly reasonable if you have time to set it up. But it's not the easiest thing in the world to carve and plant that many pointed sticks. If your going to the trouble of digging a ditch and surrounding it with pointed sticks, you could just as easily build a low wall which would be a real advantage on the battle field, and not have much in the way of disadvantages at all.
Short historical note here:
You carry the sticks with you.
The archers of the English armies of the Hundred Years War pounded stakes in before the battle to reduce the effect of the French cavalry. They carried one or two "sharp pointy things" with them. In a pinch, the 4 pound mauls they used to hammer in those stakes would put a world of hurt on any Frenchman who got too close to shoot at.
The Roman legions had a standard practice of setting up a fortified camp at the end of a day's march. These camps had a trench, the dirt from which was used to build an earth wall. This was topped by a palisade, and often had stakes set into the dirt as well, The legionary carried his gear with the help of a long pole, which could be used as part of the palisade or a stake.
As far as trenches in medieval (pre gunpowder) warfare are concerned...you stand on one side, and make the enemy cross it to get to you, being very careful to avoid them thrusting up under your shield. Been there ..done that (Member of the Society for Creative Anachronism for nearly 20 years..ask me about it offboard if you're curious)
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted July 05, 2001 12:49 PM |
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ah....
hey guys....
this is beautiful...now we can explain where those sticks pop up from....
maybe when we dig a trench it costs wood to build along with the steaks??
oh did i mention that digging a trench takes a full day...
that should explain the times it takes to dig the bloody hole right??
any way i hope more ppl will join in this discussion so we can have more ideas...
ps thanks UnkaHaakon, u saved me a lot of explanation there to niteshade...
Wiz
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Where do u go when you have gone too far?
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted July 05, 2001 06:17 PM |
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Ah well digging a trench and standing on the other side of it is another matter entirely. That's a perfectly effective tactic in battle if you have time to prepare. The key point there though is that you not IN the trench you are on the other side of it. When people talk about trench warfare they are talking about standing inside the trench itself.
So it's perfectly reasonable to dig a trench as part of a fortifaction to ward off the enemy. But to actualy stand inside it is fairly stupid unless your army is armed with modern weaponry.
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wizardboy
Known Hero
Look ma!..a glowing ball...
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posted July 07, 2001 07:47 AM |
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hi!!
um..thanks for the reply niteshade...i guess we do have an misundrstanding between these posts....well i guessed it's figured out now...
what do u think of the fort idea....and what do u think of the trench idea now???
Wiz
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Where do u go when you have gone too far?
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