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TheDeath
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posted July 10, 2009 03:42 PM |
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I'm sorry but by your logic, when she says no, rape or other types of forced sex would go unpunished, and that's not a good thing either.
And by the way, the father of the child needs to support the child (financially or otherwise)... so the rapist, even if he isn't convicted, doesn't get away either. (unless it's proved the woman forced him, in which case, he gets away)
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JollyJoker
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posted July 10, 2009 03:57 PM |
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Are you just not getting it that you
a) have to PROVE rape - you cannot convict a person just because another person says so, ESPECIALLY when saying so would mean an abortion without consequences for the woman.
b) that you cannpt dictate people their life just because a person gets pregnant.
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Doomforge
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posted July 10, 2009 04:07 PM |
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Quote:
If your country has over 100 million inhabitants: Then you can only get one child.
That would make Russia a wasteland.
Quote:
If your country has over 10 million inhabitantes: Then you can only get 3 kids.
What if the country is the size of San Marino, but with severe overpopulation? 
edit: ah, JJ said the same thing. 
As for the rape stuff, it's a delicate matter, you don't want vengeful women charging men for rape because they dumped her or something (I know there is forensic examination and stuff, but it obviously doesn't work when she says she has been raped a year ago..)
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TheDeath
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posted July 10, 2009 04:25 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 16:27, 10 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
Are you just not getting it that you
a) have to PROVE rape - you cannot convict a person just because another person says so, ESPECIALLY when saying so would mean an abortion without consequences for the woman.
b) that you cannpt dictate people their life just because a person gets pregnant.
If you don't prove rape, and it happened, then the man ALREADY gets away with it. Why wouldn't he also get away with the murder charge?
EDIT: However he does NOT get away with supporting the baby (financially or otherwise), since that's easily proven if it's his. So no, he doesn't get away with everything, even if rape isn't proven (but he is a rapist). Whereas in the other example he would totally get away with it.
And yes you can dictate people their life when it involves others and not just themselves. You can dictate their life if they make an accident and injure somebody also (and then have to pay for the victim's treatment), unless they want to be charged of course.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 10, 2009 05:48 PM |
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I start to doubt your common sense.
Pregnant woman claims rape. Doesn't want baby.
A) If PROVEN WITHOUT A DOUBT rape -> abortion allowed and (following your brillant ideas) raper charged for murder IF the woman decides pro-abortion.
B) If NOT proven without a doubt rape -> abortion not allowed and woman charged for murder, if the woman decides pro-abortion.
For OBVIOUS reasons decision has to be made ASAP.
Every doc helping abortion: charged for helping with murder.
Must be the worst legal idea since burning witches.
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Elodin
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posted July 10, 2009 06:53 PM |
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Why should the human life in the womb be murdered because his father is a rapist?
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TheDeath
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posted July 10, 2009 07:05 PM |
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I start to doubt your common sense.
Pregnant woman claims rape. Doesn't want baby.
A) If PROVEN WITHOUT A DOUBT rape -> abortion allowed and (following your brillant ideas) raper charged for murder IF the woman decides pro-abortion.
B) If NOT proven without a doubt rape -> abortion not allowed and woman charged for murder, if the woman decides pro-abortion.
You have some problems understanding that in case B the rapist WOULD GET AWAY ALREADY, without a rape charge.
There are TWO charges here: charge for RAPE, and charge for MURDER if abortion is done. If you can't prove rape, you can't even charge him with rape, and that IS bad already because it says he can basically get away with it COMPLETELY.
Why would the murder charge, then, be so non-sensical, if HE ALREADY GOT AWAY WITH IT?
However he doesn't get away with it completely, as I said, he has to financially support the child. With abortion and no murder charge, he would get rid COMPLETELY of charges.
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baklava
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posted July 10, 2009 07:08 PM |
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Why should the human life in the womb be murdered because his father is a rapist?
I don't know.
I guess you'll have to wait until your wife, girlfriend or daughter gets raped and find out yourself.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 10, 2009 07:56 PM |
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@ Bak
I can't say I always agree with you, but I admit - willingly - that your comments are spot on sometimes. 
@ Death
Your problem is that you are wasting to much energy with looking for BLAMING someone ans MAKE THEM PAY. Actually that doesn't really help anyone.
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TheDeath
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posted July 10, 2009 08:08 PM |
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Well I am somewhat wrathful but it's not necessarily about punishment but deterrence, I think.
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Elodin
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posted July 10, 2009 08:19 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Why should the human life in the womb be murdered because his father is a rapist?
I don't know.
I guess you'll have to wait until your wife, girlfriend or daughter gets raped and find out yourself.
In other words there if no moral reason you can come up with to murder the innocent human life solely because his father is a rapist.
A human life in the mother's womb should not be murdered for the sole reason that:
1) the father raped her.
2) the father beat her up
3) the father is a bum who whon't work to support her
4) the father is not emotionally supportive
5) the father won't marry her
6) ect
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JollyJoker
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posted July 10, 2009 08:30 PM |
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Well, as strange as it may seem, I agree.
Additionally the mother shoudn't want it.
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Elodin
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posted July 10, 2009 08:56 PM |
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The mother not wanting a baby should not entitle her to murder the human life in her womb. Otherwise you are also saying that she should have the right to kill any of her children that she does not want even after they have alreay been born.
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baklava
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posted July 10, 2009 09:12 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 21:18, 10 Jul 2009.
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You know what'd also be cool? If the rapist had AIDS. That way the only right thing to do is make a human being grow up in an orphanage, knowing that his father is a rapist and his mother died of AIDS.
But anything to make you feel morally superior, eh?
No, if there is murder involved in the process of post-rape abortion, the rapist is to blame. He is responsible for planting life forcefully and carelessly in a hostile environment in order to just please himself by raping an innocent woman. He is to take all the credit. If you throw your child off a cliff, it's your fault. Not gravity's.
I am myself neutral about the abortion issue in general. But this? Of course the woman will abort, you maniac. If abortion's murder, charge the rapist.
On another note, I think that the Church needs to decide whether it wants to abolish condoms or abortion.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 10, 2009 09:13 PM |
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Quote:
The mother not wanting a baby should not entitle her to murder the human life in her womb. Otherwise you are also saying that she should have the right to kill any of her children that she does not want even after they have alreay been born.
No, not really. I just say, unless she has sleeping periods of 3 months and longer she had her chance.
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TheDeath
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posted July 10, 2009 09:18 PM |
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Quote:
On another note, I think that the Church needs to decide whether it wants to abolish condoms or abortion.
Why limit yourself only to those two options?
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baklava
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posted July 10, 2009 09:21 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 21:28, 10 Jul 2009.
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I am sorry, I apparently missed the option of installing a spermicidal laser-shooting droid between my crotch.
Down, Sarcasm, down! He's getting out of control lately. Do forgive him.
Both of those options aside, of course it'd be easiest if the Church didn't try to abolish anything, but God knows that's not how the Catholic Church works. It needs to go around forbidding something, even in this liberal age we're living in. But I think forbidding both condoms and abortion just doesn't stack with today's society, that's all I'm saying.
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TheDeath
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posted July 10, 2009 09:25 PM |
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Come on, sometimes too much sarcasm is too much.
What about abolishing non-procreative sex? Does it take a genius to find it out?
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baklava
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posted July 10, 2009 09:29 PM |
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What about abolishing non-procreative sex? Does it take a genius to find it out?
Not genius. Just either a eunuch or a man who doesn't have any chance to score in his lifetime.
Damnit, Sarcasm, I said down!
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TheDeath
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posted July 10, 2009 09:40 PM |
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Quote:
Not genius. Just either a eunuch or a man who doesn't have any chance to score in his lifetime.
Yeah. And only people who would never be ABLE to take their dose abolish drugs right?
But then that's the Church. Can't say I am actually as judgmental and ridiculing-for-no-point as you regarding it 
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