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| Thread: A new revolutianry alignment of towns....!!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 19, 2004 03:58 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 23 Jan 2004
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The Morale system (and more)
Thanx for the QP, Hydra. I’m gonna have to work more on the yellow stars, and if you keep working on the red stars, It’d be great.  But I’m not really sure what you mean by “that’s the first one you have given”.
Ok, now. Back to work. Having already explained the town and magic system, it’s the morale system’s turn now and we are almost close to completing the game a year before Ubisoft. 
Why I think an individual creature morale should replace the army morale?
I kinda explained myself on this one, but not quite. Don’t you think that neutral creature (let’s say – hydra) in an army shouldn’t be depressed if his comrades (monk and zombie) hate each other? Forgive me for saying, but hydras aren’t really known for their compassionate nature. And that’s what army morale does. Imposes morale on “poor” neutral creats. As far as the hero morale is concerned, it can just be added to each individual creature. Same goes for morale gained from map locations. But I really like the idea for even additional negative moral to apply to creats who really hate each other’s guts (the “hating” thing in homm3)
How should it be defined?
I already explained this so I’ll just copy/paste.
1# good vs. good, but not from the same town +0 morale
2# evil vs. evil, but not from the same town +0 morale
2# good vs. evil alignment -2 morale
3# chaos vs. order -1 morale
4# extreme opposites (inferno and Castle; Conflux and Stronghold) -1 morale
special: all creatures are from the same town +1 morale
So for example, if a rampart creature is in the same army with a necro and a castle crit then its morale is the sum of all the “morales” that creature has. In this case it’s 1# (relation with the castle creature); and 2# and 3# (relation with the necro creature) so the sum is: 0-2-1=-3 morale.
At the same time the castle crit has 1# (with the rampart crit) and 2# (for the necro crit), so it has a morale of 0-2= -2 morale.
“One element that does cross my mind when looking at this response, though; is the number of spells each magic school would actually provide. In Heroes IV, it went by level. Level 1 & 2 = 3, 3 & 4 = 2, 5 = 1. Exactly how many would you envisage? Also, is there one primary magic alignment for every castle?”
Yes, I forgot to mention the number of spells. According to my calculations there would be overall about 90 spells and each school would have 24. (How did I get to this? Don’t ask! Algebra, calculus…) The homm4 way of dealing with the number of spells in the mage guild looks fine to me, with the difference that all magic alignments in a town would give the same number of spells. There is a condition however: Shared spells cannot show up twice in the same castle. So in the end, a town would offer 3x11=33 spells out of the total of 90 spells. This is not bad at all, compared to the homm4 ratio, which was 27 out of 70.
“These subdivisions within spell schools make it quite complicating and perplexing. But I do feel it could work, but it would take getting used to.”
I’m afraid it sounds more complicated, than it truly is, but the whole point is the game to gain on playability. Plus I don’t think an average player will get so much into analysis of the system. Just a right-click will do for him.
“What about 13 or 14 towns? Would it still operate in the same manner? (It would be interesting to see, because that could be on Ubisoft’s mind if they chose that system or similar)”
I doubt it. This is designed for a precise number of towns (8, 10 or 12).
““Seeing as it isn’t one town owning a spell school, there would be 8 different spell schools for 8 different towns. But if you add 4 more towns, there are still 8 spell schools.”
So what?”
So what? The factor here is that you are still sharing the same amount of spells and schools among a smaller amount of towns.”
I can see your point here and I feel you might be right, but I can’t see a clear logical connection between them, given the fact that no town has a primary magic school.
“What about in the Life School subdivisions that belong to other alignments, but are still in the Life school? I am leaning toward answering yes. (About if you can learn them if you are Life)”
You are leaning correctly.
“Look at my New Creatures thread, for example. It has literally hundreds of creatures suggested (maybe thousands) and a substantial amount of town lineups, too. These are not based on geographical areas. They too are based on mythology.”
Sorry. Don’t have much time to go through 16 pages of text. (but I managed to read some of it) Do you know what I spent most of the time when constructing this proposal? Research on creatures and mythology overall. Even before I knew about Heroes, I was a mythology freak, and I intend that to be my future job, or at least a hobby. So, I’d be thrilled to discover a new creature which I’ve never met before and is not similar to the ones I had put in the list.
To Blue_Camel
I also agree about the pirates. The reason I put them there was because I didn’t include any neutral creatures. But you can easily make a neutral gang by picking one creature (the least fitting) from each town.
“But I think it would be nice if there would be at least 1 creature per alignment that has a "scouting" ability.. meaning they CAN move on their own.”
Yes, that’s an interesting idea! But I agree with Hydra about the choice the players would usually make. That’s why I think it’s best if we let the highest level creats to have that ability. This way we can avoid collecting all the resources on the map early in the game with only 1 creature. Also, I think this ability is of most importance if there is a “fog of war”, which I’m not very keen on. If there is such thing (which is not very heroes-like), cheap creatures are needed to stand guard on the keypoints. But the highest level creatures are not cheap and the player will have to make a choice whether to place them on guard or incorporate them in his army.
To dushan
“BTW, Griffins and gargoyles are not "good" creatures.”
Griffins were used as statues in medieval castles to guard the entrances. They were symbols of strength, loyalty and vigilance. And gargoyles are animated statues and serve whoever animates them and yup…, even wizards.
To ScipioMagnus
“Well, Svarog, you play Age of Mythology or I'm a lich.
Leviathan, Kraken and Scylla are really too nearby of AOM.”
Well, honestly you seem more like a lizardman. I’ve played that game, but I don’t play it. And those three are VERY famous monsters. No need for a game to popularize them.
To BoogieMan
My Oceanid is not really an Oceanid, but something like a homm3’s water elemental with legs. Triton=Merman.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted January 19, 2004 12:38 PM |
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Nice, very nice. A preety solid ideea, very original and very good. My congrats to it's maker.
I have hust this to say: If Ubisoft would follow your ideeas and try to make so many cities and so many units, with all the statistics, ballance them, designing them (graphically), it will probably take a couple of years for the game to reach maturity. Are willing to wait that long?
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ScipioMagnus
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 19, 2004 10:17 PM |
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Third ability
After reading all your post, I really find you're a smart man, with a great culture.
Ok, I'm not really in the subject.
Some creatures should have a new special abilities : bloody.
Every bloody creature would be able to gain morale by killing many other creatures.
Also, some heroes should have the special abilities to increase the bloody effects (as Crag Hack, hehe)
New primary skill should also be added.
Now, a hero scouting ability could upgrade if he travels very far (and a new special location could be added : ancient ruins-----> Every heroe entering the ruins gain scouting bonus) and discover many thing (maybe the creatures scouting (if they can scout in HOMM5) would also be able to gain scouting).
Now, the scouting ability would also serves to make your heroe discover hidden item/artifact/ressources/road.
New dimension should be added too, like the heaven, or maybe a new planet, a big world under the water (like this, the water town could be easier to insert to the game), little world into the volcanoes and surely more...
Rampart special abilities : Scouting and mobility
Castle : If someone has an idea...
Tower : Diplomacy or maybe clairvoyance, I'm not sure yet which one is the best.
Inferno : An idea???
Dungeon : Curse (Cause of the black spells they use, the contact of an Overlord-Warlock can curse you (lowing the skill and the luck of one creature stack).
Necropolis : Fear (Lowing the morale this time, and maybe more, like lowing speed)
Stronghold : Bloodness (as mentionned before)
Fortress : Hunter Ability, or Ambush Abilty, same thing at all (a creature can be hidden at the start of the combat, and can move without being seen, and can attack with a bonus. After this hit, they are no more hidden)
Conflux : Elementalism. Wonder what this can do without being overpowered.
Shadow : Damned, maybe the ambush is more appropriate for them?
Water : Flooding. The battle map become cover with a little bit of water (depending on the force on this skill), like this, the water units go faster and earth units slower (flying units being immune).
Continue your good job Svarog!!
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All what is good for dog is good for me
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Styq
Known Hero
Grandmaster Leadership
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posted January 20, 2004 08:24 AM |
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Quote:
Castle : If someone has an idea...
Inferno : An idea???
Conflux : Elementalism. Wonder what this can do without being overpowered.
Shadow : Damned, maybe the ambush is more appropriate for them?
Castle: Glory (like Bloodyness) or Worship (like blodyness with luck)
Inferno: Hellfire (increase's the combat dmg of all inferno units)
Conflux: Give em Home Grounds (Water elem. do extra dmg on water, fire elem. do extra dmg on volcanic grounds, ice elem. do extra dmg on snow, etc.)
Shadow: Recruitment of the Damned (enables your hero to recruit more of any friendly Shadow Town unit on the battlefield during battle at extra cost)
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Leadership is nothing but being a good actor,
just like bravery is nothing but being a fool
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted January 22, 2004 12:10 PM |
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Morale and Spell Systems
“Thanx for the QP, Hydra. I’m gonna have to work more on the yellow stars, and if you keep working on the red stars, It’d be great. But I’m not really sure what you mean by “that’s the first one you have given”.”
If you keep posting quality threads such as these, I find no reason to cease handing out Quality Points to people like you, and others. What I mean by ‘it is the first one I’ve given’ is that I recently got admitted to the Mod Squad Head Quarters, and it is the first quality point I have applied, after getting 30 myself, I wanted to see how it was like to give them out.
“Having already explained the town and magic system, it’s the morale system’s turn now and we are almost close to completing the game a year before Ubisoft. ”
LOL. Completing the game? Completing the elements of the town-related yes, but the whole game? I think there is much to go, but that doesn’t matter, seeing as this is a thread concentrated on the town only. 
“Don’t you think that neutral creature (let’s say – hydra) in an army shouldn’t be depressed if his comrades (monk and zombie) hate each other?”
Depressed wouldn’t be the word I’d use. More like affected. The Hydra would be affected by the altercations between these two creatures, and would also feel slightly less positive because of it. The event would cause the Hydra to get distracted and also angry that the two cannot co-exist. I think it is in the realms of logic.
“Forgive me for saying, but hydras aren’t really known for their compassionate nature.”
I agree. You’re forgiven. It is clear that our views on this differ slightly but I believe they can be put together without losing much.
“But I really like the idea for even additional negative moral to apply to creats who really hate each other’s guts (the “hating” thing in homm3)”
I am with you on this one, Svarog. It added an extra element to the hatred and the more realistic conditions these creatures could find themselves in. I do hope for this to be kept in Heroes V.
“1# towns from the same good/evil/neutral alignment +1 morale”
Do you mean if all the creatures in the army are from the same town, there is +1 morale? Or something else.
I believe you have missed one. Creatures from neighbouring alignments in the same army. What of this?
Also, I think that the morale penalties should decrease for the amount of opposite alignment creatures there are in one army. For example, there is chaos, order, and life. Maybe the morale should go down another 1.
“According to my calculations there would be overall about 90 spells and each school would have 24.”
I see. A fair number, this means that a lot of the spells would be shared between schools, because 24 divides into 90 only 3.75 times, not equivalent to the number of spell schools (8). I’m not sure if sharing spells between schools is a good idea, because the point of having schools is so that all the spells within are worth grouping. Though 24 is an average number for spells in a school, how many would actually be unique?
“The homm4 way of dealing with the number of spells in the mage guild looks fine to me, with the difference that all magic alignments in a town would give the same number of spells.”
I don’t like that last sentence, but everything else seems fine. Neighbouring alignments should get less spells than the primary magic school. I think Heroes IV did it better here, and I think it is logical. Having the same amount of spells ruins the choice for which town to be. For some differentiation, I think it would be better to reduce the number of spells you receive through annexes to lessen.
“There is a condition however: Shared spells cannot show up twice in the same castle.”
I praise you for that decision. Though I’m still not convinced that I like the spell-sharing notion.
“So in the end, a town would offer 3x11=33 spells out of the total of 90 spells. This is not bad at all, compared to the homm4 ratio, which was 27 out of 70.”
Actually, in Heroes IV, there were a total of around 149 spells. So it would make your figures more impressive. However, I believe we can solve the sharing of spells (even though I am inclined to believe you like it) and the lack of spells in your system. Merely increase the number of spells to 192, so that each system has its own, exclusive spells and there would be such a great diversity of them.
“I doubt it. This is designed for a precise number of towns (8, 10 or 12).”
This is exactly my point. If Ubisoft were to add another town they wouldn’t be able to do it without disrupting the perfect system you have made for these numbers of towns. So if there was an expansion for the game, there would be no new town content. This is also why there weren’t any new towns for Heroes IV in the expansions.
“I can see your point here and I feel you might be right, but I can’t see a clear logical connection between them”
OK, allow me to elucidate. The connection here is that the amount of spells will have to be changed, so to will the availability of them. This is because it would be imbalanced, and the spell ratio would be significantly lowered, because more spells need to be shared. For example, there are 8 towns, 8 spells schools, with 20 spells each. These 8 towns would have 20 spells each. But when 4 more are added, these same spells must be divided among 12 instead of 8, decreasing the availability.
“Do you know what I spent most of the time when constructing this proposal? Research on creatures and mythology overall.”
That is a laudable way to spend your time. It makes your proposal more authentic, which it certainly was.
“This way we can avoid collecting all the resources on the map early in the game with only 1 creature.”
Not all the resources, but I see your point. It was slightly easy just collecting all the loose resources and exploring the map with just 1 creature. This is why I want to disable the creatures from walking around without a hero. I think this was one of the worse changes for Heroes IV.
“Griffins were used as statues in medieval castles to guard the entrances. They were symbols of strength, loyalty and vigilance. And gargoyles are animated statues and serve whoever animates them and yup…, even wizards.”
Again, it is all about perception. Even NWC changed its perception when it came to these creatures:
Griffin: Gargoyle:
H1: Warlock H1: Warlock
H2: Warlock H2: Warlock
H3: Castle H3: Tower
H4: Preserve H4: Necropolis
Another example:
Centaur:
H1: Warlock
H2: Warlock
H3: Rampart
H4: Stronghold
This discussion has been one of the best in the Altar in recent times, so keep it up!
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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Styq
Known Hero
Grandmaster Leadership
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posted January 22, 2004 01:05 PM |
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Adding to The HyDrA's last few sentances:
The Minotaur
This creature is not at all found as "evil" in the Greek mythology. This creature was created and ruled by Posidon, and like all Greek Gods, Posidon was neutral. The Minotaur is a savage, barbarian beast. Not "evil" but "savage" therfor I believe in HOMM5 it should go to the Stronghold.
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Leadership is nothing but being a good actor,
just like bravery is nothing but being a fool
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted January 22, 2004 01:16 PM |
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Talking about the minotaur
The better way to put it is that the Minotaur is more like Chaotic Neutral. It should be a nice addition to heroes 5 to classify the allignament just like in the RPG's.
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Styq
Known Hero
Grandmaster Leadership
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posted January 22, 2004 03:57 PM |
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Minotaur
So does it go in the Rampart, Dungeon, or Stronghold?
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Leadership is nothing but being a good actor,
just like bravery is nothing but being a fool
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted January 22, 2004 04:05 PM |
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Well, if i stick to my opinion, it looks like this:
Rampart=good
Dungeon=evil
Stronghold=neutral
Minotaur=neutral
So I guess he goes in Stronghold. Hurray for them!
PS: I would not see fit for a minotaur to enter ranpart. these two just don't match
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Styq
Known Hero
Grandmaster Leadership
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posted January 22, 2004 06:56 PM |
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You know what else bugs me? It's a popular opinion that Werwolves should go in Rampart since they are "Natural" and "do what they must to survive in nature".
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
Werwolves are SOHOHOOOOOOOOOOOO Undead
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Leadership is nothing but being a good actor,
just like bravery is nothing but being a fool
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 23, 2004 08:15 PM |
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To HyDrA
The Morale
“Do you mean if all the creatures in the army are from the same town, there is +1 morale? Or something else.”
Yes. Although initially it was supposed to be for creatures that are both good (or evil) [because it was supposed to prevent rampart and tower creatures in the same army to have -1 morale because of the chaos/order opposition between them. And the +1 morale could have balanced it to 0. But the following problem showed up], but then I noticed that u get +1 morale for two good crits, and 0 morale for two crits from the same town. So, it would better be +1 morale if all the crits are from the same town. And 0 morale for crits that are both good/evil/neutral. Am I clear enough?
“I believe you have missed one. Creatures from neighbouring alignments in the same army. What of this?”
If “neighboring alignments” means all good/evil/neutral towns, then morale=0. Note that I’m talking about two creatures, not an entire army.
I’ll edit the conditions and example in my previous reply to fit the new rules. Thanks for making me realize my mistake.
“Also, I think that the morale penalties should decrease for the amount of opposite alignment creatures there are in one army. For example, there is chaos, order, and life. Maybe the morale should go down another 1.”
This would be logical for a morale system based on the army, but not for a system based on the individual creature.
“Actually, in Heroes IV, there were a total of around 149 spells.”
Oh, my! You are right! I miscounted them! That brought that high percent of spells which should be shared. Big mistake!
Thank you again for your correction. But, with all due respect, I think you should now see yours.
“The connection here is that the amount of spells will have to be changed, so to will the availability of them. This is because it would be imbalanced, and the spell ratio would be significantly lowered, because more spells need to be shared. For example, there are 8 towns, 8 spells schools, with 20 spells each. These 8 towns would have 20 spells each. But when 4 more are added, these same spells must be divided among 12 instead of 8, decreasing the availability.”
The availability of spells isn’t connected with the number of towns. I can prove this. For example, when you play a single map scenario, there are e.g. 4 types of towns on the map. Let’s imagine that this is the total number of towns in the game. There isn’t a problem with the availability now, is there?
The availability of spells is connected with two ratios:
1. total number of spells:max. number of spells a town offers
2. total number of spells:max. number of spells the hero can learn
The first ratio was 80:15=5.3 in homm3 and 142:27=5.3 in hoomm4. Because the number of spells a town offers is 3*11=33 (there is NO primary school. You can’t have that because the schools are not closely related with the towns like in homm4), the total number of spells should be 33*5.3=175.
“Merely increase the number of spells to 192, so that each system has its own, exclusive spells and there would be such a great diversity of them. ”
Although difference between 175 and 192 is not that high, if spells are shared, then the total number of spells is closer to 175.
If ¼ of life/death/order/life schools is shared with the elemental schools, and the rest (3/4) of all the schools are exclusive spells, then the total number of spells is 168 (much better).
The second ratio was 80:80 in homm3 (under the condition you have Expert Wisdom), and 142:84=1.7 in homm4 (if you have Grandmaster skill for 3 magic schools). But in homm4 theoretically you can also learn all the spells so the availability increases further. In my proposal the hero can learn only from the three magic schools that are connected with his town. If we take the ratio for homm4 1.7 (the system is similar to my proposal) then the total number of spells is 1.7*(24 spells*3 schools)=122, which is yet another reason why the total number of spells should be lower than 192. And another argument for sharing spells is the option that the hero will be able to learn spells even from the towns which don’t have the same schools from his native town, but still do share with them some of the spells.
“If Ubisoft were to add another town they wouldn’t be able to do it without disrupting the perfect system you have made for these numbers of towns. So if there was an expansion for the game, there would be no new town content. This is also why there weren’t any new towns for Heroes IV in the expansions.”
But in homm4 the magic schools were directly connected with the towns. It’s not the case here. As I said, they can have 8 or 10 towns in the first edition and add the other 2 or 4 (but they have to be the towns from the middle: Desert, Fortress, Shadow, Aquatic) in the expansion. No disturbance whatsoever.
I don’t know if I made myself clear enough with all this maths and logics, Hydra. You tell me. I can see few other want to get into deep analysis of my system and I thank you for your time and effort.
Also, I read somewhere that you had sent some of the proposals to the Ubisoft team. Is there any chance that you have sent something from this thread also?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 23, 2004 08:23 PM |
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“This creature [Minotaur] is not at all found as "evil" in the Greek mythology. This creature was created and ruled by Posidon, and like all Greek Gods, Posidon was neutral.”
Actually, (almost) all the monsters in Greek mythology were considered personifications of evil and horror. 14 youths and maidens were brought to the Minotaur each year for food. What a pleasant monster he is. And if Poseidon was neutral, that means he was at times good and at times bad, not always neutral.
“Werwolves are SOHOHOOOOOOOOOOOO Undead”
No way. Undead is an animated dead corpse. Werewolves are neither dead nor animated. They are humans who turn into wolves on full moon. I think they belong to Shadow the most.
To all who read: Come on, say something about my proposal. You don’t have to be Hydra to discuss about it. Just read the first post and it should give you a basic idea of what it is.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
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posted January 23, 2004 08:44 PM |
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There are many more creatures, that were more or less considered to be in "good" or "evil" greek forces.
Hierophant was often connected with good.
Minotaur - evil.
But even the evil ones came to good forces. For ex.: erinyes. They were demons. Still, they weren't on the side of thieves. They revenged to all the things that were evil and did bad things.
So I think, that we can make minotaur good, or at least, neutral. That's my short opinion.
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Styq
Known Hero
Grandmaster Leadership
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posted January 24, 2004 06:14 AM |
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The Minotaur eats the youths caus he's gotta eat something. What do u think? the Behemoth is vegeterian?!
About the Werwolves; maybe the concept "undead" was not the right classification, but Werwolves belong in the Necropolis. In all Werwolf movies and myths, there was a constant mingling with the dead and dead stuff.
By the way: I thought it through and I decided I don't really like your shadow town. It's too much Necro-Dungeon. It's not unique enough. This is YOUR system and YOU decide what to do with it, but I for once would like you to erase the Shadow town and bring back the old Alchemist town instead.
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Oh ya, and I thought of some cool (personal) allignments for the towns:
Castle: Light
Inferno: Darkness
Aquatic: Life
Necro: Death
Conflux: Magic
Stronghold: Might
Tower: Order
Dungeon: Chaos
Desert: Liberty
Shadow: Empire
Rampart: Nature
Fortress: ???
____________
Leadership is nothing but being a good actor,
just like bravery is nothing but being a fool
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regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
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posted January 24, 2004 07:23 AM |
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Quote:
Oh ya, and I thought of some cool (personal) allignments for the towns:
Castle: Light
Inferno: Darkness
Aquatic: Life
Necro: Death
Conflux: Magic
Stronghold: Might
Tower: Order
Dungeon: Chaos
Desert: Liberty
Shadow: Empire
Rampart: Nature
Fortress: ???
Some of your alignments don't identify the town. Here are mines:
Castle: Life
Inferno: Infernal
Aquatic: Ocean
Necro: Death
Conflux: Elemental
Stronghold: Might
Tower: Order
Dungeon: Chaos
Desert: Wastelands
Shadow: Darkness
Rampart: Nature
Fortress: Swamp
I think some of mine ones don't indentify too. Still, I think they're more capable to align the towns.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 25, 2004 01:21 AM |
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“The Minotaur eats the youths caus he's gotta eat something. What do u think? the Behemoth is vegeterian?!”
Lol. Of course not. But then how would you define evil? And as far as the Dungeon town is concerned (in homm3) there were more neutral creatures than in the Stronghold. Troglodytes are just a cave tribe. Harpies were sort of bandits. Never heard of Beholders being particularly evil. And Medusa was a beautiful woman before she was turned into what she is. So I think the main trait of Dungeon is their connection with the Underground, and not evil itself, like Inferno for that matter.
“In all Werwolf movies and myths, there was a constant mingling with the dead and dead stuff.”
Not, myths. Just movies. Although I believe they are always connected with night, not the dead. The impression you have is because many people also connect the dead with night and darkness, which of course is also true.
“I thought it through and I decided I don't really like your shadow town. It's too much Necro-Dungeon. It's not unique enough.”
It’s your opinion, pal. I respect it. I’ll just try to explain what Shadow means for me, if you still don’t like it, it’s ok. Shadow is a town of Night, Darkness, the town of the Damned, the Cursed. It’s the dark side of nature. It’s all those things that we usually call spooky, and do not belong to the undead company.
Oh, and what of those alignments? Are they supposed to be magic schools? Or are they just symbols of what the towns represent?
Thanks for your opinions.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted January 25, 2004 03:52 AM |
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Hey Svarog, cool thread and an A grade diagram.
Have you thought about basic hero types for each of your towns? I have a few ideas, though a few won't change eg -Castle town.
Rampart.
Might: Ranger
Magic: Druid
Tower.
Might: Lord
Magic: Wizard
Castle.
Might: Knight
Magic: Cleric
Desert
Might: Sandrider
Magic: Prophet
Stronghold.
Might: Barbarian
Magic: Shaman
Fortress.
Might: Hunter
Magic: Witch
Aquatic.
Might: Trident Warrior
Magic: Sorcerer
Conflux.
Might: Planeswalker
Magic: Elementalist
Necropolis.
Might: Dark Knight
Magic: Necromancer
Dungeon.
Might: Dreadlord
Magic: Warlock
Shadow.
Might: Thief
Magic: Twisted Druid
Inferno.
Might: Torturer
Magic: Heretic
Feel free to criticise
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
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posted January 25, 2004 08:08 AM |
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Quote:
Rampart.
Might: Ranger
Magic: Druid
Tower.
Might: Lord
Magic: Wizard
Castle.
Might: Knight
Magic: Cleric
Desert
Might: Sandrider
Magic: Prophet
Stronghold.
Might: Barbarian
Magic: Shaman
Fortress.
Might: Hunter
Magic: Witch
Aquatic.
Might: Trident Warrior
Magic: Sorcerer
Conflux.
Might: Planeswalker
Magic: Elementalist
Necropolis.
Might: Dark Knight
Magic: Necromancer
Dungeon.
Might: Dreadlord
Magic: Warlock
Shadow.
Might: Thief
Magic: Twisted Druid
Inferno.
Might: Torturer
Magic: Heretic
Some of your opinions doesn't fit. I don't say that you create bad ones and I create good ones, but still, you need a wider variety of heroes.
Here are mine:
Rampart:
Might: Ranger
Magic: Druid
Tower:
Might: Lord
Magic: Wizard
Castle:
Might: Knight
Magic: Priest
Desert:
Might: Nomad
Magic: Voodoo
Stronghold:
Might: Barbarian
Magic: Shaman
Fortress:
Might: Beastmaster
Magic: Witch
Aquatic:
Might: Amazon
Magic: Seer
Conflux:
Might: Elementalist
Magic: Planeswalker
Necropolis:
Might: Death Knight
Magic: Necromancer
Dungeon:
Might: Commander
Magic: Warlock
Shadow:
Might: Banshee
Magic: Sorcerer
Inferno:
Might: Demoniac
Magic: Heretic
That's all. Maybe they're not the best, but at least, I hope they're not the last.
Feel free to criticize me too ...
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted January 26, 2004 04:19 PM |
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Castle Town.
What's the difference between a cleric and a priest? A cleric is a healer, a priest is religious, not necessarily a good priest. And we have monks as well in that towns army.
Desert town.
What's the difference between a Sandrider and a nomad?
To clarify, I envisioned the sandriders riding camels round the adventure screen, not horses like a nomad, and it still lets you have the nomad creature in an army.
Voodoo? That's not the desert at all, that's tropical swampy type magic, for which we both 'agreed' on witch. Since the desert town has most of it's mythology in arabic sources I thought Prophet might be apt. Or Swami maybe?
Fortress.
I tried to avoid where possible, using the advanced hero classes from H4. I thought 'Hunter' was good as it showed the predatory nature of many swamp creature toward intruders into their territory ie- they are hunted killed and EATEN! This might be a better place for Voodoo heroes, leaving witch to the aquatic town?
Aquatic.
I'll admit that I was groping in the dark here and 'Trident Warrior' might seem a bit lame. But Amazon implies only female heroes, which might be cool. But does that mean that Aquatic magic heroes should be all male? Funny, when I imagine it it's the other way around. Again I don't think Seer fits as I'm trying to stick with Basic hero classes. I thought sorcerer fitted in here as I hadn't used it anywhere else.
Necropolis.
Death Knight is the name of a creature, and again I tried to shy away from overlapping the two, it implies the hero should have the same special abilities as the creature.
Dungeon.
Commander sounds very organised and disciplined as a title. Dreadlord to me has that egotistical ring that a Dungeon hero should have. Surrounded by shrieking hordes of harpies and minotaurs that he controls by brute force and inspired fear!
Shadow.
No, sorry. In total and friendly disagreement here. Banshees are not Might ANYTHING! The Banshee is a female spirit/fairy that wails to warn of a death. I'm Irish btw
Thief is appropriate I thought as they embrace the shadows in their 'Art'. Assassin would have been another good one, but again I'm avoiding advanced hero classes as I heard a rumor Ubi might be adding even more than H4.
As Svarog has pointed out to his critics, Shadow towns are the Dark side of nature, and since other hero types have direct parallels -Knight/Dark Knight, I thought I'd do the same with the Druids, and I like the adjective 'twisted'. It implies insanity and a lack of morals which I find....appealing.
Inferno.
I disagreed with Demoniac even in H3 when I first heard the term. A demoniac is a wizard who specialises in the summoning of demons in order to enslave them to his will. Might heroes are not wizards of ANY type. And since the Inferno town is loosely based on Hell, whose job is to torture the souls of the wicked for all eternity, then Torturer was apt.
I know that all these views were not apparent from a bare list, but hopefully I may have changed your mind on at least some of them now you see how I made my choices. I broke my own rule of avoding advanced hero classes using Prophet and Warlock. But I was at a total loss to think of any Arabian style wizard type word (I considered Grand Vizier - watched Aladdin too much as a kid). And Dungeon towns have always had Warlocks so you couldn't leave them out.
As always. Feel free to criticise
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
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posted January 26, 2004 07:27 PM |
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If you think that almost all of my ideas are crap, think. I said you can feel free to criticize me (only don't swear). I see the point where I've made mistakes. So be it, I'm too tired to re-think them.
P.S. I have some hero ideas for other towns, so I won't use them here. Maybe I'll tell 'em when I've assembled all of my proposals.
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