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TheDeath
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posted July 07, 2008 09:47 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 21:48, 07 Jul 2008.
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The boss did not bring that respective employer into the situation in which he is broke or has no money and needs the job.
Besides, that employer can be employed somewhere else -- the fetus cannot, not that it does not want, but simply cannot feed itself, for example.
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del_diablo
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posted July 07, 2008 09:57 PM |
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Besides, that employer can be employed somewhere else -- the fetus cannot, not that it does not want, but simply cannot feed itself, for example.
Who said there was a availon job the employi was qualified to get?
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TheDeath
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posted July 07, 2008 10:00 PM |
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Point is that it wasn't the boss's influence since he did not "brought" the employer into that situation (let's say, being poor).
It would be like having to take care of someone else's baby -- obviously in the fetus' case, it is your baby, so you gave life to it, that's why it's different. 
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del_diablo
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posted July 07, 2008 10:16 PM |
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Quote:
Point is that it wasn't the boss's influence since he did not "brought" the employer into that situation (let's say, being poor).
It would be like having to take care of someone else's baby -- obviously in the fetus' case, it is your baby, so you gave life to it, that's why it's different.
Ok............. you said the following "Full responsibilety even if its a accident".
A boss fireing a employ is somewhere along those ranges.
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TheDeath
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posted July 07, 2008 10:18 PM |
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Wait, who said that firing someone is an accident? 
(made by the boss, not the employee!)
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del_diablo
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posted July 07, 2008 10:37 PM |
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Wait, who said that firing someone is an accident?
(made by the boss, not the employee!)
So you are against abortion if it is on purpose too?
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TheDeath
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posted July 07, 2008 10:42 PM |
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Ok you did not get my point.
The boss fires his employer because... doesn't matter.
The idea is, that the boss is not the one that put that individual into that bad situation (let's say he starves without the job). Does the boss have any connection to that individual? Does he have any connection to african starving children? No.
Does a mother have any connection to the fetus? Yes, since she is the one who conceived it, thus putting it into that awful situation. The boss is not responsible for that individual's starving, the mother is since she conceived the fetus. You can't have someone starving without existing, right? Thus the mother has the fault! And thus should expect the consequences.
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del_diablo
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posted July 07, 2008 10:49 PM |
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The idea is, that the boss is not the one that put that individual into that bad situation (let's say he starves without the job). Does the boss have any connection to that individual? Does he have any connection to african starving children? No.
The boss is the one who pais his employs and hires them. So it is a connection.
Unless we are in the communist model, there will be a boss.
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TheDeath
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posted July 07, 2008 11:00 PM |
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The boss is the one who pais his employs and hires them. So it is a connection.
Yes but not with the guy's "personal" life before he even met the boss!
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del_diablo
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posted July 07, 2008 11:12 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
The boss is the one who pais his employs and hires them. So it is a connection.
Yes but not with the guy's "personal" life before he even met the boss!
Sorry for doing such a stupid argument, but i wanted to se what you replyed with.
Lets agree and say this argument ended in a tie? I feel neither of us is capabel of convincing to opposite part to give up 
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mvassilev
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posted July 08, 2008 12:38 AM |
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No, no, this is a very interesting example. The boss gave the employee some income. Then the boss needs to fire the employee for whatever reason. But can he? After all, he gave the employee a source of income, and he's dependent on it. After all, no one forced the boss to hire the employee. So the boss has no right to make the employee's life worse and take away his income, since that might make him suffer (or even starve). Right?
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del_diablo
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posted July 08, 2008 12:05 PM |
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No, no, this is a very interesting example. The boss gave the employee some income. Then the boss needs to fire the employee for whatever reason. But can he? After all, he gave the employee a source of income, and he's dependent on it. After all, no one forced the boss to hire the employee. So the boss has no right to make the employee's life worse and take away his income, since that might make him suffer (or even starve). Right?
My point.
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TheDeath
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posted July 08, 2008 01:25 PM |
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No, no, this is a very interesting example. The boss gave the employee some income. Then the boss needs to fire the employee for whatever reason. But can he? After all, he gave the employee a source of income, and he's dependent on it. After all, no one forced the boss to hire the employee. So the boss has no right to make the employee's life worse and take away his income, since that might make him suffer (or even starve). Right?
Wait wait wait...
if we're talking about a private company, then obviously the employer should know that he can be kicked out whenever the boss wants -- thus not 'reliable'.
If we're talking about a governmental one, then you can't just fire out someone like that, at least not in my country, because it is supposed to be "dependent" -- unless a good reason (obviously excluding the fact that the employer did something wrong, in which case it's his fault so it's ok to be fired!).
The problem you use above is being irresponsible. The employer should be mature enough to know that private companies are not "dependable" and thus be prepared for the case in which he is fired. Obviously, or are you talking about people that can't think?
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mvassilev
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posted July 08, 2008 02:58 PM |
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the employer should know that he can be kicked out whenever the boss wants -- thus not 'reliable'.
You mean "employee", not "employer", right?  And yes, he should know. Maybe he does know. But he became dependent on it anyway (and most people are dependent on their jobs). So does the employer have the right to fire him? After all, he is dependent on the job.
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TheDeath
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posted July 08, 2008 03:05 PM |
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Yeah employee
I don't mean that he has to not be dependent -- but that he has to be prepared for that if he signed up for a job on a private company/whatever.
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mvassilev
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posted July 08, 2008 03:19 PM |
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I don't mean that he has to not be dependent -- but that he has to be prepared for that if he signed up for a job on a private company/whatever.
Well, how can one be prepared? I mean, a lot of people live from paycheck to paycheck, and there's very little that they can do about it. How could he be prepared for it?
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TheDeath
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posted July 08, 2008 03:22 PM |
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A good start would be for him to have some other income assured OR (for example) to keep some reserved money in case it happens, until he gets a new job, or simply dies (but that wouldn't be the boss' fault, since he wasn't the one who 'put' the employee in the society anyway).
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mvassilev
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posted July 08, 2008 03:35 PM |
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A good start would be for him to have some other income assured OR (for example) to keep some reserved money in case it happens
Sure, that'd be good, but many people can't afford to do that. How can they have other income if they work a 12-hour day at a very exhausting job (for example)? And what if their pay is so low that they can't afford to save?
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TheDeath
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posted July 08, 2008 03:51 PM |
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But the boss is not responsible for the employee's situation. For example, the first time the employee comes to the boss, it means he has no job -- the boss is not responsible for that, because he did not "put" him in that condition and society. But, if the boss were to drag, for example, a cavemen that would feed himself in the wild, into a city (let's suppose the cavemen doesn't have rights since he's not in society yet), then the boss is responsible for giving him a job and paying him -- since otherwise the cavemen would not "starve" in the wild (a fetus that doesn't exist can't starve).
Your example places no responsibility on the boss for the employee's former situation (before he got the job in the first place) that's why it's different.
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mvassilev
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posted July 08, 2008 05:21 PM |
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But the boss is not responsible for the employee's situation.
But he is. Remember that he hired him. If he didn't want him to be in a condition like that, he shouldn't have hired him. 
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