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| Thread: Christians raise your hands |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
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posted May 10, 2004 12:43 AM |
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When agnostics die, do they go to the Great Perhaps? 
Well then, there's still hope for your soul. Better than athiest anyway!
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Knowledge is power...
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted May 10, 2004 01:00 AM |
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That would depend on how Benevolent any god that might exist truly is
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted May 10, 2004 06:47 AM |
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Khaelo,I was thinking along the exact same line when I wrote my post, Abandoning my faith because of a few misguided people is not the right direction for me to go in. I should stick to the holy word and forgive them for they know not what the do, So to speak, Right?
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted May 10, 2004 07:25 AM |
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Quote:
Also you left out the Orthodox religions of Eastern Europe, which is a big no-no as they have existed as a seperate body for well over 1000 years and are still going strong in at least 2 countries I can think of (Russia and Greece and it exists also in the Balkan region) today.
Still going strong? Its funny, couse you make its sound like its some casual trend that will pass in a few years  .
Anyway, Russia and Greece are just 2 of the countries (as you said) that are orthodox, but many other are. Actually almost whole of the eastern Europe is.
One thing i allways hated (though being an atheist) is the level of ignorance amonge the americans about orthodox church. Many dont even know it exist, or have only heard about it but have no real idea what is it.
Here is a little lesson, for anyone who's wondering about it:
The Great Schism between the Eastern and the Western Church (1054) was the culmination of a gradual process of estrangement between the east and west that began in the first centuries of the Christian Era and continued through the Middle Ages. Linguistic and cultural differences, as well as political events, contributed to the estrangement. From the 4th to the 11th century, Constantinople, the center of Eastern Christianity, was also the capital of the Eastern Roman, or Byzantine, Empire, while Rome, after the barbarian invasions, fell under the influence of the Holy Roman Empire of the West. In the West theology gradually lost its immediate contact with the rich theological tradition of the Christian East. Theological differences could have probably been settled if there were not two different concepts of church authority. The growth of Roman primacy, based on the concept of the apostolic origin of the Church of Rome which claimed not only titular but also jurisdictional authority above other churches, was incompatible with the traditional Orthodox ecclesiology. The Eastern Christians considered all churches as sister churches and understood the primacy of the Roman bishop only as primus inter pares among his brother bishops. For the East, the highest authority in settling doctrinal disputes could by no means be the authority of a single Church or a single bishop but an Ecumenical Council of all sister churches. In the course of time the Church of Rome adopted various wrong teachings which were not based in the Tradition and finally proclaimed the teaching of the Pope's infallibility when teaching ex cathedra. This widened the gap even more between the Christian East and West. The Protestant communities which split from Rome in the course of centuries diverged even more from the teaching of the Holy Fathers and the Holy Ecumenical Councils. Due to these serious dogmatic differences the Orthodox Church is not in communion with the Roman Catholic and Protestant communities. More traditional Orthodox theologians do not recognize the ecclesial and salvific character of these Western churches at all, while the more liberal ones accept that the Holy Spirit acts to a certain degree within these communities although they do not possess the fullness of grace and spiritual gifts like the Orthodox Church.
At the time of the Schism of 1054 between Rome and Constantinople, the membership of the Eastern Orthodox Church was spread throughout the Middle East, the Balkans, and Russia, with its center in Constantinople.The most conspicuous characteristics of Orthodoxy are its rich liturgical life and its faithfulness to the apostolic tradition. It is believed by Orthodox Christians that their Church has preserved the tradition and continuity of the ancient Church in its fullness compared to other Christian denominations which have departed from the common tradition of the Church of the first 10 centuries. Today Orthodox Church numbers approximately 300 million Christians who follow the faith and practices that were defined by the first seven ecumenical councils. The word orthodox ("right belief and right glory") has traditionally been used, in the Greek-speaking Christian world, to designate communities, or individuals, who preserved the true faith (as defined by those councils), as opposed to those who were declared heretical. The official designation of the church in its liturgical and canonical texts is "the Orthodox Catholic Church"
The Orthodox Church is not a single church but rather a family of 13 "autocephalous," or self-governing, churches. They are united in their understanding of the sacraments, doctrine, liturgy, and church government, but each administers its own affairs.
The head of each autocephalous church is called a "patriarch" or "metropolitan." The patriarch of Constantinople (that is, Istanbul, Turkey) is considered the "ecumenical," or universal, patriarch. He enjoys special honor but no power to interfere with the 12 other Orthodox communions.
Many Westerners have been confused about Orthodoxy's distinct identity. In the American armed services, military identification tags of enlisted Orthodox believers once bore the inscription "Protestant."
On the other hand, some western theologians have dismissed Orthodoxy outright. Nineteenth-century church historian Adolf von Harnack wrote, "The Orthodox Church is in her entire structure alien to the gospel and represents a perversion of the Christian religion, its reduction to the level of pagan antiquity."
The Orthodox Church claims to be the one, true church of Christ. Orthodox thinkers debate the spiritual status of Roman Catholics and Protestants, and a few still consider them heretics.
The doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of Orthodoxy and this is the thing i really like about it. I never heard and orthodox priest saying or doing something justifing him self with the bible.
I know this is a bit off-topic but i just wanted to clarify some things
Edit: i forgot to mention that, for how much i would like to take credit for this, most of it is taken from varius sites....so dont you "we don't like copy/paste material" me
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And now to the next post.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted May 10, 2004 01:45 PM |
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"I always admired atheists. I think it takes a lot of faith."
Diane Frolov and Andrew Schneider
"If there were no God, there would be no Atheists."
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
"Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God."
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
Looking at that last one and these threads, it seems it's true. 
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 10, 2004 02:07 PM |
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How clever!
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted May 10, 2004 03:24 PM |
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I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
Albert Einstein
The World As I See It
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 10, 2004 05:26 PM |
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Check Your Facts
Albert Einstein did not write or say that. I don't know where you get your facts from. Einstein was Jewish and fled from Germany because he was a Jew.
Perhaps you were referring to some other Albert Einstein. Lots of people have that name.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 10, 2004 06:20 PM |
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Consis, do you know the difference between Jewish heritage and Jewish religion?
Of course that Einstein quote is correct. And as you seem to like it, here are a few more from him:
I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being.
-- Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray. Source: Albert Einstein: The Human Side, Edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffmann
I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
-- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding “Do you believe in God?” Quoted from and citation notes derived from Victor J. Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001), chapter 3.
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted May 10, 2004 06:36 PM |
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"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein may not have based his life solely on religion, but at least he acknowledged its possibility.
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted May 10, 2004 08:26 PM |
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And whats up with all this "Albert Einstein this A.E. that"? So what if he said those things? Being smarter or more famus than other people doasent make you opinions more valid.
But should i go with a flow i would say:
"There are 2 things that are endless in this world. Universe and human stupidity"
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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And now to the next post.
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Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
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posted May 10, 2004 08:37 PM |
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If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
(j/k)
Seriously, it doesn't matter if Eistein thought religion is stupid. (although I agree with Shirastro's quote) He was just wrong!
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Knowledge is power...
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted May 10, 2004 09:16 PM |
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Quote:
"If there were no God, there would be no Atheists."
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
What a remarkably ignorant man he must have been given what most Athiests actually believe.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 10, 2004 11:35 PM |
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Quote:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein may not have based his life solely on religion, but at least he acknowledged its possibility.
What possibility?
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2004 03:11 PM |
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Quote:
"If there were no God, there would be no Atheists."
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
Then I say: If there were no believers ther would be no God.
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Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
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posted May 12, 2004 07:16 PM |
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But I say that if there were no God, there would be no believers. And since there are believers...
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Knowledge is power...
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted May 12, 2004 07:52 PM |
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food for thought...
A quote from a reading in the "Jesus, Paul, and the Origins of Christianity" course I'm currently taking:
Luke Timothy Johnson, The Real Jesus (1996), p.168:Quote:
From the start, Christianity has been rooted in the paradoxical claim that a human being executed as a criminal is the source of God's life-giving and transforming Spirit. From the start, this "good news" has been regarded as foolishness to the wise of the world. Christianity has never been able to "prove" its claims except by appeal to the experience and convictions of those already convinced. The only real validation for the claim that Christ is what the creed claims him to be, that is, light from light, true God from true God, is to be found in the quality of life demonstrated by those who make this confession...
The claims of the gospel cannot be demonstrated logically. They cannot be proven historically. They can be validated only existentially by the witness of authentic Christian discipleship.
That quote rang very true to me (with regard to religion in general). Comments from the Christians in the house?
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disguised as a responsible adult
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted May 12, 2004 08:11 PM |
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Quote:
But I say that if there were no God, there would be no believers. And since there are believers...
People believe in the loch ness monster, bigfoot, UFO's, ghosts, luck, fate, superstition and all sorts of weird and silly things. Not all of them "have" to be true.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted May 12, 2004 10:19 PM |
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I always felt it was sort of ironic how people use their God given free will to choose to not believe in him.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted May 12, 2004 10:25 PM |
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Is it just me, or this thread to changing from "christians" to "atheist raise your hands"
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And now to the next post.
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