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| Thread: New resource/building for H5 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 13, 2003 01:02 AM |
bonus applied. |
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Poll Question:
New resource/building for H5
I started a debate in another thread about a new "resource" that I called improperly "food" (after my idea was argued I decided it was not the best term for it).
So, I decided to start a new thread and ask you folks what do you think about it. So here it is.
It seems to me a little strange that you can build in a town a dwelling with hard earned gold & other resources and then you simply buy the creatures like vehicles from a factory. Even vehicles use gas in order to function. I think creatures also need supplies in order to grow in that dwelling (and not to be recruited!).
My idea is that each dwelling will have a maximum number of creatures that can grow each week, but that number will not be reached if other conditions are not fulfilled (supplies, special days or weeks, etc.). I will only refer to supplies this time.
My proposal is to introduce in each town a buiding, upgradeable, which will provide supplies for those creatures. For the Castle, Haven, etc (or whatever names they might have in H5) those would be farms. you would then have to upgrade your farms in order to grow more creatures per week. Otherwise, the dwellings will not work at full capacity. The version of farms for necrotown will be something else (perhaps houses with peasants which vampire could suck from  ).
On the adventure map there could also be found "mines" for such a type of "resource".
So, what do you think?
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 13, 2003 05:07 AM |
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Vlad, your idea sounds reasonable to me. Reading your post reminded me of the situation in SimCity where people will not move into your city if you do not set up the correct conditions for them to live and thrive.
Up to now the Heroes world has ignored the issue of food and maybe it would be good to build it into the game somehow. If we have food then do we also have toilets? If we have toilets do we also have bathing? Should creatures and heroes be born naked and have to buy clothes? Probably not.
Therefore, we have to be careful that the quest for realism and logic do not lead us too far away from imagination and fantasy.
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The Count has spoken
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 14, 2003 12:48 AM |
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Well, now that i think more about it, this idea is actually a replacement for the system of fort-citadel-castle in h3. And it is more logical that a building which provides means of support will increase the number of your troops than the upgrading of your fort, which should be only a meaning of protection, like in H4.
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Xarfax
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 14, 2003 04:18 PM |
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what would even be cooler would be to when u "train creatures" then you would have to wait a certain amount of time before they are ready to be in your army. unlike waiting every week and then just buying them out. hows that?
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted June 14, 2003 09:57 PM |
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Xarfax that sounds alot like Warcraft. The good thing about heroes is that it is very individual.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Saruman
Famous Hero
On academic leave
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posted June 16, 2003 12:20 AM |
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I agree with Dingo, it is a lot like Warcraft.
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Thank god I'm an atheist.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 19, 2003 01:13 AM |
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Quote:
Therefore, we have to be careful that the quest for realism and logic do not lead us too far away from imagination and fantasy.
I perfectly agree that realism must not develop the heroes into something else. What I propose is simply the return to a increase system of building troops like in H3, but not by using the fort-citadel-castle system, which I consider to be improper. I said it before, the castle upgrading should remain only a fortifying system, and the growth of creatures should be modified based on means of production.
There could be two alternatives to this system:
1. The way of H3: the upgrading of the farms would add more troops in each dwelling
2. Lets say you have 6 levels of dwellings. You could build first level without a farm, for levels 2 & 3 you would have to buid farm level 1, for levels 4 & 5 you should build farm level 2, and for level 6 farm level 3.
So, dwell.1 = no farm
dwell. 2,3 = farm lev.1
dwell. 4,5 = farm lev.2
dwell. 6 = farm lev. 3
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 19, 2003 05:30 AM |
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Quote:
I said it before, the castle upgrading should remain only a fortifying system, and the growth of creatures should be modified based on means of production.
I like the idea, it fits nicely into the Heroes series because it is enhancement of the resources system. Also I've always wanted to control the means of production.
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Saruman
Famous Hero
On academic leave
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posted June 27, 2003 08:28 PM |
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Your idea in THIS thread makes a little more sense than in my thread. You weren't going into quite enough detail in my thread.
Yes, I see how this could work. It needs a little fine-tuning though.
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Thank god I'm an atheist.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 28, 2003 01:10 AM |
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Sure it does. Any ideas are welcome. 
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Saruman
Famous Hero
On academic leave
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posted June 29, 2003 08:09 PM |
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Ideas
Okay here are some ideas:
The buildings for towns:
Life: Farm, Food
Order: Altar to the Plane of Positive Energy, Positive Energy
Nature: Tree of Life, Fruit
Might: Trappers' Guild, Food
Death: Altar to the Plane of Negative Energy, Negative Energy
Chaos: Altar of Fire, Fire converted to energy
The buildings would need to be periodically upgraded with each new creature dwelling.
Upgrade modifications:
Life: Farm increases in size
Order: Altar gets bigger, more magic swirly things
Nature: More branches on Tree
Might: Guild is renovated
Death: Altar gets bigger, more magic swirly things
Chaos: Altar gets bigger, more Fires
The Energy Buildings can be built only once in each town, and can be upgraded another 9 times (Upgrades in excess to the # of Creature dwellings increase weekly growth 25%,50%,75%, and 100% (Provided HOMM5 has 6 levels).).
External Energy Buildings can be flagged to increase weekly growth by 10% each, but they have no effect unless they are of the owner's alignment.
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Thank god I'm an atheist.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 29, 2003 11:04 PM |
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The buiding tree that I foresee would be like this (farms seving as an example):
basic level of town development is townhall, with few houses.All inhabitants procure food individually. At this stage there are level 1 dwellings only.
To advance the level to city hall farm level 1 is needed.
The level 1 farm can yield enough food for the inhabitants + dwelling creatures level 2&3. The basic growth rate is 50% of maximum.
The level 2 farm can yield food for cityhall + dwelling creatures levels 4&5.
In order to build capitol you need farm level 3, which also provides food for level 6 creatures.
All those levels of farms are providing only 50% rate of creature growth.
Independently, there can be build a secondary branch of upgrades that will increase the growth of creatures:
first upgrade -> 65% of max.; second upgrade -> 80% of max.; and third upgrade -> 100% of max. rate.
So, the tree looks a lot like the skill tree in h4 and can be sumarized like this:
farm level 0: townhall + 50% of 1'st level creatures
Farm level 1: cityhall + 50% of 1,2,3'rd level creatures
level 1(+ 1 secondary upgrade): cityhall + 65% of 1,2,3 level creatures
level 1(+ 2 secondary upgrade): cityhall + 80% of 1,2,3 level creatures
level 1(+ 3 secondary upgrade): cityhall + 100% of 1,2,3 level creatures)
Farm level 2: cityhall + 50% of 1,2,3,4,5 levels cr.
level 2(+ 1 sec. upgr.): cityhall + 65% of 1,2,3,4,5
............so on..............
Farm level 3: capitol + 50% of 1,2,3,4,5,6 level cr.
............so on..............
The levels and the upgrades are independent, so you can have a farm level 3 without any upgrades, using the town only for income (capitol), or fully developed if you want army production in that town.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted June 29, 2003 11:29 PM |
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Necros could still have normal farms - the more food, the more lowly peasants they could keep, the more corpses to raise!
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 30, 2003 12:03 AM |
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Quote:
Necros could still have normal farms - the more food, the more lowly peasants they could keep, the more corpses to raise!
Well, my system allows for diversity:
my idea of necrotown troops is posted in "Town Proposals" and it looks like this:
1.Skeleton ->Full Skeleton
2.ZOmbie Archer -> Zombie Sniper
3.Mummy ->Royal Mummy
4.Vampire ->Vampire Lord
5.Lich -> Lich Mage
6.Night Rider -> Black Knight (for more details refer to that thread)
So, it can accomodate the special building levels like this:
No special "food" for level 1, skeltons don't need it.
For levels 2,3, butchery, since zombies & mummies need human flesh...
For levels 4,5, a "blood bank" on the second floor (reanimation... ) for vamps and liches
For level 6, I don't know, a tavern seving dark meat and dark wine for the Black Knight? ( LOL)
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 10, 2003 09:55 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 10 Jul 2003
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Hmmm... Looks like a good idea.
The simplest way of achieving this would probably be to tie it directly to the Level of the Hall (without adding the new structure).
This because the Hall Level is supposed to reflect the population in the city.
Another way of doing it is to allow building of places that will increase the Population in towns faster, and remove the Hall upgrades. The Hall upgrades automatically when the town reaches certain population. (Age of Wonders 2 cities are population based.), and the number of creatures generated also depend on population.
The bonus is the Poster of the Month Award for June 2003.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted July 11, 2003 09:10 PM |
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First of all, thank you for your appreciation.
With the increase in costs following the upgrades and levels of the farms, the upgrading system of halls should of course be cheaper, and I would keep a modic fee for the increase in level, 1-2000 gold.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted July 18, 2003 05:30 AM |
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Personally I do not like the idea of supplies as it would only add more micromanagement to the game instead of adding more strategy. Micromanagement should be involved, but fairly limited. As for me I have found the building in HOMM to become routine and almost micromanagement. I would like to see some more strategy in HOMM in building and recruiting creatures instead of just "build this" and "here are your creatures."
However, I do like the idea of training units. I would like to expand on this.
Well my thought is to use your idea of "supplies" and the idea of "training units" to make my own idea.
First I will start by saying that creatures can still be recruited every week as always. But this will be cut in half or cut even more than that. Example: 10 centaurs would be the max recruiting every week.
But... you can "train" an infinate amount of creatures. However only a certain amount of training can take place at one time. For example you could train let's say 5 Titans at once or you could train like 50 elves at once.
Training will take place from one building, the barracks or whatever you want to call it for each town. You must research how to train certain units at the barracks instead of building creature structures. It is basically the same, but will fit better this way in the senario of training troops instead of recruiting.
Bare with me for a sec, but Do you know how the spell points are used universally instead of having points for each spell as they were in HOMM1?
Here's my idea. The barracks is able to train only a certain amount of troops at one time. This will be universal for all troops just like spell points are universal for all spells. This is realistic in that a barracks can only do so much at one time, and could concentrate on training one desired troop instead of seven different troops all at once.
To add another piece to this thought, let's say a barracks has training points. Certain towns would generate different amounts training points than other towns. This would make every town unique.
Creatures take up training points while being trained. Once they are trained the training points are available in the barracks again. Creatures also take different amounts of time to be trained. A titan would take up maybe 100 training points and it would take 10 days to train it. However a magi would take up 15 training points and would only take 5 days to train. Maybe some units would take a really long time to train, but require a very small amount of training points. Let's say that Archangels would require only 50 training points, but take 2 weeks to train they also only cost like 2000 gold and 1 gem. Allowing them too take a really long time to get them, but still allow other creatures to be trained in the mean time making that town that has Archangels unique in that respect.
The player is now thinking. Do I want to stay back and wait for those Titans or rush them in a couple days with Magi and Gremlins. I think this would make HOMM add a new aspect of strategy on choosing creatures and would allow towns to be even more unique instead of methodically going along.
BUILD LEVEL3,
BUILD LEVEL4,
BUILD LEVEL5,
BUILD LEVEL6,
Oh! It's a new week! Now I get to recruit my creatures. OH yeah! Now I get to wait another week.
BUILD LEVEL7,
BUILD CASTLE.
To keep the upgrading creatures aspect, you could research in the Barracks ways to improve your creatures after they are able to be trained. You could improve armor, speed, etc. You could also research how to recruit certain units faster or allow your barracks to train more creatures at once. So I guess I do like your idea, lol. I just I think wanted some more strategy in building towns without the hassle of one building a turn.
I just realized this!
How to tell the difference between micromanagement and strategy in new ideas:
Does the player have a choice in what is happening or is it simply a requirement before the desired result happens?
Please take this as constructive criticism. I find that requiring supplies for creatures is only micromanagement, however I think your idea can be built upon by adding some choices to the player on how to use your "supplies" or separate cost for getting troops. The more choices the more that micromanagement becomes strategy.
That is why chess is pure strategy. Everything is a choice.
btw, I've always hated towns like rampart, tower, etc. because it basically forces the order of building on you with its massive prerequisites. Where is the strategy in that? You can't really choose what to build first.
EDIT: By recommendation from DoddtheSlayer:
I have not yet decided about this but he was asking about rush training. I've decided to make a new thread on this and ask for ideas.
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Go Red Sox!
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 18, 2003 06:42 AM |
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Great idea Sox. I was wandering if the would also be an option in this idea whereby a player could rush this upgrading process for a high price?
Edited at Redsox request
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted July 19, 2003 05:57 AM |
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I never asked you to change your post. At least I don't remember.
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Go Red Sox!
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted July 20, 2003 10:39 PM |
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I don't see how the supplies add more micromanagement, first of all. They are only a replacement for the previous system of construction that involved the fort-citadel-castle development. It is indeed a little more complicated. But does that mean that you get from mangement to micromanagement? i don't think so.
On the other hand, I don't see why micromanagement is so bad. You complained that the development of the town is linear and boring. here's the chance to improve it a little. So what's wrong with that? because I'm sure that this micromanagement won't prevent you from seeing the big picture, and the afferent strategy.
the training idea is not really bad, it might actually work, but I don't agree for paying more maoney for these services, after you bought the creatures from expensive dwellings. I agree however with your idea of "training points". More for higher levels, but your discrimination in the example titans-angels is too great. the similar levels should be trained in similar conditions, and only the barbarians can be the exception in that.
but the Baracks after the training begins to sound too similar to AOE or Warcraft, and personally I don't find it desirable.
As a conclusion, the training is a good feature, with the conditions of beeing free of charge and undiscriminated, just as prices for the creatures are.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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