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| Thread: Scorched Earth Policy..... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 14, 2003 05:14 AM |
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Scorched Earth Policy.....
The strategy of laying waste to a land to deny an invading army any resources is something that has happened many times in the history of warfare. However, the HOMM series has not been able to simulate this strategy.
In HOMM5 a scorched earth policy could be simulated by enabling the player to downgrade mines back to ore deposits. Currently in HOMM4 the player can upgrade from ore to mine but not the reverse. If the player could do this to any of the mines that they have flagged then the opponent would have to spend a lot of their money to upgrade the deposit.
Another suggestion is that a player can "unflag" any creature dwellings on the adventure map. Unflagging would have the effect that the opponent would have to fight to flag the dwelling instead of just walking up to it and take it without a fight.
Another idea is to be able to erect barriers (maybe piles of wood) to prevent invasion.
What do other people think?
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Frick
Known Hero
and eternal n00b.
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posted May 14, 2003 10:23 AM |
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The flag-thing is a good idea. That will take the computer lot of money, troops and time.
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Hey you, see me, pictures crazy, all the world I've seen before me passing by
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LordTitan
Famous Hero
Hit Dice: 76d12+608 HP
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posted May 14, 2003 01:58 PM |
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It's a good idea, the barrier Idea is realy good. Mabey you could take ore and make a small stone wall, wood for a pasislide wall and wood and ore to make a re-inforced wall or gate?
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Spaek the Titan
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted May 14, 2003 03:01 PM |
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laying waste to a land is just not a honorable thing to do. just like killing the opponent general who is watching the battle from a safe distance is not an honorable thing to do (i have heard that barbarians started it and that forced the role of generals to change). and destroying a town is not an honorable thing to do.
but now that we have the humans fighting against demons.. maybe the humans would consider destroying death or chaos towns an honorable thing..
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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Magus
Hired Hero
Warper of Time-Space
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posted May 15, 2003 12:40 AM |
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Scorched Earth would be a very useful addition. However, what could happen is both sides charging into each others territory with just enough troops to break through mine garrisons, leaving the map barren. There would need to be some restriction
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So was the land riven by Chaos and Destruction, and so it was cleansed from existence. I did this, the Magus of Ly'kail, Magus of the Sylvan Kingdoms.
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Frick
Known Hero
and eternal n00b.
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posted May 15, 2003 08:39 AM |
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Restriction, yes. And I dont like the idea of walls and so on. I don't think walls "fits" in the Heroes universe.
And the honour thing is dumb. "You gotta do what you gotta do." 
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted May 15, 2003 10:20 AM |
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Quote:
And the honour thing is dumb. "You gotta do what you gotta do."
well, some people may think the honor thing is dumb, some (at least one, maybe there are some others?) think the scorched earth policy isn't very smart.
because in computer games you can act irresponsibly, in rl it often creates complications.
well, you could say that before slavery was invented, all the population in a conquered town was executed, and generally the not-so-nice methods were utilized for that purpose. but then there was a period of different etiquette in war. and then there were barbarians who didn't know/care about the etiquette, killed the generals who were looking at the battle from the hill, and did whatever they 'gotta do' and changed the style of war. i don't know who exactly caused the scorched earth policy to become significant and at what period of time, but i don't remember much of it in feudal age, and i don't think such grim behaviour, at least in large scale and without consequenses, would fit very well in the context of the homm game. the spell 'haunt' was ok, even if it was made more useful, but i wouldn't want to go much further.
if i was seriously looking forward to the new homm game and there would be news that there will be scorched earth strategy implemnted, i would loudly demand it to be an option.
oh, i guess both sides would be happy in that case, wouldn't they?
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 16, 2003 01:51 AM |
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I never suggested that there would be a big red button marked "Scorched Earth Policy" and it you pressed it, it would destroy everything that you have flagged.
What I am suggesting is that the player at any time can selectively downgrade mines to deposits and unflag creature dwellings in front of an invading army.
The effect of this is to deny the invaders easy and cheap access to resources in your territory. If the invading army wanted your mines then they would have to pay to upgrade them, and if they want to take the creature dwellings then they would have to fight some of the creatures just as if the dwelling were being flagged for the first time.
I really don't see this as a radical change.
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2003 09:56 PM |
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well i agree with being able to unflag a creature dwelling (for a very different reason.. summoning portals) I think it would destroy the game if you could flag a mine then destroy it, what would stop you from sending a grandmaster stealth hero from flagging all the computers mines (him not being able to see you) then destroying them, how would the computer ever afford to rebuild them? he would no longer be able to get ore, wood, anything, it would take ages to undo the damage done and it would slow a already slow game down
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Lordskeleton
Adventuring Hero
The really REALLY bad guy
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posted May 16, 2003 10:58 PM |
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You could introduce sector control like in AoW. Your castles extend certain influence over the nearest land, where you may upgrade/downgrade stuff til your hearts content. I myself believe you would have to introduce quite a few changes in Heroes to make the SEP a valid strategy. Since the comp is already earning from their own mines, and should you survive the attack, you would have a hell of a time getting those mines online again. In order to deny neccessities (Check the spelling) to an army, you would have to include supply lines and a more direct connection between economy and army like starvation and desertion.
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Vad gagnar det en människa om han vinner hela världen men förlorar sin själ?
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted May 16, 2003 11:37 PM |
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I agree that scorched earth in a large scale could be bad for the game
However,I think they should bring back the haunt spell,maybe on more advanced levels it would allow casting it from a far range to make it more effective
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted May 16, 2003 11:57 PM |
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talking about etiquette of war:it depends from where you look at it,the battle tactics that mongols used(hit and run,cavalry archers) were considered "dishonourable and cowardice" by europeans eventhough it was quite effective.
I don't consider things like hit and run dishounoroble or anything,but scorched earth is something that shouldn't be introduced to homm IMO!
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whinie_the_b...
Adventuring Hero
grrrrr!
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posted May 17, 2003 01:30 AM |
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scorched earth could be fun, with the option to turn it off. maybe even completely destroying mines, dwellings, even castles to create and armagedon type of game. that would make the game finish quickly
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this_other_guy
Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
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posted May 17, 2003 01:34 AM |
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So you raze and lay waste to everything in your path until you reach the enermy's main base of operations....... I like the sound of that 
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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
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Mercy_Severity
Adventuring Hero
answer seeker
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posted May 17, 2003 03:12 AM |
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I think that the bringing back of the haunt spell would be a better alterantive, but if i remember correctly in 3 you could leave guardians. I dont like the scorched earth policy idea at all, it just doesnt fit with heores, and building of things outside ur castle also seems iffy.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted May 17, 2003 12:10 PM |
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In wog I think u could destroy external dwellings
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted June 15, 2003 12:37 PM |
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Scorched Earth policy is used to deny the attacking armies supplies, however, since armies requires zero maintenance in heroes series the strategy of destroying things is not going to be effective.
In most games, if the enemy has you on the run and you have to forfeit mines to them then I'd say you're just prolonging the time it takes for the enemy to defeat you. The current AI barely flags working mines, so I don't see why you would expect the AI to rebuild ruined ones?
So I'm firmly against a Scorched Earth options unless they change the game in other ways. First of all I'd say the game would need to deploy a better alignment/faction system before scorched earth can be considered.
Then every item which can be destroyed are assigned to a faction.
When a player desroys the item, the faction that you destroyed something for becomes sour. (Any troops the player has with that faction will take say a -5 Morale penalty, recovering 1 Morale each day. Creatures with a Morale worse than -5 has a % chance to leave your service/rebel each turn.) Any town where player has troops with that faction (either unrecruited or placed in garrison) have a chance to revolt against the player.)
Certain factions are arch-enemies so when you destroy something from the 'opposing' faction, you will gain a Morale bonus/production for your own troops/towns.
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted June 15, 2003 09:03 PM |
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If someone took destroyed your ore mine in the beginning of the game. How would you "fix" it? You would be in a really bad economic situation.
I don't know it this is a really good idea. It would make the rich richer and the poor even more poor. It would be really frusrating having someone destroy your gold mine when you only have 10 gold.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted June 15, 2003 09:28 PM |
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Well, then you have to defend your Gold Mines, don't you?
One way to give a respite is to say that you can't destroy a Gold Mine the same turn that you flag it, and you have to station troops in the Gold Mine for a full turn before it is destroyed. You can also assign defenders to objects which must be defeated before the object can be destroyed. (But you don't need to defeat them if you only flag the object.)
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 17, 2003 04:55 AM |
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Several posts have talked about "destroying" mines. I do not think that we need to go that far. All that we need to do is have the option of downgrading a mine back to a deposit which means that if a player wants to use the mine then they have to pay a lot of gold to upgrade the deposit to a mine.
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