|
| Thread: A new revolutianry alignment of towns....!!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Deimos
Known Hero
LHW Paladin
|
posted March 16, 2004 04:42 AM |
|
|
Quote:
TO Svarog - "Man turning into seal while walking. I’ll laugh my ass off if i see that."  OR a sea-cow - but with udder? like land ones  and he could have a special milk attack?
Got milk?
Mounted Knight-Champion
Invisible Man? Weird
Colossus-Giant
Flying Carpet?
What's the difference between Bandit and Rouge?
Fleshmade Abomination?
Kobold? What's a Kobold?
Fire Sorcerer?
Spiderwoman? How about Arachnis?
Two-Headed man?
Giant-how about Giganto?
Blob?
Beast?
Hippocampus?
These are weird creatures.
____________
Let's Have War=Best thread on HC.
By the way, my name is Deimos, not Diemos.
Some people don't have a life. Others spend it on HC- Lord Woock.
|
|
sikmar
Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
|
|
posted March 18, 2004 11:43 AM |
|
Edited By: sikmar on 18 Mar 2004
|
Almost perfect amalgam
TO SVAROG
First at all, I need to explain I'm a long time hero in this community, but my presence has been too scarce since the 3DO crash. I gave more than one opportunity to HOMM4 and even bought the expansions, but I finally lost interest in the game, clearly preferring to spend my little gaming time with WoG.
Luckily I took a look to your thread yesterday and, after reading the four pages... what a surprise! Having deeply thought about my preferred HOMM subjects (alignments, town philosophy, town enhancement & development, skill and magic restrictions by alignment) a long time ago, I found truly refreshing your amalgam of ideas. I have discussed many, many things with other heroes in this forum and I was starting to think there was no possibility of a new idea. Well, you have demostrated I was wrong. Congratulations, and may Ubisoft pay attention to your scheme.
I realize the majority of this thread took place in far january, but if you're willing to restart the discussion with a new challeger, it will be a pleasure to comment on you first post and add some of my HOMM-veteran-and-maniac ideas. Just say a word and I will post.
TO THE HYDRA
I think I had a very interesting discussion with you a long time ago. I'm not sure it was you, but your "analitical" style in this thread sounds familiar to me. The main subject was hero skills and classes but we almost did a complete revision of the game. Probably you weren't a moderator yet. Do you remember it or my memory betrays me?
____________
This is my truth. Tell me yours
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted March 25, 2004 02:27 AM |
|
|
Hallo, sikmar.
Truly a refreshment to find a serious poster interested for my proposal, other than the hydra. All the others were only discussing creatures and names, and did not really saw the essence of this system. So, I would be more than willing to have a word or two with you about this topic.
I was preparing a “final thought” post for this thread, but if you think that there’s more to be said, I’d be delighted to hear. And to be honest, I liked the word “almost” better, than “perfect” in your title. Cuz that’s why I’m here, to compare ideas, for the good of the new game. I don’t think our discussion will be as long as the one with hydra, since I hope that I thoroughly explained most of the idea, but if you have still any doubts about anything, please ask me. If you had read all the pages, as you said, you should know that this information was sent to the ubi team, so I hope some good will come out of it.
Ok, I’m ready. Let’s hear what you got.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
sikmar
Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
|
|
posted March 30, 2004 01:17 PM |
|
Edited By: sikmar on 30 Mar 2004
|
At last, my response
Greetings, Svarog
First at all, excuse the delay in sending this post. Real life doesn't mind about fantasy strategy games...
What I really liked of your post is that you tried to cover a wide aspect of the game, instead of numbering towns and creatures. Thinking of a game is more than just deciding whether Devil sounds better than Demon as a creature name... Some years ago I spent (I refuse to use the word "wasted") many hours trying to unite the best features of the three worlds and discussing about them. And I say "three" worlds cos I take into account some features of HOMM2, like branched campaigns (why can't the bad boys win a campaign?), negative artifacts (remember the Tax Lien?)Sphinx riddles or those monster caves...
I thought a lot about the most common features: number and type of towns and creatures, alignments, etc. Maybe these features are the most commonly suggested cos everyone wants to see their personal favorites in the game. In my case, I've always felt some kind of disappointment when a known creature disappears in the next issue of the game (like sprites vanishing in HOMM3:ROE, although they came back in the Armageddon's Blade expansion, to my pleasure). I want all my old creatures, all my old towns, and some new ones, and I'm willing to buy X expansions if they improve quantity and quality in a consistent manner... :-D At this point, your twelve towns give space for both of them.
Anyway, I always failed to merge the two magic systems, and I established only nine towns (people were then arguing there was too many towns and nine seemed a huge number), taking the HOMM3 ones and trying to improve them. One of my permanent paranoias where about town building, which should be not only limited by cash. But that is another story for another day...
About the magic system, I don't need to think anymore. Your proposal fulfills my wildest dreams, merging the elemental approach and the HOMM4 approach, and the rest is a matter of "tunning" the different spells to make them fit in one, two or more schools (great idea to share spells).
IMHO the only possible variation is about the quantity of spells available for the towns. I've always felt that a game surnamed "of might and magic" must have magic-oriented towns and might-oriented towns, offering the player different ways to glory and compensating the lack of magic with the adequate skills. The problem in HOMM has always been that you need to get both Magic and Might, so you always end with a similar orientation: a good magician with a stunning army.
Your schema binds almost any town with more than one magic school. Stronghold has only access to chaos, cos it has always been a less-magical school, but Confluxes can benefit from order and elemental spells, and tradition makes the Conflux a super-magic-oriented town. Consider what the Grial makes when built in the HOMM3 Conflux...
Switching Aquatic and Conflux positions could make Aquatic a less magical town, but then this town will have no Water magic and that makes no sense...
Anyway, given the complexity of the alignment you've created is very difficult to make coherent changes in the position of towns. The only idea that cames to my mind is to let stay your school distribution, but limiting the LEVEL of the magic guilds a town can build (like in good HOMM3).
An example:
Towns with only two magic levels (might-oriented)
Stronhold - Fortress - Desert - Aquatic
Towns with four magic levels (mixed-orientation)
Rampart - Conflux - Necropolis - Shadow
Towns with five magic levels (magic-orientation)
Castle - Tower - Inferno - Dungeon
This way the magic distribution remains consistent and we can choose between three might/magic orientations. The goal will be to keep all your schools in their original place, but limiting their level according to each town. There are two aspects we should care about:
1.- Five level spells of any school should be reachable by at last one town type, according to your schema. I haven't checked my town selection at this point, cos my selection was based mainly in the "mood" of the towns.
2.- Five level spells should be truly powerful and difficult to get, to better separate magic-oriented towns from mixed-orientation towns. In HOMM3 the fifth level magic guild was sometimes a waste of resources, having resurrection and dimension door as four level spells...
This is all for now. If you can "spend" (nor waste) some of your time, you can read my old suggestions in the following thread:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=6381
Regards and good fight
____________
This is my truth. Tell me yours
|
|
scorpion
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted March 31, 2004 04:17 PM |
|
|
I like your ideea Svarog it would be nice for a new begging in the story and gameplay of Heroes.Keep up the good work!!!
____________
|
|
regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
|
|
posted April 04, 2004 05:31 PM |
|
|
Svarog, I've noticed you decided to divide your posts about h5 in several topics, but I think you should place the storylind here. I can suggest you to create intro this way:
Many years have past since the Reckoning. Even after the wars, nobody thought that there will be peace. But one thing was particular: all armies were exhausted, many innocent people have died, surface of earth was completely destroyed.
But then again, two powerful heroes Greviar and Trae, fought each other, because of the need of neverending peace. Somebody had to prevail...
But when the fight started, something happened. Earth started to shake, portals of hell and other dimensions of evil started opening and the evil started spreading all over the Axeoth. Something was not right. This should have happened after two more years.
The kings were informed at the moment and prepared for the final battles. Somehow the Axeoth ancestors and newbies, allied with each other to delete the evil forever, but the teleported evil ones have done the same.
Another war began... But in graver danger...
Last war for the Axeoth began... who knows who will win.
____________
|
|
Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
|
|
posted April 04, 2004 05:42 PM |
|
|
Seems a bt simplistic regnus. More like another Reckoning all over again before we've got to grips with everyone on Axeoth in the first place
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
|
|
regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
|
|
posted April 04, 2004 05:44 PM |
|
|
nope I continued H4 WoW story ,not h4 original. Many years have past since reckoning. WoW was about a century to add. While my story goes round the latest 80's.
____________
|
|
Dyrvom
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 04, 2004 11:03 PM |
|
|
Hurray for criticism!!
Castle
1. Peasant (been done, okay, they're useful for the gold...)
2. Pikeman (cool)
3. Archer (cool)
4. Ballista (Never made sense to me, I think the H3 system was best, it needed more potential for the sige equipment though...)
5. Swordsman (cool)
6. Griffin (cool)
7. Monk (cool)
8. Mounted Knight (As stated above... Just say Cavalier- IT'S WHAT THEY ARE!!)
9. Pegasus (Pegasus Knight maybe? the horse alone wasn't very good at fighting...)
10. Angel (cool)
Tower
1. Gremlin (cool)
2. Invisible Man (So vague, not a good idea, how does he attack? How many friggin' special abilities must he have!?)
3. Dwarf (cool)
4. Stone Golem (Okay)
5. Mage (Stupid stupid stupid, I never understood why people want armies of crappy mini-heroes)
6. Gargoyle (cool)
7. Colossus (The Colossus? As in the Colossus of rhodes? HUH!?)
8. Valkirie (Cool)
9. Thunderbird (Historically the thunderbird was a much bigger deal than the game gave it credit)
10. Titan (cool)
Desert
1. Rogue (okay)
2. Flying Carpet (JUST A CARPET??)
3. Mummy (cool)
4. Nomad (I hated this one, it's so vague)
5. Giant Scorpion (Contrived)
6. Gigant (stupid... Just stupid)
7. Sphinx (cool)
8. Genie (cool)
9. Argus (cool)
10. Phoenix (cool)
Rampart
1. Gnome (Getting a little repetitive after Gremlin but okay)
2. Halfling (repetitive again)
3. Satyr (cool)
4. Fairy (cool)
5. Leprechaun (cool)
6. Druid (It's a hero, period)
7. Elf (cool)
8. Dryad (cool)
9. Unicorn (cool)
10. Green Dragon (cool)
Shadow
1. Bandit (same as rogue)
2. Harpy(cool)
3. Amazon Warrior (Contrived, or you just want to see more scantily clad women in HOMM?)
4. Witch (HERO)
5. Shadow (cool)
6. Troll (cool)
7. Werewolf (cool, a little hard to work in though)
8. Wolf Raider (Someone who raids wolves? be specific)
9. Dendroid (cool)
10. Chimera (cool)
Necropolis
1. Skeleton (cool)
2. Zombie (cool)
3. Ghost (cool)
4. Fleshmade Abomination (Technically most undead are made of flesh and are considered "abominations")
5. Wraith (cool but a little repetitive after ghost)
6. Vampire (cool)
7. Lich (cool)
8. Death Knight (HERO)
9. Bone Dragon (cool)
10. Grim Reaper (doesn't make sense, Grim reaper has many variations and is too amazingly powerful to belong as a creature)
Dungeon
1. Troglodyte (cool)
2. Kobold(cool)
3. Evil Eyes (I never saw them as creatures... It never made sense to me)
4. Fire Sorcerer (HERO)
5. Minotaur (cool)
6. Medusa (cool)
7. Earth Worm (...)
8. Spiderwoman (contrived)
9. Gargantuan (Big dude? giant?)
10. Black Dragon (cool)
Inferno
1. Imp (cool)
2. Gog (Gogs are so similar to Imps...)
3. Demon (vague! There are so many types of demons!)
4. Incubus (That's a type of Demon)
5. Cerberus (Cerberus was a powerhouse invincible beast of hell, why did they tone him down for HOMM?)
6. Pit Lord (Cool)
7. Efreet (cool)
8. Manticore (cool)
9. Brimo (cool)
10. Devil (cool)
Stronghold
1. Berserker (Okay)
2. Goblin (Okay)
3. Centaur (cool)
4. Two-headed man (stupid stupid stupid)
5. Orc (cool)
6. Wild Boar (never struck me as ver y clever, I don't care if it's from HOMM 2)
7. Ogre (cool)
8. Giant (OH COME ON)
9. Cyclops (cool I guess... But so many giants...)
10. Behemoth (It's a Grendel, I tell you!!)
Fortress
1. Gnoll (cool)
2. Blob (contrived)
3. Lizardman (Okay...)
4. Serpentman (Put in an upgrade system and copy HOMM3 or NO)
5. Basilisk (cool)
6. Python (Normal animals as creatures always annoyed me)
7. Dinosaur (Okay... THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF TYPES OF DINOSAURS!!)
8. Beast (cool- it would be vague but it's predictable enough)
9. Wyvern (cool)
10. Hydra (cool)
Aquatic
1. Pirate (Always struck me as stupid, especially since historical pirates were largely official soldiers and looked nothing like blackbeard)
2. Merman (Okay)
3. Hippocampus (Okay)
4. Nereid(Okay)
5. Siren (cool)
6. Oceanid (Huh?)
7. Naga (cool)
8. Kraken (cool)
9. Scylla (cool)
10. Leviathan(cool)
Note: Sea Town is not versatile enough. I hate the idea.
Conflux
1. Earth elem. (cool)
2. Air elem. (cool)
3. Water elem. (cool)
4. Fire elem. (cool)
5. Magma elem.(Fire + Earth = contrived)
6. Storm elem. (vague, what kind of storm? Stick with Air Elemental...)
7. Ice elem. (Okay... But the Upgrade system is crying out to you...)
8. Energy elem. (Electric dude... Just not creative)
9. Psychic elem. (contrived, it's basicially a ghost with a turban)
10. Will-O-Wisp (Will-O-Wisps are tiny and weak...)
About 20% are throwouts, I think you should have refined your list a little more. My thread "Allignment Proposal" has many of these creatures but differently arranged and more organized plus different leveling system and several "DoomsDay Spells" ideas thrown in.
____________
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted April 05, 2004 08:21 PM |
|
|
Sikmar,
Sorry for the time it took me to answer (again!!!). I was trying to read your insightful thread, but I didn’t finish it (it’s huge, and I’ve been busy lately). But will do soon.
What else can I say, other than agree with all the things you said (about quantity, good features from previous games...).
I also really like your idea about the limiting of the level of mage guilds. True, it wouldn’t be OK to see a Barbarian hero, casting a level 5 might spell.
But I could disagree about the distribution of the limitations, although I know you just categorized them “instinctively”.
I’d go for a more “magic-oriented” approach.
Up to level 3 mage guild: Only Stronghold.
Up to level 4 mage guild: All the central towns: Desert, Shadow, Fortress, Aquatic.
All levels (up to 5): Castle, Rampart, Dungeon, Inferno, Necro, Conflux, Order.
I’m aware that you want to limit the availability of the spells, so that towns can be more unique. And I’m absolutely supportive, if it was the homm3 system (easy to learn spells). But when I was creating this system, I was thinking about having secondary skills, much like the homm4 system. So, if you need to have three sec. skills in order to learn all the possible spells for a particular town, I don’t think this a very magic-oriented system. Surely, it centers the might/magic specialization more on heroes, rather than towns, as you suggest. But I don’t want to weaken substantionally some towns (or magic schools, for that matter) and make them “second class towns”.
@ regnus
I appreciate a lot your effort to read the storyline I wrote, but I’m gonna have to ask you to send posts about it in that thread. The discussions about the story and the system have little in common, so it wouldn’t be clean to put them in a same thread. Plus, this one was created a while ago.
On your point though, I share Asmodean’s opinion and can’t see how is that connected with the actual story. (Please post in the other thread about the story)
Dyrvom, I only put that creature list in order to give a general representation of the nature of the towns. Although I can argue about the reasons why I put each and every creature in a particular town, I’m not in the mood.
The names of the same creatures are especially a trivial issue. There has been some talk about the creatures. You can read some of my views on that, if you want.
The creatures listed in this thread are the absolute maximum I could get from all world mythologies, without having similar or odd-looking creatures. And I agree that it doesn’t look suitable for a game, but it’s my own private myth creatures collection. And won’t change it.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
M77
Hired Hero
|
|
posted April 06, 2004 02:13 AM |
|
|
I don't like so many towns and so many creatures in each one. Because of bad thematical matching of creatures. But I like idea of water town Aqua... (forgot). Instead of Conflux it will be cool. Or maybe instead of Conflux & Fortress.
____________
Come play my browser game:
http://mattery.com/
|
|
Ziltard
Hired Hero
|
|
posted April 06, 2004 05:29 PM |
|
|
Hey, anny chance you could rehost the image?
I want to see your system too, but the image is unloadable ...
____________
|
|
guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
|
|
posted January 05, 2005 08:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
About 20% are throwouts, I think you should have refined your list a little more. My thread "Allignment Proposal" has many of these creatures but differently arranged and more organized plus different leveling system and several "DoomsDay Spells" ideas thrown in.
By the looks of the list you have there, there's a touch of Lords of Magic in there. Not that it's bad; I love that game too. Did you get some ideas from that one?
-guitarguy
|
|
FireSpirit
Famous Hero
with warm hands
|
|
posted March 12, 2005 09:03 PM |
|
|
That is a fantastic idea. I love the magic system and the creatures are mainly good. If H5 will have a system similar to this, I´ll buy it.
____________
|
|
greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
|
|
posted March 16, 2005 06:14 PM |
|
|
Quote:
This sure as hell looks good and promising!
If this will not be invented in H5, no worth of getting the game.
____________
After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
|
|
lionharte
Adventuring Hero
Paladin of Light
|
posted March 19, 2005 08:55 AM |
|
|
huh?
your desert town is strange. those monsters are more suited for an evil town.
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted April 09, 2005 05:25 AM |
|
|
Seeing as you guys voted this thread as the best heroes idea for 2004, i thought i could give ye a little something as thanx. I improved the original first post of this thread, so that the entire idea is much better explained and looks more coherrent. See for yourself. (and a good occassion for those who didnt bother reading the debate between me and hydra before see what has actually come out of those 5 pages of endless ramble )
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
|
|
posted April 09, 2005 01:41 PM |
|
|
The extra explanantion for the Morale system was extrememly enlightening, something I feel intuitively HOMM-ish about it.
Too late for HOMMV I see though, HOMMVI?
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
|
|
DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
|
|
posted April 14, 2005 01:22 PM |
|
|
Hi, Svarog.
After seeing dozens of lame ass suggestions for new HOMM games, I was not overly optimistic or enthusiastic when opening your thread.
That quickly changed. I am thoroughly impressed with the depth and ingenuity of your system, and feel that it deserves much kudos.
Don't know what more to say, except you and Hydra should really learn how to do <b>this</b>.
The almost invisible ""'s gave me a headache, and I gave up trying to read your replies to one another. Use formatting and paragraphs, and perhaps more people will go through it all.
And just as an aside, what do you do for a living?
____________
There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
|
|
devil1979
Hired Hero
|
|
posted April 15, 2005 10:39 PM |
|
|
absalutely awesome
you have done terribly well and i hope this is a breakthrough for heroes 6 or at least an expansion for towns for heroes 5 depending what they have created...
thiers only 2 minor opinions mate...
1. what happened to the gorgon
2. i think gnomes with their reputation of ingenius designs should be in the tower what do u think???
apart from that its great its very well structured for the existing towns and additional towns...
i agree with pirates being neutral they only live for plunder and in any event rarely like interacting with other creatures.......
cant knock nothing on the rest mate id love to play a game with this structure of choice and possible strategies on these town armies
your uncle dev
____________
|
| |
|
|
