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| Thread: Second expansion? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2002 04:51 AM |
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Second expansion?
It appears 3DO hasn't learnt anything at all from the first expansion. This second one, titled Winds of War, includes 6 new campaigns, 40 new maps (including fan made ones), and 3 new creatures, some adventure objects and a new soundtrack.
Hmmm... does this sound familiar? Even TGS had 4 new creatures. These new adventure objects are probably just one new object in 5 different alignments like in TGS. And if TGS is anything to go by, these 3 new creatures won't be recruitable.
Give us something more original I say. This is exactly that they tried to do the last time. They're just going to continue milking it like their did past HOMMs, without adding anything substantial. How about 1 new unit for each alignment, only recruitable by adventure objects or summoning?
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DarkVenom
Adventuring Hero
Grandmaster Daywalker
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posted December 08, 2002 07:54 AM |
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I hate the idea add-ons only having nothing but additional maps, additional creature type, and new sound track! What about three new alignment in this add-on. It would be much better! Brrr...just my imagination !
ANYWAY, I WILL BUY IT AS SOON AS IT'S OUT!!!
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A dead has no weakness of a living.
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Largo_LeGrande
Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
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posted December 08, 2002 09:37 AM |
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Well, I WON'T!  I'll be completely playing HOMM 3 from now on.
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 -Largo has spoken-
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ancubis
![ancubis]()
Disgraceful
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posted December 08, 2002 12:03 PM |
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If you buy this crap somethings really wrong with you in the first place
I won't even steal or download this crap!
The units are by the way
A CATAPULT!!! Of all the creatures it has to be a CATAPULT!! Are they nuts????
Manticores, Wyverns, Gorgons?? and they give machines for life that look exactly like the ballista????
An undead boar while there isn't even a living one!
and a Green Dragon(Wich is unsure yet du to the vagely screenshots)
LOL NWC GOOD JOB!!
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Odvin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2002 12:07 PM |
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What i'll do with WoW - buy it, extract all the music and then uninstall... 
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ancubis
![ancubis]()
Disgraceful
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posted December 08, 2002 02:51 PM |
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Ow the names
Frienzied scraper, War Machine(Level 4 mechanic life unit), and MEGADRAGON! LOLLLLLLL MEGADRAGON! haha
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 08, 2002 08:05 PM |
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Actually, I don't see that there should be any specific complaints on this expansion.
It contains what you could expect for a heroes expansion. A few new creatures, some new game objects, new maps and campaigns and so on.
Hasn't every expansion so far (except Aramageddon's Blade which contained more) had about the same content?
Look at the Chronicles. They contained only new maps.
If you look at SoD it contained no new creatures.
And Ancubis... You should be shouting out in joy. There are no new humans in the expansion.
And what's that against the new Life mechanical unit? "Catapults" have been around at least since heroes 2.
Anyway, my wish would be that NWC only made one new expansion and if it had about the same content as two expansions.
If they make any other add-ons it should be maps only.
Jenova: The reason they didn't make dwellings for the new creatures in TGS was that only Hexis could make these creatures. Hopefully they will not make the same story-
restriction this time around, which would mean that there will be dwellings.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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ancubis
![ancubis]()
Disgraceful
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posted December 08, 2002 09:28 PM |
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Well there is only 1 think worse then humans and that are machines!!! Machines that look exactly like the ballista...
BTW I'm not happy with the creatures as they are made up by NWC(And they are pretty bad in that stuff)
Especially when there are no Manticores or Wyverns...
I'm sure D&D didn't gave the agreement of using their creatures anymore. because all D&D creatures(Manticores, Gorgons) are gone...I do understand that because homm4 is the worst game ever...
I'm hoping on a HOmm3 like homm5!(Without the made up creatures of homm4, megadragon, evil sorceres and war machines)
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted December 09, 2002 03:23 AM |
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The point is, if this expansion is exactly the same as the first, is there a point in doing 2 of them? It only adds 3 creatures... what if the first expansion added 7 instead?
And I don't think those 4 in TGS were built around a story restriction.. if they wanted you to use them, they could have easily modified the story to allow you to. I doubt they would have said... "hmmm.. the story only allows that evil wizard dood to use them, so we won't make dwellings for them".
If they pull that same thing again, it's not going to do well with people who expect Armageddon's Blade quality. That expansion had more innovations than any HOMM4 expansion.
About what is expected content in an expansion... sorry but that is soooo yesteryear. These days with expansions, I've come to expect more than just 3 few units and some missions. Other expansions have done that. Revamped the game where necessary, altered the game to fix problem areas, and add new content that is just a bit more innovative, and not something that could have just been included in the original. Perhaps some new aspects could be included which might add strategical depth (and don't tell me these 3 new creatures add that much depth to gameplay).
I was hoping for new spells (perhaps even a new alignment and town -- that is not a lot to ask for an expansion, and just because HOMM expansions in the past have not done included them doesn't mean it's ok not to this time or ever), more new creatures (recruitable), more hero classes and skills, alter or add some class bonuses (a HOMM4 purist will say the classes are balanced, but then purist always supports whatever 3DO does) make some balance changes if necessary, and improve the AI. About the new map objects... they promised that in TGS as well, but all it ended up being is just one (or maybe two) objects but made for each alignment. That isn't the same as having 10 unique map objects. I would like them not to do the same as they did last time.
Basically what this expansion adds apart from the 3 creatures, and handful of new objects and artifacts, is nothing really substantial. Nothing that you need to buy an expansion to get. The new maps can be done with the map editor (in fact, the fan made maps WERE). This expansion isn't so bad if it wasn't the second one. When a game has 2 expansions, you would expect the second one to do more than just what the first did, otherwise it would be milking the franchise (like the Sims, except that actually did do more than the usual expansion). Is there a need for 2 of them? For some games like MMORPGs (which require new content to be added frequently), yes.
Speaking of expansion standards... do take a look at what sort of changes MMORPG expansions make to the game. The idea is to improve the game to make it more fun. That would be my idea of an expansion. Adding new maps to play with is not making it more fun, it's simply giving you more to play with. No doubt there will be some new stuff that makes the game more fun, but not enough.
Why am I snowing then? If I don't like it, simply don't buy it right? Actually, I'm not unhappy that I have to buy something I don't like (because I wouldn't), I'm unhappy that they didn't make something I would have bought. Buying a bad product, and not being offered a good product are two separate things to be upset about.
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 09, 2002 05:26 AM |
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I don't plan to buy a copy. I may get one, if the map I submitted is included in the expansion. LOL.
But seriously, I think 3DO has given up on H4 and is working on H5. Looks like they're putting minimal effort into H4 at this stage.
IMHO, they better hurry, or the whole game series is going to die out.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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shaowei
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 09, 2002 10:11 AM |
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Getting money from HOMM4 expansions is necessary to continue working on HOMM5
Compared to the HOMM3 expansions, the HOMM4:WOW is not any worse with new campaigns and even three new creatures. If you liked HOMM4, then the WOW expansion is what you usually get from 3DO. The only reason you would not like to play more campaigns is if you don't like HOMM4 in the first place.
For me, HOMM4 is worse than HOMM3. A lot of people enjoy HOMM4, so it must be personal preference. I hope that given the time and listening to fan input NWC can come up with a good HOMM5 game. That's what I am waiting for, and not some HOMM4 expansions.
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Medusa
Famous Hero
Yeah, right
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posted December 09, 2002 04:15 PM |
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All the thing about the expansions goes like this:
3do:
-I need a new car.
-I need a new house.
-I need a new PC.
-So let's create a heroes expansion with one new 1st level creature!
-OK! Good idea!
People:
-Oh, a new exp.! Let's buy it!
Cash flow during a week: 99999$ (ok, maybe not so much..)
that's what it's all about! If it wasn't about the money, they would put everything in one expansion!
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Guardians Grove forum
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 09, 2002 06:31 PM |
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Ancubis: You need glasses. The new machine looks like a catapult and not like a ballista.
Jenova: Good points. I actually agree with a lot of them. The content of the expansions are too little. Adding together TGS and WoW you get about enough for one expansion, and perhaps a little bit too little.
There are two main reasons why I think they should make one expansion instead of more than one:
- There are just too little news and new features in the expansions today. (New maps is the least important thing and the one thing that they can add in add-ons instead of expansions. A couple of new maps is good enough.)
- I don't like the principle of removing features from the game. I'm pretty sure they won't include the TGS features in the WoW expansion because then who would want to buy the TGS expansion any more? However, removing feaures also taks developement time for the designers and this developement time could have been much better spent on other things. One expansion doesn't give the problems of removing feaure from earlier expansions, and therefore I very much prefer to have only one expansion.
When it comes to the content of an expansion, I agree that except for Armageddon's Blade, the content of all the expansions have been somewhat of a disappointment.
What should be expected is something like:
25-50% of the number of maps in the standard product. (The lower number would be enough if they have map-addon products)
10-20% additional heroes, creatures, spells, and map locations.
2-3 new innovations to game play. (These can also be new features for the map editor.)
10%-20% news for town and hero developement. This would translate to 1 new town with new heroes and alignments, or alternatively it could translate to a lot more builds being available to the existing towns. For heroes it translates to new skills or stats.)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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ancubis
![ancubis]()
Disgraceful
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posted December 09, 2002 06:33 PM |
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Lol
Looks like a Styracosaurus and Tiger mixed togheter......
BTW a machine like Catapult is life alignment????? That THING doesn't look aLIVE.
And yes the dragons is really called MEGADRAGON:
Among the three new Winds of War expansion creatures is the Megadragon, whose origins were described by designer Christian Vanover on the official message board:
"The Megadragon first made its appearance in Might and Magic II (it was lurking in the Quagmire of Doom). It was seen again in Clouds of Xeen, and if I recall correctly, the Might and Magic VII team had a "baby" Megadragon tucked in somewhere..."
That new dragon belongs to the Asylum. The other two creatures are the Stronghold's Frenzied Gnasher and the Haven's Catapult.
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted December 10, 2002 04:35 AM |
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Put the stuff of this expansion together with the stuff frome the first and I might be interested in downloading it. Buying this thing? Give me a break! It costs almost as much as a new game, while providing me with 1000 times less entertainment. How much time does it take to make an expansion like this? I think I could make one in six months (some new campaigns, and 3 new creatures - easy task). They have a team of programmers and designers to do this, and they get the same amount of time, and get paid for it. Can't they do a better job? Until I see at least 10 new creatures my respect for 3DO will not improve.
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted December 10, 2002 05:05 AM |
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Quote:
........if I recall correctly, the Might and Magic VII team had a "baby" Megadragon tucked in somewhere..."
There was a Megadragon in MM7. It was statistically identical to the red dragon in the cave on Emerald Island, lol. What's so 'mega' about that? 
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SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2002 10:22 AM |
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Edited By: Jenova on 10 Dec 2002
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Ahh.. interesting. So the 3 new creatures are recruitable. That's much better news. What would make it even better is to add one for the other towns as well... for 3DO that might be asking too much, but give this task to another developer, and they would go that far.
About that Megadragon being in the asylum... hmmm I dunno. I played Clouds of Xeen, and that dragon whooped @$$. One of the hardest monsters in the game (there was only one of them). It sounds like it's going to be a very powerful unit, (probably the most powerful) and doesn't the Asylum already have the most powerful unit already (the black dragon)?
By the way, an option I would like in the expansion is to lock an advanced class so that it doesn't change when you add other skills. Another branch of skills wouldn't hurt either, or an extra optional secondary skill for each primary (optional means the last one in the branch, the one that isn't required in order to advance the other skills, which means you will have to make a choice between say Resurrection and the new skill, because you can't have both... or just extend the skill slots so you can have 5 skills but that would make advancement take much longer).
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Medusa
Famous Hero
Yeah, right
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posted December 10, 2002 11:22 AM |
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Thanx god!! Recruitable? Cannot be true... That's one good thing, i see in the second exp
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Guardians Grove forum
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted December 10, 2002 01:08 PM |
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I don't understand why people keep on bashing on this expansion so hard. Armageddon's Blade was an exceptionally great expansion. I've never seen anything like that in any other game before. SO many new creatures, a new town, new map structures, random map generator, ... I think we're a bit spoiled by that. Expansions like GS and WoW are actually quite normal. They're even better than average, think about the heroes 3 chronicles, they added nothing but campaigns and perhaps a few maps too. I would like to see the random map creator return too, among other things. But the WoW does not sound like a bad expansion to me. I only hope they get rid of that mega dragon, or at least that name...
[sarcasm mode]
Though then again, this Mega Dragon could be the start of a very innovative wind blowing through the heroes series. I suspect that 3do is preparing for heroes 4's third expansion with this fearsome beast!!! It's a big leap forward, towards the future... At last they will include the long forgotten Forge town with the following fantastical mythical creatures, marvellous!
Level 1:
- BORG Gnolls (can teleport, assimilate not-living creatures)
- Super Goblin Commando's (they have shotguns and kevlar!)
Level 2:
- Steam elementals (they are immune to fire and magic damage based spells, suffer double damage from cold attacks/spells)
- Chainsaw Zombie Dudes (have two chainsaws, so strike twice, can enzombify other zombies which sort of hypnotises them for two turns)
Level 3:
- Turbo Wyrms on Wheels (tunneling gives this creature double speed and movement when underground, can be used as a battering ram to shatter town gate in one hit, eats mushrooms)
- Cool Lich Captains (death cloud attack, call air bombardement=armageddon damage on random spots)
Level 4:
- Hyper Wyverns (poisonous, lays eggs who hatch into Wyvern young after two turns, acid breath attack)
- Funky Groovy Dendroid Kings (casts random beneficial nature spells, binding attack, vines=ranged attack which steals enemy shots)
There, sounds really sweet to me! I hope 3do ever reads this... if they would ever lack inspiration of course, but we know that will never happen, don't we
[/sarcasm mode]
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2002 02:04 PM |
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Edited By: Jenova on 10 Dec 2002
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It's the products that go beyond the standard that is expected which excell. If all you're doing is offering no more than what we're accustomed to receiving, you aren't doing much in the way of innovation are you? Nowadays, people expect quality and they compare them to the standard (AB did set a high standard, and now 3DO's own expansions are being compared to it unfavorably). WoW and TGS is just standard. It is the very minimum you could expect from an expansion pack. Any less, and it wouldn't be a standard expansion pack.
AB was fairly good, why shouldn't they match its quality? They've done so in the past, why go slack now? It's not the best expansion btw, I've seen others that add more (though not from TBS games). I don't like the conflux units actually, it seems sloppily designed. But what it offered was good.. like that hero that could upgrade archers into sharpshooters. That was original. With WoW, I simply haven't yet seen anything that I didn't imagine would be in it. It will get fair review scores like TGS did for revitalizing HOMM4 and bringing more excitement back into the game for people who played it to death. But it won't go the one step forward and make HOMM4 a better game than it was before (it will just give you more HOMM4 to play with, not significantly altering or improving the gameplay experience), or be appealing enough to newcomers that people who never played HOMM4 would buy it. I am willing to bet it won't get a score higher than 8.0 average.
The chronicles series isn't considered expansions. They are stand alone campaigns.
Summary: good titles go BEYOND your expectations and the accepted standard. Average titles follow the formula showing little imagination.
Quote:
Armageddon's Blade was an exceptionally great expansion. I've never seen anything like that in any other game before. SO many new creatures, a new town, new map structures, random map generator, ... I think we're a bit spoiled by that. Expansions like GS and WoW are actually quite normal.
Do you want a normal game, or a great one (like AB by your definition)?
The HOMM community seems divided about HOMM4 as it is. Some like it, some hate it. It would take a VERY good expansion to restore the faith of those who don't like it.
Oh and by the way, some of your suggestions in sarcasm mode are actually not far off from what 3DO originally intended to include as the Forge town for AB. Especially the zombies with chain saws, and the creatures with grenade launchers. Ironic isn't it?
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