|
| Thread: Fortress 6th - 7th day building on impossible XL |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
|
Apophis
Known Hero
Creeping Death
|
posted April 22, 2003 11:18 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
5 heroes means 12500 gold(you'd better note that cause as I see you're not that good at mathematics, probably you're a soccer player )
lol n00bisis
first of all 5 heroes = 10k gold because of starting hero 
(talking about mathematics huh?....)
Ok my mistake, it was very late when I posted and I was kinda sleepy. Anyway no excuse, you're right here. So you're richer with 2500. Guess what? You can buy another hero cause I don't think you'll save those money for the citadel.
Quote:
and some temps are richer than others yes, but if you would been upto date in random debate instead of spending your heroes time playing comp on 80% you would know that there are really easy to see how rich the different templates are now.
And from that you can adjust number of heroes...
We are talking about a general tactic not a particular one. You can play without knowing anything about the map, without knowing what kinda template it is, don't you?
Quote:
And yes you can be really unlucky with starting troops, but many online players knows how to handle them the best and therefor not lose so many. (Ever tried to split lvl 1 units to eat up retaliation? )
No all the neutral creatures have the speed smaller or equal with the speed of your creatures, some of them are shooters, so in one way or another you will lose units, some here some there...After 5-6 fights your army will start to feel the looses and you'll have to reinforce it. With what? Cause you won't have enough money for dwelings. And remember that you'll have many fights cause you'll need lots of resources. With all those money spended on 5 heroes your economy will be hard to re-established. And could you just refer on a general tactic and not going to particular cases anymore?
____________
Ars Moriendi
|
|
Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
|
|
posted April 22, 2003 04:24 PM |
|
|
hmmm i just realised that having this discussion is kinda meaningless.
Partly due to the fact that you have no idea what im talking about (that goes for lord_malekithN00b too )
So instead ima give you some advice:
In myths section of HC you have a thread called "random vampire" or something made by kerberos
There you can find out what templates are all about (all random maps you make are based on a certain template, go into scenario info to find out). What that thread is mainly about though is making templates of your own (ive made one and i am just working on the finishing touches) and how you can set richness in different zones, monster strength..number of towns and so on. Basically you can set most things and still have the map random.
Also you can check these preferences at every existing thread, meaning i could easily say which temps are richer than another and make an assumption on how rich that template is (off course it will always differ some but the idea is the same).
so what im saying is that having 5 heroes on 200% diff and still have a decent build isnt impossible, in fact on some templates it can be done quite easily.
As for the fighting part:
In myths section there are also a tactics thread made by frank, i suggest you read it. In there you will find out many good ways to fight particular things w/o big losses. Xarfax also made a post there on different battle strategies, i suggest you read em through since im sure you will learn some from it.
As for chaining: (the word you never "wanted" to explain to me)
Chaining is when you set up your heroes on the map so that they at end of movement will end up at next hero. And since creatures in this game doesnt have any movementpoints of their own you can transport them and fight with them as much as you want as long as you have heroes to transport them. So while making these chains you will cover up alot of ground really fast and you will explore your area. In heroes3 speed is almost everything (as im sure you will learn if starting to play online) and when you clear your area faster you will also reach the next parts of map faster...and still you will have picked up the resources to keep a good build.
The "big" fights you will leave to your main hero (the hero that has the best prospects of making it best in end fight) so he can gain experience (you will need the gold from chests).
If you wanna learn more on chaining play a game with a veteran online, preferbly ally up with one and im sure you will learn the great heroes3 poetry of chaining 
Follow this post and ill promise you that your heroes3 skills will improve, best of luck to you.
@lord_malekith: didnt your teacher ever tell you to be silent when he/she was teaching?
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted April 22, 2003 11:04 PM |
|
|
hehehe Stiven gets his strategic knowledge from other players since he still hides behind his firewall
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
Apophis
Known Hero
Creeping Death
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 12:42 AM |
|
Edited By: Kuma on 23 Apr 2003
|
Quote:
hmmm i just realised that having this discussion is kinda meaningless.
Yes it is cause you're too stubbom to admit others opinions.
Quote:
So instead ima give you some advice:
In myths section of HC you have a thread called "random vampire" or something made by kerberos
There you can find out what templates are all about (all random maps you make are based on a certain template, go into scenario info to find out). What that thread is mainly about though is making templates of your own (ive made one and i am just working on the finishing touches) and how you can set richness in different zones, monster strength..number of towns and so on. Basically you can set most things and still have the map random.
Also you can check these preferences at every existing thread, meaning i could easily say which temps are richer than another and make an assumption on how rich that template is (off course it will always differ some but the idea is the same).
Let me give you an advice too *** Edit: Altho prolly everyone knows, I deleted this part**** Dude I have just told you, we're talking about a general tactic, without knowing what kinda template it is, without knowing what to expect at. Even if I don't have all those new templates that you're talking about I know the original ones and I can tell when the map is rich or not. I have recently played a map(6LM10 template, one of the most richest template I know) so I went directly for creatures. At the end of week 2 I had all the creature dwelings except for the dragons cliffs with castle too. In week 3 I build the dragons cliffs but then I realised that I had no more resources to fight for so I had to wait for quite a while till my economy was re-established and I had a decent army to take some serious fights. So after I eliberate the road from a horde of thunderbirds I found another rich part of the map. So even if the template is rich you can never know if you'll find enough resources around your castle or what kinda neutral creatures is blocking the way. That's why I think buying too many heroes in the first 2 weeks can be risky.
Quote:
As for chaining: (the word you never "wanted" to explain to me)
Chaining is when you set up your heroes on the map so that they at end of movement will end up at next hero. And since creatures in this game doesnt have any movementpoints of their own you can transport them and fight with them as much as you want as long as you have heroes to transport them. So while making these chains you will cover up alot of ground really fast and you will explore your area. In heroes3 speed is almost everything (as im sure you will learn if starting to play online) and when you clear your area faster you will also reach the next parts of map faster...and still you will have picked up the resources to keep a good build.
I know what chaining means, sorry that I haven't tell you, I hope your fingers didn't get too tired for all the typing.
And the reason I can't play on line is because I have a firewall, as I see that's your problem too. So I quess you won't be able to prove me how good you are with the 5 heroes in week 2 and the chaining tactic.
____________
Ars Moriendi
|
|
Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 01:50 AM |
|
|
me stubborn? yes, usually most times...but particulary in this one since i know im right.
I even tried to help you out improving your gaming skills but you keep fighting for every point i make.
And with all respect, judging from some of your posts of the past you seem like a n00b.
And even "stubborn" me understands that there are better players than myself and if they wanna teach - then i listen.
Because i value learning something new more than keep making accusations til i see a little glimpse of light that that one might just succeed.
and FYI concerning templates, if you had taken the time to read the thread i suggested and do some research there you would have learned by now that you can basically check every zone and what it problably/possibly can consist of.
every border guard there has a value, and with some experience you can make really qualified guesses about how many creatures of which kind that will be in your way. Just as same as you can see what around which gold amount and number of other resources there will be.
oh and btw, i dont believe that you knew what chaining was. Because you so strictly go to each my points in the posts i made except the chaining one. And coming from a player that uses 2 heroes on a map i seriously doubt that you knew what chaining was.
@pecu: sure i get much of my "strategic knowledge" from other players. And to be honest i dont think im the only one... i wanna see a veteran player who honestly can say he/she hasnt learned one thing from another player yet, you show me him pecu...please
|
|
LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 08:22 AM |
|
|
u where teaching? I didnt realize that  
Loool, well when will u move outside to the dangerous open world,and challenge me?
Ever heard of modem?
Stiven? Who's Stiven?....
____________
Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
|
|
krule
Hired Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 09:48 AM |
|
|
To go back to the subject - I think that it all depends on a map. Sure , if you have small teritory and few resources its better to go for the city hall. But in the scenario that youve been talking about obviusly you have plenty of resources to build ( I mean gold and wood ) , so it would be best in that case to go for dwelings ( wyvern, citadel, maybe even gorgons if you lucky). Anyway , youll have good army 2nd week , strong enough to fight crypts and for other resources so that you can compensate smaller income from only town hall.
As for the five heroes debate, I have to say that chances of getting five heroes 1st week on xl impos. are very slim , my friend. They exist, but only in about 10% of all random maps- never mind the templates.
____________
Slušaj mater!
|
|
Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 12:03 PM |
|
|
Better follow the way Krule is going now. Stick to the subject and don't try to start a flamewar in a library; books burn too easy.
As for the discussion: Altho Sir Firewall is 'right' most part of this discussion, it would show some class if he tried to act a bit more like an adult here.
As for any forms of cheating will not be discussed here.
|
|
Apophis
Known Hero
Creeping Death
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 01:34 PM |
|
|
This discussion is going way to far and as I see you're not going to let go your opinion and there's no way I'm going to let o mine. I still don't trust your tactic but I'll check out that thread about templates so you won't say that I'm not willing to learn from somebody else's tacticts.
Quote:
oh and btw, i dont believe that you knew what chaining was. Because you so strictly go to each my points in the posts i made except the chaining one. And coming from a player that uses 2 heroes on a map i seriously doubt that you knew what chaining was.
I didn't answered your question because I considered it a toss, I'm not a noob I know what chaining means. And tell me where did I say that I'm using only 2 heroes on the map?
Kuma it won't be any discussion about cheating here, I just exaggerated a little bit like Stiven does.
____________
Ars Moriendi
|
|
Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 03:10 PM |
|
|
|
I know. I just removed that part from ur post. No problem now.
|
|
Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 08:52 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Untill week 3 you will fight for resources and you won't have enough army to split it so you can search for resources with a hero and to search for the opponent with another hero.
here is where you N00bisis said you use only two heroes.
One hero to search for resources and One hero to search for opponent(dunno whats the use of having a hero searching for opponent is though since road is usually blocked by a stack of units between 2 zones anyway)
Anyway:
Even with your...hmmm...questionable mathematics skills earlier im quite sure that even you knows that 1+1=2?
Although i concider its a good thing that you are to check some threads out. Some of them has really valuable information for people who hasnt played this online yet.
Also library has some great threads but they are usually pushed back in the pages for toss threads like this one 
anyways, good luck playing.
|
|
Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
|
|
posted April 23, 2003 11:41 PM |
|
|
easy:
If u only play with 2 heroes and not enough troups with u will get 500 extra per day and the heroes maybe bring u about 500-1000 bugs.
If u dont built buildings first days u get a working chain that brings u about 3000 to 4000 bugs a day and additional resources.
Fortress is best example: If u save money first days to built a working chain it will enable u to built wyvern with citadell (or even 2nd wall).
So in 2cond week its even worse. The working chain with wyvern on will give u about 4000 to 6000 bugs a day, as u now can enter low level money buildings.
If u go for money buildings ull get (if lucky) 2000 gold a day, but still have no working army, so u dont get money from them (maybe u cant even break through to the next area with resources).
So my advice is to go for creatures buildings on any percentage level, before building money buildings.
Another reason is that u wont have enough army when u face your opponent in endfight if u go for money first.
Well sometimes its better to go for money first week, but this situation is VERY RARE.
If u dont want to get your ass kicked in an online game u better lern how to handle this strat, otherwise stay offline and kill the harmless comp (load autosave if it dont turn out in your way too).
Xarfax1
____________
|
|
Apophis
Known Hero
Creeping Death
|
|
posted April 24, 2003 01:12 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Untill week 3 you will fight for resources and you won't have enough army to split it so you can search for resources with a hero and to search for the opponent with another hero.
here is where you N00bisis said you use only two heroes.
One hero to search for resources and One hero to search for opponent(dunno whats the use of having a hero searching for opponent is though since road is usually blocked by a stack of units between 2 zones anyway)
I was talking about week 1 and 2, the weeks in which you can find and kill your opponent on an XL map, remember?
Quote:
If u dont built buildings first days u get a working chain that brings u about 3000 to 4000 bugs a day and additional resources.
3000-4000 a day, probably at the beggining, but I don't think that would last too long. I donno what kinda ****ing templates you dudes are playing but I don't believe you, at least till I see them.
____________
Ars Moriendi
|
|
Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
|
|
posted April 24, 2003 05:01 AM |
|
|
lol you are fun.
No matter what advice given you always come up with a funny way to dispute it.
But this isnt our thing to prove, this is your thing to look up if you wanna improve as a player.
so now stop the silly tossing, and try and be open minded and learn some things here.
Quote:
If u dont want to get your ass kicked in an online game u better lern how to handle this strat, otherwise stay offline and kill the harmless comp (load autosave if it dont turn out in your way too).
Xarfax1
couldnt agree more.
|
|
zordrac
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 29, 2003 10:14 AM |
|
|
Okay first of all, any "quality" players would be actually sitting there helping people, rather than shouting out "newbie" or the ever popular "n00b" in absence of an actual explanation. If you want someone to get better, then, rather than boasting about how good you are, why not share that knowledge? This is supposed to be here for knowledge sharing. I would suggest to these "experts" who come in here spouting how much better that they are to start sharing some of this expertise in meaningful ways that other players will understand. If you are unwilling to share this knowledge (you may prefer to remain "better") then it is probably better that you do not post responses at all. This is my request to these supposed "experts" who come in here to attack people who are trying to enjoy the game and learn how to play it better. Remember that these tips here might not be perfect, but they will be an improvement on what had been tried beforehand. Also remember that your own tips are less than perfect as well.
First thing is that on Impossible, you have a severe penalty in terms of resource and gold. In multiplayer, this is not the case. The computer's tactics are never going to be as good as a reasonably good player, so that is not relevant. Therefore, someone playing multiplayer (presuming that the same rules apply to online as to hotseat) will not start off with the same disadvantages.
Secondly, most maps are *NOT* resource rich to the extent that is suggested by the "experts" on this post. Most resources are heavily guarded by creatures and settings to add more flavour to the map and to make it more enjoyable to play. A random map will usually have many resources out in the open.
Conclusion = playing random multiplayer maps is a lot easier to build up money than playing specific scenarios on Impossible.
All of that said, I think that it is time to answer the question pertaining to the specific situation, which is a Single Player Scenario on Impossible, on an XL map with Fortress town...
Now, I have tried this several times, and I was able to get a Hydra Pool on day 7 of Week 1. I did this by bypassing most of the earlier troops. It was quite difficult to accomplish, but, since Fortress town is very strong early in the game, I was able to take out some caches and get a gold mine. I did *NOT* buy a town hall on week 1, since my gold mine sufficed. Whilst I was not able to get all of the mines, I was able to get a proportion of them.
You may argue that you need a castle to get 2 Hydras per week, but I was not able to achieve this on Impossible with a single player scenario. It appears to be highly unlikely on most maps. I was, however, able to walk out on day 1 of week 2 with 2 Hydras, Wyverns, Serpent Flies, plus Lizardmen and Gnolls. I quickly upgraded my Serpent Flies to Dragon Flies for the great movement bonus and the ability to dispel.
You may think that not having a castle is costing you creatures, but think that this way you can actually afford all of your troops in your castle. If you buy a castle, then you have wasted your money on it, have twice as many troops, and won't be able to use them all for some time. I try to buy the castle by the end of week 2.
So, going back to your scenario from before, the answer would be Hydra.
Hydras are the easiest level 7 creature to build up to, in terms of days taken to build up to it. Stronghold has the easiest level 7 creature in terms of money. In both castles, on impossible, you should be able to build up to the level 7 creature by the end of week 1.
This may not always be a good tactic for you (depending on how long you expect the game to last, as lower level creatures can be useful too).
____________
|
|
zordrac
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 29, 2003 10:18 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Hello everyone :-)
I'm a newby here and this's my first post.
I'd like to know how you guys would cope with the following setup:
Fortress on impossible XL.
In some way you found a way to build everyday, so you've got Mage Guild 1, Town Hall, Marketplace, Blacksmith & City Hall.
Resources permitting, what're you building on 6th - 7th day?
Citadel - Castle?
Lizard Den - Wyvern Nest?
Serpent Fly Hive - Basilisk Pit?
Serpent Fly Hive - Citadel?
Personally I'd go for the latter (Whenever I tried to get Wyverns straight away I got stuck with wood on 2nd week).
Thank's!
I don't know why you've wasted money on Mage Guild, Town Hall, Marketplace, Blacksmith and City Hall, since none of these building should be bought on week 1 (except where they are needed as prerequisities for creature dwellings, such as with the Castle Castle - Blacksmith needed for Swordsman).
However, if you have all of that, then you should go for the most potent troops. So Lizard Den and Wyvern Nest has to be it. If you build Citadel - Castle then you still have no troops! Lord only knows what you are going to do with yourself going into week 2 with no troops!
If you can "somehow" find a way to build every day, then you should be going for Hydra Pool, imo.
____________
|
|
zordrac
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 29, 2003 10:34 AM |
|
|
In regards to the suggestion of getting a Capitol, I again suggest that the "experts" have not answered this suggestion coherently. They may well be capable of answering it, but are choosing not to share their knowledge. I will therefore give an answer to when to buy a Capitol quickly, and when not to. This may not be the perfect tactical advise, but I hope that I can offer my knowledge and advice for others to share.
When playing on Easy difficulty, you can usually get a Capitol by the end of Week 2. When playing on Easy difficulty, this can be a very good tactic to achieve. The exception of course is when there are several other castles for you to capture as well as your one main one, or if you have several castles of your own at the start of the game. In these cases, you will probably find that 2 City Halls will be just as good as 1 Capitol, and can save buying your Capitol until Week 3.
When playing on Impossible, you may often find in scenarios that each player has only 1 Castle each, and there are no random Castles, or, alternatively, that the computer starts with a large group of troops already in their castle, and it fully built up, meaning that you cannot storm their castle early.
In cases like this, you will need to get as much money as you can.
Therefore, once you have built up all of your creature generators, and your Citadel + Castle, then you should aim to buy the Town Hall, City Hall and Capitol.
Remember that money per day is not as important if you are in there for the "long haul" as having creatures. By the end of the game you will have loads of money, and you never know when you are going to need these creatures. However, if you buy the Capitol before you buy the Creature Generators, then you cannot uncover the mines. You then have lots of money, but no mines and no expansion and, importantly, no creatures! You lose out on every angle.
If, for example, the path to your enemy is blocked by 100 ArchDevils, or 20 ArchAngels, then you will probably be buying a Capitol fairly early on. On Impossible, you may just be able to get the Capitol by the end of Week 3, or the beginning of Week 4. Since you won't be able to beat the 20 ArchAngels with week 3 troops (no matter how good you are), then the investment is worthwhile. You might be able to beat the guardians on week 4, after a few days of the capitol, or, at worst, on week 5. The Capitol has then paid off for you.
Of course, in games where money is no object, for whatever reason, then you may as well have Capitols/City Halls in every castle you own, and have them all built up.
____________
|
|
midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 29, 2003 10:53 AM |
|
|
This is how it works...
by day 6 u will see how rich your terrain is, and what type of blockers u have
1. rich and lots of ranged neutrals
get ya wyvern, and upgrade flies on day 8, then clear area using lizards and wyvern, with dragflies to trap ranged armies
2. poor and lots of ranged neutrals
keep ya gold, upgrade flies day 8, and clear area using lizards, with dragflies to trap ranged armies
3. rich and lots of hand-to-hand neutrals
get ya gorgons, and upgrade flies on day 8 (for hero speed), then clear area using lizards and gorgons
4. poor and lots of hand-to-hand neutral
keep ya gold, upgrade flies on day 8 (for hero speed), then clear area using lizards and gnolls
Was interesting that noone mentioned a gorgon build. by week 4 u want as many gorgs as possible to death stare drags in utopias, and in week 2 and 3 cheaper than wyvern. Only advantage wyvern have, is vs. ranged armies cuz not blocked by terrain and slightly faster.
____________
|
| |
|
|
