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| Thread: Map balance discussion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Hidden
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 27, 2002 09:06 PM |
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Map balance discussion
Hi
I like to play maps where you can choose different ways of development.
1. Dog days:
Design of this map allows 3 strategies to play after clearing your own land and taking gold mine:
- you can break to center to get obvious strategic advantage /resources + lev4 dwelling/;
- you can attack one of your neigbour which depending on your opponent /if he attacks same land or another/ goes into 2 different scenarious of game
Hovever this map is fast and poor which makes it very vamps unbalanced map. I'd suggest to change it slightly to get opportunity for other races to develop their heroes so they will not be easy prey for vampires. Even add some script to heaven aid, because right now heaven is hopeless on that map.
2. Death Valley:
It's interesting map in my oppinion, because you have to fight even for starting town and it's not easy fight if you are not lucky with starting heroes /and you are not might or nature/.
But playing for blue side first time I've noticed clear advantage of this side - there are more powerup objects, mage chest and guards of second minor are level weaker which means possible taking it day2.
I don't know if it was made on purpose but it makes map too unbalanced in my oppinion.
I'm not mapmaker myself though I suggest to make newer versions of those good maps with fixes for those balance issues. I can help if somebody interested.
Also it can be interesting to have some kind of poll on TOH site where we can see popularity and rating of maps. I mean not only rating posted by map council but popular vote as well.
So far I think most balanced maps is Unknown lands. Also quite good for random town play are Tempest, Round the world and Heart of Winter (though personally I think last one is kind of boring:-)
Best wishes & gl.
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splexx
Known Hero
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posted October 27, 2002 10:00 PM |
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let the hex memorization begin
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Azif..
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 28, 2002 01:07 AM |
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indeed
loooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllll
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Hidden
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 28, 2002 01:28 AM |
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Hex memorization was not my point :-( Though you should know map to play it versus strong players.
Hovever I'd apreciate more constructive responce. Why can't we make maps more fair and interesting to play?
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 28, 2002 01:50 AM |
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Dont play a map over 5 times and all games will be intersting. Its when you start disecting maps down to hexes that they start to get stale real fast, even for a new game.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 01:56 AM |
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as i read hiddens post it is not about hex memorization...why you guys think that?
he just says what needs balancing, and since he seems to be a good h4 player maybe you should check if hes right.
Hex memorization is the excuse for the bad player, it always was in h3...believe me, most of the vets that like a map never "memorized" every step, i for example just play a map often coz i like its design.
anyways, i dont know much about h4, but hidden could be right with what he says, it sounds logical, we could have used more guys in h3 that talk about maps in that way if i look at crap like desert war btw...lol
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 04:14 AM |
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i must agree with hidden here ... !
1. dog days is far too unbalanced to play against death (and it seems that this particular map helped a particular high-baron, playing it 22 times or smth like that only with necro)
2. death valley - it is unbalanced as hidden says, blue has a tremendous advantage : he sees the lava from his castle, hence red can't do a suprise attack; he also has a library and a veteran guild and red has none !
and all of you who laugh and come up with that memorization crap, remember that ToH is all about honor and balance, and how would u expect to grow as a "community" when u're not giving a **** about new players, who, not knowing the maps, agree to anything, and can be deceived !
i'm not posting this as a complaint, but don't mock a thread from a player, especially from a good and respectable player as hidden, and from the looks of it i would say that he doesn't need to memorize anything !!!
Thank you for your patience ToH members and ADMINISTRATOR !
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate 
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 28, 2002 06:31 AM |
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contact the map council
namely sir_alkis who is really analytical about maps.
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Hidden
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 28, 2002 07:23 AM |
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I'll contact map council for sure.
Reason of creating that thread was to share ideas between players. I think it will be more beneficial for map council to get result of that review, not to negotiate with every player individually.
Thanks
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 28, 2002 09:02 AM |
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I think there wilol be alot more beatiful grat playing maps to come.
I think that most maps from the beggining were made good but also testing out how it will be played in multiplayer.
It can be tough making maps & not really knowing how the outcome can affect the map & can be dificult to keep a balance.
Good to see alot of dif maps & rarely any remakes of some of the old heroes 3 maps even though it can be a totally dif game lol.
Patience is the key we already got heroes 3 to it's full limit & I know that heroes 4 will reach it's peak to, just remember we are just learning everythang & still waiting for patches lol.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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tc_fear
Famous Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 10:20 AM |
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hidden
agree with u 100% and more
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 11:14 AM |
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another philosophical and meaningless post by acu...he really mastered the fine art of tossing every thread until everyone gets bored of it to a high level
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 04:21 PM |
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500BC tosser
Quote:
another philosophical and meaningless post by acu...he really mastered the fine art of tossing every thread until everyone gets bored of it to a high level
C'mon andi philosophy and heroes are one, just like this quote from Confucius:
"When men try to pursue a course which is far from the common indications of consciousness, this course cannot be considered the path"
what he means is follow the road, which is great advice on large random maps
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flipmo
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 28, 2002 04:39 PM |
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Edited By: flipmo on 28 Oct 2002
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First of all good thread hidden. Brb...
/[Offtopic]
Second: Quote:
1. dog days is far too unbalanced to play against death (and it seems that this particular map helped a particular high-baron, playing it 22 times or smth like that only with necro)
Lol, not again pls val If you have a problem tell me when we talk on gsa. Maybe next time when i'll visit the forum i'll see a thread called "Flipmo is a lamer, dont play (w) him, he plays ONLY necro :eek:". No smiles included...
Let me see...yes [DOG DAYS 21 (times)]. What's the problem ? It's my favourite map, already told ya. I guess you'r right, it's a good map for necro. End of discussion. If you wanna play dog day vs necro you have 3 choices:
1. play necro vs necro
2. play whatever you want vs necro
3. dont play this map at all
Your choice. Gl and hf.
[Offtopic]
K, on Death Valley right. But nobody telling 'bout the crimson&clover thingie ? Yeah, i know...same story like dogdays...vampires and so on...but my point is: only 2 players have a MAJOR artefact. The blue and the orange if i remember. The others only minor  Could someone pls edit a lil' this map so no one can have this HUGE advantage (major artef.) ?
PS: And yeah, guess what spot i preffer val :rolleyes:
Hint: it's not the G :rolleyes:
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 06:09 PM |
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I am on your side flipmo :)
hehe, flipmo, as always u feel insulted, and that wasn't my intention (being both romanians makes it a little easier to stick together ), what i meant was that this map was unbalanced death-wise and u just learned to love it, and i can't blame you, so the point is i am not complaining about you, u are not lame (yet ), and nothing bad, i was just making a point for them to balance the map !
P.S. : did u form your clan flipmo ? cause i am looking forward to a fight with you 
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craighack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted October 28, 2002 06:37 PM |
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Quote:
2. Death Valley:
It's interesting map in my oppinion, because you have to fight even for starting town and it's not easy fight if you are not lucky with starting heroes /and you are not might or nature/.
But playing for blue side first time I've noticed clear advantage of this side - there are more powerup objects, mage chest and guards of second minor are level weaker which means possible taking it day2.
I don't know if it was made on purpose but it makes map too unbalanced in my oppinion.
I dont want to get involved in the politics... but I would like to agree with this completely. I like this map a lot and I think it would be played more often with a little tweaking. Not only does Blue have a terrific starting advantage but Red has an inaccessable Oracle and an inaccessable underground treasure chest and Backpack after defeating level 2 guards.
Not a biggie to fix but it would make the map more enjoyable and fair. I have won from both colors but Blue sure has it easier. Where are you JB239?
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
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posted October 28, 2002 07:21 PM |
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my 2 cents...
as always we the map council is expected to fix it... grrr
if you really think it is unbalanced pleaseedit it and send it in for review...
alkis is the one who is the most anal retentive about exacting map specifics, not me...i admit it.
EDIT:: ELETED STUFF
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Hidden
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 28, 2002 08:08 PM |
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Quote:
But nobody telling 'bout the crimson&clover thingie ? Yeah, i know...same story like dogdays...vampires and so on...but my point is: only 2 players have a MAJOR artefact. The blue and the orange if i remember. The others only minor Could someone pls edit a lil' this map so no one can have this HUGE advantage (major artef.) ?
Crimson is not the same story like dogdays :-) It's much worse. In my oppinion to fix crimson you have to redone it completely :-) I understand artifact unbalance is just small compensation for second turn (first turn is really HUGE advantage on crimson), though host is supposed to choose town without major arty.
Quote:
as always we the map council is expected to fix it... grrr if you really think it is unbalanced edit it and send it in for review...
Anyone up for my job please, please ask rob to replace me it would be a burden off of my shoulders
Bob, I'm not expecting you to fix it. I think you are perfectly fit for map council. I admire your work as map tester and toh newbie consulting at GS, and I guess it's just top of the iceberg :-) The whole thing was about bringing attention of players to making better maps to play. I hope JB will have second look at Death Valley. As for Dog Days I don't expect 3DO designers to join our cause, so I'll try to apply my humble skills myself :-)
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted October 28, 2002 08:17 PM |
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Not a biggie to fix but it would make the map more enjoyable and fair. I have won from both colors but Blue sure has it easier. Where are you JB239?
Well, for the most part I am retired from making any more maps. I released the last 2 maps I had made not too long ago, and I do have a criss cross remake for h4 made that isnt released, but prolly needs a lil work. Ive been super busy lately, and it may end up permanent. I used to work a job in the very early morning, and then go to school after, hence my day would be like from 4 am to noon, but now Im working towards a different job, so my day is more like 8 am to 4-5 pm, and along with other stuff, there just no time to do anything. been almost a month since i played H4.
but as for my maps already made..i do come here and read the boards, but miss a lot of stuff, so if there are problems with any of my maps, email me at jb239@hotmail.com and I can take note of the fixes and fix them, since that doesnt take very long.
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I will not lose.
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bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
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posted October 28, 2002 10:02 PM |
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I know hidden, I am just grumpy, tired and my foot hurts really bad today I am sorry to any who think i was being rude
i love what I do, although i did see another map web site today there were 212 maps on it which is more than i have on my computer. I am currently going over these maps and going to send a compiled set to the rest of the map council and ves, however this time i am keeping track of who made them lol.
I hope that we all find a lot of maps that we enjoy! not just one or two that are good.
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