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| Thread: The game, and its future with its gamers. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 04, 2001 05:44 AM |
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sweeping?
Sha-man;
So this women you thought was actually capable of taming you? So did you tell her this? Pretty fascinating she probably found this eh?
Shae;
You are pretty full of confidence, how many poor hearts are left with only the dregs of your sublime self? You must have a huge house to offer enough rooms for all those weeping sweepers.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 04, 2001 12:44 PM |
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More sweeping...
Ichon...
Well I didn't tell the woman that he could tame me. That would take all the effort away from it anyway...You know sometimes words aren't needed in human communication. Bodyt language is essential.
Shae...
I'm already washing dishes and sweeping floors...that isn't really anything new to me. I'm pretty clean (for man) and I get remarks of being little, you know, wrongly oriented...But they are so wrong...
I think man is master of whole world woman "just" master of his house.
I just got cold chills...
Wonder why?
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 04, 2001 01:19 PM |
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Confidence
Ichon: Confidence is something that we all could do with, even somebody like you.
Sha: Nice to know that at least you know how to be a man and not an ape. No wonder women aren't able to domesticate you. You seem pretty self-domesticated already. 
*smile*
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 04, 2001 02:19 PM |
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Inspiring...
Now that I look these few later posts including my own here...I wonder why this thread has rating "inspiring".
Hmm...
Self Confidence is thing that could be seen as concentrating into himself and what he is doing. Some cases this can be negative thing as people view that one with confidence is too much concentrating into himself and tries to be above others. However it should be viewed as positive thing that when people has confidence he is concentrating what he is doing in every single moment. Of course over confidence can lead into issue where people aren't really anymore concentrating into reality but into illusions of ones self being.
Self confidence is important to all of us. Without it we are as one lost in sea without compass and maps. Without it and some luck one cannot never found steady ground to live his life in peace with himself and others.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 05, 2001 08:59 AM |
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Well...
Most people tell me I have an overlarge helping of confidence. My last girlfriend blamed that and my cynacism when she left...
I think confidence boarding on arrogance is healthy. I don't really respect those who don't respect themselves. If you want to get something done, you have to think it's possible to do.
Sha-man, good post there.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 06, 2001 01:56 PM |
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Big business
It's one of the prime reasons why I like the early, simple games of the 80's-90's era. Programmers were simple, truly creative people who were oriented on creating real legacies for people to play, not things like sequels and stuff. Back in the day when technology moved much slower, people were stuck with hardware specs that remain unchanged for years, and in some cases, more than a decade. Hence they had to use different methods to capture a gamer's attention. I remember some of the best games of all time had more gameplay than 90 percent of the games out on the shelves today (yes, you can call me nostalgic). And to be honest, the money involved in creating a game was not considered big business. These people did what they did for the LOVE of doing it. Now, with publishing houses and massive development teams, the gaming experience is a jaded thing for me. No longer do I see new genres popping up like I used to when I was a little brat. I see the same old money oriented stuff which is destroying the meaning of the word 'gameplay'. Someone said that it's time for a spy vs spy remake and I agree. Some of the old games were damned awesome and I could play them until the end of never. I really lament what those games with such awesome replayablity could have been like on today's machines.
Then again, maybe not.
*smile*
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 07, 2001 03:03 AM |
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Something to consider...
How many games are sold now compared to then? Probably about 20x as many at a guess. Sure most of it is trash, but there are plenty of good games, in fact more good games than I have time to play which never was true in the 80s or early 90s. One other thing, I guess you forgot the days when you had to spend at elast 4-5 hours after buying a game to get it to work. All those DOS configurations for each game, I had startup disks in piles, running memaker and QEMM every day it seemed. Having to buy a new video card just to get the damn game to work every few months, sound cards where each unique and worked only with certain games... it wasn't a golden age except for a few great games that were made.
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Chariotess
Hired Hero
Ancient Vampire
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posted August 07, 2001 10:46 AM |
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We have to understand that most of us were kids back then and almost any game looked playable. I remember playing alley cat and small games like that and I enjoyed them. I need more complexity now. Now the kids want action just like we did but now graphics are in high level so it takes a lot from gamecompany to produce anything. There are many games out there that left completely unnoticed. If you have visited Gamespot it had an article before that was something about best games you never played. If games aren't marketed enough or there isn't history behind the game like Ultima has there is chance that nobody notices the game. There are many games that are totally forgotten and gamecompanies go down. Pity is that many larger gamecompanies concentrate into teenagers and many times they just put nice graphics, some action and there it is, perfect game. Not for everyone but those future adults blasting the opponents heads with plasmaguns or slashing heads of with laserkatanas. Is that we want? I mean just slogans and games are empty otherwise.
I would like to see more firstpersonshooters in which you are free to move in some kind of city or world and trtying to solve mysteries with possible little action now and then. But because some easygoing games still sell and they might sell next twenty years we aren't going to see games with more originality. Some of the games of past were original as those designers couldn't program nice graphics because it was impossible. Now people are just playing games with graphics and some cool stuff and forgetting that games should have original ideas. Of course some Baldur's Gate is great game because it has nice graphics it has those Dungeon&Dragons rules and it's "roleplaying" game. But how many original ideas that game has really? It's hard to judge games because some games are just very well done like BG is but it doesn't really has anything original. Then there are games that has original ideas but aren't so well done. One of the games that has got some notice mainly because of its graphics but it's also has pretty innovative ideas is Sacrifice. I don't own the game because I don't have computer but that game could be in my buylist. Heroes has original idea but will they ruin it in the future? I just wish that Heroes4 would be stores right now so we could check does Heroes still kick some speed into you. Or is it as lame as some other those fantasygames.
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Progress is inevitable
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 07, 2001 12:09 PM |
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No computer?
Chariotess you don't own a computer? How are you posting here?
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Chariotess
Hired Hero
Ancient Vampire
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posted August 07, 2001 12:25 PM |
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Oops. I meant computer powerful enough. And I'm posting from Shamens place right now. I don't have internet connection in my own computer which is in my own apartment. No computer! Stupid me.
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Progress is inevitable
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 07, 2001 03:03 PM |
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Sacrifice
Yes, glad someone else here mentioned it- I have been playing that and H2 almost only games last two weeks. It is quite fun, some new ideas and actually very good looking game which deserves to look good.
Deus Ex, Thief, hmm... I was going to write a list of games that were fits person, but also let you wander and had some mystery, but you are right the list is short. There are a few good games though. One problem I think also is that when I was younger I had to figure out many puzzles for the first time and it took longer, now I recognize elements from earlier games in many of these and I can figure out the puzzles in only a few minutes, or else I am just smarter... lol I don't think so. I think the puzzles are also even easier and most weren't terribly difficult back then. MDK2 is probably the most difficult game I've played lately, not because of puzzles, but just the gameplay itself- it took me about 10 tries on a couple levels which has never happened before in any game for me.
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Chariotess
Hired Hero
Ancient Vampire
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posted August 07, 2001 03:26 PM |
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Looking glass has some really original games like System Shock, Strikeforce Alpha Centauri and Thief. And was Ultima Underworld theirs too? There is also Bullfrog and that Peter Molyneux or something that made some good games with unique ideas. Populous and that stuff. Black and White was just a toy. Yes graphics are nice but it's really repetitive. I like Sims, yes, I know it's toy but still it's different than many other. And I think it could evolve games that are more complex than now in market. That Gamespy list that was discussed also in that other board had games that were made really well but did all of them really have original idea? Many realtimestrategies and firstpersonshooters there. Civilization was only really star that shined to my eyes into that list along with some others. It's really strange if that is the view of gamecreators of some companies. I think gaming at the same time is building up size, coming up as big business as Shae said, increasing it effect to society but at the sametime games are coming more and more of the same way. Or is this just some phase that gamedesigners haven't yet learn to use all those new tools and resources they have to make games with also great originality? Maybe after few years we have more genres than now because I feel games are starting to be very much the same. Cool graphics but no ideas at all. I must mention Shamens name again because he wrote some message into thread about Masteroforion3 and there was kind of critic towards these new games. He tries to be ironic but I'm not sure does he hit target. What do you think?
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Progress is inevitable
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 07, 2001 08:50 PM |
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His long questions were attempt at irony?
Well, maybe he hit it once on the first try, but the rest was just not hacking it. There is too much of something. Do you think Civilization or Civ2 was the better game? Or we could go to Alpah Centaurai and all the newer ones, but perhaps because I played Civ2 the most it seems the most classic, I remember playing Civ, but for some reason I wasn't as excited by it as Civ2.
I think many games take what works well with other games and integrate it, or attempt to, the problem is they steal from other genre's which in itself is no large problem since some things it's a really good idea to try that with. The problem is people are afraid to try new things in most games in case it fails, I don't think it's the game designeers always, it's the publishers. If they have one game that fails... when each publishers only releases perhaps 4 games a year, there are stockholders and boards to answer to. Some games have tried new things and succeeded, and made some money, but so far none made enough money to justify the possability of failure which definately loses alot of money. Of course for us gamers we'll say damn the risk and gice us something good! If you notice many of the innovative news game recently are from smaller newer publishers who had designers with a dream. That seems to be what it takes these days.
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Chariotess
Hired Hero
Ancient Vampire
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posted August 08, 2001 12:57 AM |
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I agree that those publishers are the problem. But what I said about designers was that do you think that list of 50 best of gaming by gamespy was really good? They had some designers there to decide which were the best and I think they are on wrong tracks if even designers start to make choices of games just too be good enough to be succesful and not really great. I played more Civ2 but that was just because I really didn't find Civ before just Civ2 arrived. Original civilization had it first that idea but in Civ2 it was just better done. That kind of games I just meant. And I think Civilization2 was also success so it isn't really about that. I think it just easier to make game with old ideas but good graphics and sell it to crowd as new revolutionary game than make something completely new. It's hard to of course do anything really "new" as everything is almost seen but at least designers could learn from earlier games. If you have played realtimestrategy Kohan it is little bit different than other from the same genre and that kind of games I would like to see in the future. I think games that has innovative ideas could sell if they are just done and marketed right way. It needs huge amount of patience from the publisher because risk is higher but I think payback is much larger than in "normal" games. I would like to see customers voting with their money what kind of games should be produced but our words fall into empty ears if everybody just keep buying that cheap crap. It is also hard to find really good game because many of those gaming magazines give high points to popular games only and many times don't have courage to try to change peoples opinion. Hype is much more bigger part that affects customers view of game than the originality of game. Did you say that after ten years or so people know more about games and gaming is also more popular in older groups so games must develop and they won't be so simple as they are now? If you said it I think you're right. Where is the money, games will go there too.
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Progress is inevitable
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 08, 2001 01:23 AM |
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Well-
About the top 50 list from Gamespot, that is also business- who advertises most on their site? Game publishers, so naturally the best games are mostly the ones which sold the most titles, intestingly enough it was mostly newer games also. I think much advertising is on the premise of people having short memories, so all the best games were from recent years. I don't know if the criteria of new ideas and interfaces is the needed criteria for a best game however, Personally I look back on the 'best' games as those I still go back and play or the games that might not have been first with an idea, but ones that displayed it best, so when I see that idea used in other games I recognize the clearest anscestor of it in the game I enjoyed most rather than the game that had that idea first.
How about Majesty? A game much more popular in Europe, but how many new ideas? None really, but still well designed and very fun to play. Kohan I have never played... maybe someday, but as I mentioned there are too many games to even try to play nowdays.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 12, 2001 02:34 AM |
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What is important for me...
Are two things that are hard to explain and they are above everything when I think about great games. HoMM has gave me kinda at least the first reason to play it.
1. It feels like you have to play just one more turn or little bit longer then I stop. At least you assure yourself about this reality is different (You keep playing little longer).
2. It feels like you are part of world you're playing in. Like in HoMM you feel like you have stepped into time of knights and sorceress another time and place. Another dimension which creates entirely new view of world.
Usually when I found both of these things from game I really love it. These are games like Betrayl at Krondor, Ultima Underworld and Civilization. Game can be good even without these but somehow I have started to know which are my kind of games just when I see picture of game or see it in action for about few seconds. That is so simple. It is very personal what kind of games interest me and which kind of games I think are great. However I must admit that even some games that aren't my favorite are thought to be topclass or revolutionary like Doom. However these games are much harder to see from all others as there are so many games published and many so similar to one another.
I like much more turnbased as I'm very calm person and despite I like action once and while I find much more relaxing playing game that doesn't need to be checked all the time what is happening but thinking what to do this turn. I play pretty slowly games as I use lot of time thinking different possibilities but now I'm concerned that future games won't be my cup of tea. That critic that was made to look like irony to MoO3 thread was about my view how gaming has become.
Let's take Baldur's Gate as example. I think it's good game but don't really like because I feel better crpg games can be done. I always feel there is something to make better only few games are beyond this and Betrayl at Krondor is one of these. "Perfect" games are of course peoples own views but somehow I nowadays feel that many games are left to unfinished or aren't polished enough to be true classics as some oldies were. Am I nostalgic nature? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that gaming has changed and I'm not sure is this the right direction.
I would really like to see Civilization 3 to start kind of new way of doing remakes of oldgames and maybe it would inspire also others to make more original games than most are now.
And BTW Sacrifice is really original game in my view. However I think it could be much more tactical and I must say I have started to wait Sacrifice 2 already.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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