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| Thread: Svarog faces his adversary |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 12, 2004 04:04 AM |
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Quote:
 If bort were here, he'd tell you that there is an equal amount of good and bad to the u.s.
Consis, please don't presume to put words in my mouth. Speak your own mind, don't try to speak mine.
What I actually would have said was "different strokes for different folks." I personally think there are more good things about the US than bad. Just because I intensely dislike the individual who is in charge here and because I acknowledge that the US has flaws doesn't mean I don't truly love the land. Personally, I'd argue that both of those things are evidence of me loving this country rather than the opposite, but hey, whatever. Anyway, I don't really care if Svarog liked the US or not, I like it, and whether or not somebody else does doesn't really change that. I'm not going to wax poetic about what makes me love the US (I've done that in other threads already, so if people are really interested, they can search for it) in the hopes of changing Svarog's mind. He likes Macedonia better? Well good for him.
Svarog -- sorry you didn't have a great time overall, but glad you enjoyed New York (I thought I felt a deep chill around July 30th, must be because the scourge of Aardvarks was nearby). It really is a great place to visit, and its an even better place to live. Don't kid yourself into thinking you went by "all" the landmarks, you barely scratched the surface, there's a lot more to New York than can be experienced in a day. I will say that you should consider visiting again when your older and can set your own schedule and itinerary rather than be forced to stay with some wiener family in freakin' Baltimore. Not because I think you'll suddenly love the US or even that I care if you do, but because it's a different country when you're seeing what you want to see and experience what you want to experience than it is when your given the "'merica in a box" type of experience.
And for cryin' out loud, stay in New York past sunset next time. (Also, if you were anywhere near Times Square, you didn't have "New York Pizza," you had what we refer to as "filthy tourist slop.")
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Drive by posting.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 12, 2004 08:27 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 22 Aug 2004
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It's A Formality At Best
"Consis don't presume....blah blah blah....." Actually you leave me with no choice but to presume. Don't get your feathers ruffled if you see other people "presuming" you to be a certain way.
Do you see that 65/65 picture over there below my nickname? That's really me. All the good points, bad points, and in between. I'm a real person with real feelings, problems, and opinions. It's one thing to disagree with someone but if you don't even know to whom you are in disagreement with, that's quite frustrating.
First of all, I have looked into several of your postings. I didn't simply take a leap of conjecture to the comment I made. I would strongly argue that the majority of your posts consists of maintaining a fair and objective outlook on almost every subject. Aside from your habitual inconsiderate shallow remarks(toilet humor mostly) my researched opinion of you(based solely on your past posts) reveals your truly objective predisposition. Perhaps predisposition is a bit harsh but I am taking into account your sense of humor. If you don't like my educated guessing(presuming) then either shove off or introduce yourself as I have already so courteously done for you.
This is still the internet. Granted, I'm not handing out phone numbers, addresses, social security numbers, etc. I simply would rather you and I respect each other for the people we are in real life. But if you insist on maintaining your secrecy then I must apologize now for my future posting. I will, no doubt, continue to guess at your person.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted August 12, 2004 10:45 PM |
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well that was certainly offtopic
Svarog, I for one would be interested in hearing more. I think its very interesting looking at something through another person's eyes 
Also, I have never been to the United States myself, so your posts have been fascinating - please go on!
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted August 13, 2004 05:48 AM |
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Quote:
Svarog -- sorry you didn't have a great time overall, but glad you enjoyed New York
Now wait a minute. Who said anything about not having a great time? I had the bestest time there this year. Every day we did something, that I either rarely do or have never done it. Literally, every day. How can that be not having a great time? I was only giving my impressions here. I didnt mention what my experiences were, and they were both many and unique. Plus we were a whole bunch of people all the time.
Quote:
(I thought I felt a deep chill around July 30th, must be because the scourge of Aardvarks was nearby).
Ummm, not really. I had gasses then. 
Quote:
Not because I think you'll suddenly love the US or even that I care if you do, but because it's a different country when you're seeing what you want to see and experience what you want to experience than it is when your given the "'merica in a box" type of experience.
You are right about New York and I know I missed a lot. And without getting a feel of the night there, its like going skiing when there is no snow. And, thanks for enlightening me why the pizza tasted so disgusting.
But, "America in a box" was not the experience I had, thank you. I went there for one month, I stayed in an American family for 2 weeks, had someone smart enough to discuss most aspects of USA, and practically we reached the point when we ran out of places to go anymore, while we were in Baltimore. Now I know its not the same as for example living there for a year or so, but I met a guy from Slovakia who was working at the pool, and after some chatting he told me that he'd been working there for 2 months and didnt go anywhere (not even a pub), since he was saving the money. I think we were lucky enough that the State Department covered everything for us (even the wall that I broke; btw i have a picture ), and probably next time when on my own, I will not do nearly a half of the things I did now.
About me not liking the US. OK, this is delicate, but I'll be entirely honest now. It is no secret that I absolutely detest the American government and their ways, from every aspect. Also, seeing US as the biggest capitalist giant and global exploitator, needless to say, that doesnt evoke any sympathies either. But I know it has nothing to do with the people there, who are normal people just like any other place on the globe. They want the best for their families, and other people also. But just like everywhere (Macedonia included), people are sheep when it comes to identifying and defending their interests and politics (in fact, i think especially in Macedonia they are sheep.) Now this was the attitude I had before coming there. As I said, it still isnt changed, and everything came as expected when it comes to American culture (what I like to think as me being excellently informed ). But something did change. It must have had, otherwise the entire month there would be in vain. When I left US, I left with a more positive impression, a feeling of sympathy. Why? Not because I learned new stuff that I thought were different before. No. But because the dry factual information was transfused in an emotional experience I gained. Its one thing when they describe how it is to walk on the moon, its entirely different thing to do it yourself. Having experienced that, it became a part of me, and we all know who Svarog loves the most .
Its different if say, Pan (who lives in Canada) would have to describe USA and when a Macedonian, as me, would describe it. Even if we experience the very same thing, our impressions will be different, since we have two different viewpoints, that are geographically thousands of miles away from each other. I like to think of myself as an objective person (again, I dont believe in that word. lol. "objective" as in "not biased, without prejudices"). And honestly I think I was objective, but I used the Macedonian matrix of objectivity, which would be somewhat different from the Canadian one, and even entirely different from the Egyptian one.
Now, I know people are not really overjoyed listening to me criticizing their country. What's even more, is that the standards for comparison were Macedonian. And although I dont think they'd admit it, Americans find it unbelievable how can someone actually not like their country (unless he's an evil religious fundamentalist or terrorist), when we all know its the greatest country in the world. And now compared to Macedonia, it appears to be like North Korea or something in Svarog's eyes. Well, far from it.
USA can be only a role model both for my country and most countries in the world, in terms of political and economical stability, civilized society, functioning system, technological advancement, democracy and freedom. All these with some minor flaws, but if we look at our countries, we'll see that we are so far behind. But I didnt want this thread to become boring sentimental wannabe USA garbage. "You know, the USA has clean public toilets.", "The USA has well arranged green areas, with real grass." etc. which is all true and I tried to squeeze it into few words in the beginning, but I guess Americans are used to hearing only the nice words about home.
I'm glad some of you liked my posts.  @ pan.
But I'm not gonna continue telling my experiences, cause I dont think it's necessary people to know everything I did there. Partly because some of them are for me only, and partly because I'm too lazy writing all of that.
But I will share with you my impressions as long as you want. If there's some specific issue that you'd like to ask me about, please do, cause I'm out of ideas already. Ahh, except the story about Todd, which I will tell you about tomorrow (need to write that idea down, or I'll forget it).
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 13, 2004 04:08 PM |
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Then, Svarog, I'm sorry I misinterpreted your post. I do want to say that I was not offended by your posts, I don't know if you think I was or not, but just to be crystal clear.
The reasons people get defensive when their country is criticized (and this is not exclusive to Americans, mind you), best I can tell is a couple of reasons 1. since they are part of that country, and in some small way make the country what it is, criticism of the country is often viewed as criticism of them and 2. since if they are lucky, they, consciously or not, made the decision to live in the that country and feel that their decision making is being mocked.
Regarding not understanding how people could dislike the US, I understand perfectly, just because I like it doesn't mean I don't understand the dislike (and even, in some cases, the hatred). Well, at least I think I understand it, it's hard to get into someone elses head. And I don't think the reason is "jealousy" (that might play a role in some people's dislike/hatred, but I don't think its the common thread or even that there is a common thread.) I once received some very good advice that I like to think I've taken to heart, "Don't go through life assuming that everybody else secretly wishes to be American."
So to edit and paraphrase my earlier post:
Glad you enjoyed yourself, Svarog. New York kicks ass. (Although, if you thought Baltimore was expensive...)
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Drive by posting.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted August 13, 2004 04:14 PM |
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Quote:
The reasons people get defensive when their country is criticized (and this is not exclusive to Americans, mind you), best I can tell is a couple of reasons 1. since they are part of that country, and in some small way make the country what it is, criticism of the country is often viewed as criticism of them and 2. since if they are lucky, they, consciously or not, made the decision to live in the that country and feel that their decision making is being mocked.
Bort, i would gladly hear you or anybody else mock my country. I do that everyday. If the critic is a good and fonded one, then wy not. Criticism is constructive.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted August 13, 2004 05:52 PM |
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No need to ask you for a play by play on your experiences, as I understand it the FBI was taping you the whole time , and once your actions are determined not to have been a threat to anyone but the aardvarks - those tapes will be released to the general public for all to see
I'm wondering how you felt people reacted to you? I'm not sure how best to phrase the question, but did you feel welcomed, did you feel people wanted to help you and answer your questions? Did people there take an interest in where you are from and ask questions about your country, or were the questions more like "how do you like our great country?"
I'm asking because even as a Canadian (we're just unarmed Americans with healthcare ) I'm often surprised at the reaction I've gotten from Americans.
an example would be when I was doing tech-support for Comcast (high speed internet in US) I had one customer ask me if I was saving money to move to the US when I told him I where I lived. When I told him no, he seemed baffled by it and told me he figured all Canadians dreamt of living in the US, lol
So yeah, I guess my question is how do you feel people responded to you?
edit.bump
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted August 15, 2004 03:06 AM |
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Quote:
So yeah, I guess my question is how do you feel people responded to you?
I guess I was lucky enough not to run into the type of Americans you mentioned. All the Americans I met were extremely friendly, kind, smiling and delighted to help about anything you ask them. As I said, they are polite alright, even annoyingly so.
They didn’t have that superior attitude, but then again, I cant be sure. Not all knew where Macedonia is, so they couldn’t even have any prejudices about a place they’ve hardly ever heard. “Is that near Ukraine?” one told me, after I told her it’s in Southeastern Europe. Not quite, but thanks for caring. Apart from this question they didn’t ask anything about my country. Except those college professors that we had dinner with, but they didn’t ask much either.
But what they all asked is how we liked USA. I don’t know the expectations they had, and I wouldn’t speculate, but they didn’t give me any clues about what they anticipate foreigners to think of their country.
Huh. Well there was that Ukraine woman that was surprised when we said we didn’t like US government and George Bush. She astonishingly opened her mouth and asked deeply surprised “WHY?!?!”. But nothing more than that.
Oh, and another case was when we were at a party, and one older man came to me and started a conversation with me (because I was wearing a Cuba Libre T-shirt and a Cuban barrette). He told me I resembled to Che Guevara in that outfit (lol), and we started a chat about Cuba and the time when he was in the military (he was an ex-marine), it was a nice chat. But after that my Serbian friend (who stayed at his hose) told me he didn’t like me at all. Political reasons or not, I don’t care. But why did he talk to someone he didn’t like?
and btw, pan, I thought u've never been to usa, and now you suddenly communicate with yankees that think canadians are wannabe americans. *confused*
Is it the power of wired communication or what?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted August 15, 2004 05:23 AM |
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That's right - it was telephone tech-help, they'd call a 1-800 number and get us Canadians to help them
Some people found it extremely frustrating that we were "stealing their jobs" but for the most part the callers were really nice, likely 'cuz i was fixing their computers
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted August 15, 2004 09:36 AM |
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"They Took Our Jobs!"
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted January 20, 2005 07:04 PM |
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Svarog, I just found this thread and read the whole thing. I thought your observations of the U.S. were a real stitch, man. Loved it. Much (like the lady swearing and collapsing behind the couch, then getting up and acting like Julia Childs) made me laugh out loud! Especially the bit about the food. I mean, I thought we had pretty good food, like our fruits and vegetables -- I had no idea!!! Makes me want to come to Macedonia to see what I'm missing!!!
Speaking of which, if you come over here again you HAVE to come to my house. I'll fix you a grilled steak (you do eat meat, right?) from a Monforte cow, or maybe a Buffalo steak. I have a smoker in my back yard (what's left of it after it blew over that one day when PH was here -- remember that, PH???? LOL!!!!) and grill the best steaks west of ths Mississippi.
As for some feeling insulted, well I think that's like a cultural gap thingie if you ask me. Your posts indicate Macedonia to be a much more frank culture than the U.S. -- it all goes back to the overly-polite thing that you observed by Americans. That's just cultural -- like I get the impression from your comments that Macedonian culture sees such things as regular interaction quite differently. I suppose if I come I will have to be on guard not to percieve people as being rude, because of the difference in our cultural "matrices" (good term).
Meet any Indians while you were here? I bet you wuld have gotten along famously with them...
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 21, 2005 04:54 AM |
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Oh, I'm sorry PC. I'm afraid the famous steaks west of Missisipi wont get days of glory in Macedonia, as I wont be able to spread the good word. U see, I have a rather nasty gastronomical nature, and my list of banned products includes most types of meat.
and no, i didnt get any Indians unfortunately. I was desperate to go on one such event for native american culture (probably loads of Indians there), but the stupid schedule messed up my plans. I'll meet you, so no worries. (I bet that sounded frightening )
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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