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| Thread: Philosophy question over a glass of beer anyone? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Leo_Lion
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Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted December 03, 2004 09:33 AM |
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Uhh...thanks, Shirastro, I think?!
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Leo Lion thats the best example of table philosophy i've ever read.
If you meant that as a compliment, then thank you!  But, I have never heard of "table philosophy" so it's somewhat lost on me...please explain! And please do it...very...slowly...as I am having trouble handling all of my beer. 
*Who's leg do I have to hump around here to get some nachos, chicken wings, or garlic bread?* 
Shiva, Khayman, & Svarog, I like your points of view on this discussion and find that they support my philosophy in it's purest form. It's sometimes nice, however, to hear the same thing from someone else presented in a different way...regardless if that's what you meant to do or not...tehehe!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 03, 2004 03:25 PM |
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Shiva, Khayman, & Svarog, I like your points of view on this discussion and find that they support my philosophy in it's purest form. It's sometimes nice, however, to hear the same thing from someone else presented in a different way...regardless if that's what you meant to do or not...tehehe!
Here we go Leo. Why is it your philosophy? These are just idea's you adopted after reading a few books. Rather than say "you support my philosophy in its purest form" meaning "I'm right", why not just leave it at "I appreciate what you guy's said".
Why do I bring this up? Because there is no owner of knowledge. To say "my philosophy" means you have created another religion, this time the religion of Leo that can now oppose all the other religions that exist, and can assume it is the only one who knows the truth. Even if you say I believe in the oneness of all things, and include the thinking of all, that is still a concept.
The point is, who is behind these statements. I do agree on what you say, mostly  , but who are you that is saying this? If your ego has adopted these thoughts and presumed ownership, then you have taken one small step and need to keep walking, for there is nothing to own at all, just something to be part of.
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Thoughts, feelings, matter, & energy are the only things that exist...PERIOD! If you don't believe me, think about it long and hard (Don't stay asleep at the wheel ) and if you are still unsure, put aside every one of your preconceived ideas & opinions and also everything that you have ever learned; then, ask YOURSELF if what I say is true (Introquestion)
To say only these things exist leads me to ask you what you think the soul is? Every aspect of those 4 things is part of observable phenomena. What is unseen, unheard and unknowable is where the soul exists, the soul that is just a spark of that infinite spirit that is the force underlying all of creation. Yes, all beings carry a spark of that infinite, meaning they are that spirit them selves at their true core. If you exclude this from your explanation of what we are, then you perhaps have missed the most important part .
Finally, keep up the good work, Leo, I like to hear to it. And thanks Conan, for creating such a thread..
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2004 04:02 PM |
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My pleasure Shiva!
I've always liked philosophy. Especially table philosophy since we can share a beer and the discussion has no limits or structure.
What another beer? D'OH! The pitcher is empty.
*signals the waiter...
Svarog, I understand what you mean when you say alternate dimensions as in more than 3 dimensions, but my mind has a hard time with conceiving it. For example, yes the world as a soccer ball was interesting, but does anyone have an example of a 5th dimension or 24 of 'em? And about the ball, if we where 2D flat worms, would the world not end when we walk straight in one direction and hit the interior wall of the ball? I don't understand your example. In space, if we travel one way, we will never hit a "Wall" or end. As a 2D worm in a soccer ball, we would.
It's funny though, that you consider yourself a materialist and you have said before that you do not beleive in anything God-like or even spiritual, yet you speak of God in your post and seem to attribute some divine creation of reality as we know it. Or am I mistaken you for someone else? If so, sorry.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted December 04, 2004 12:37 AM |
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For example, yes the world as a soccer ball was interesting, but does anyone have an example of a 5th dimension or 24 of 'em?
Scientists dealing with Special Theory of Relativity, and such phenomena as black holes etc, have proposed such hyptheses. Its not proven firmly of course, but they offer some theoretical explainations. I havent read any of them, only the fact that such hypotheses have been proposed.
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And about the ball, if we where 2D flat worms, would the world not end when we walk straight in one direction and hit the interior wall of the ball? I don't understand your example. In space, if we travel one way, we will never hit a "Wall" or end. As a 2D worm in a soccer ball, we would.
Not inside a soccer ball, but on its surface. Sorry if I wasnt clear enough. That way our senses would have been evolved only to percept the two dimensions that define the ball's surface, and the ball would seem endless (esp if it was a huge ball).
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It's funny though, that you consider yourself a materialist and you have said before that you do not beleive in anything God-like or even spiritual, yet you speak of God in your post and seem to attribute some divine creation of reality as we know it.
I dont. I just offered the three approaches to the point of discussion here. I myself, take the empirical approach (no God involved).
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted December 04, 2004 01:23 AM |
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First the easy stuff, then the hard stuff..
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In space, if we travel one way, we will never hit a "Wall" or end.
To support this argument, I read in Scientific American that our universe is flat & in the shape of a balloon/soccer ball (including the void in the middle). It seems that if you go in one direction long enough, you will eventually return to the point where you began. Sort of like if you flew around the world in a straight line, without there being anything inside of the earth itself.
Shiva...Ouch!  I'll just start off by saying that when I said "my philosophy" it was meant to express "the philosophy that I believe & live by". I did not intend to claim ownership of the idea, as I 'm sure I'm not the first to think about it. I will, however, use a few of your own words against you in order to prove how my philosophy is in fact owned by me (Just for sport )
If I follow your argument that everyone has a subjective perspective of EVERYTHING or of the universe and combine it with the theory of INFINITE; then wouldn't the philosophy that I believe & live by, be considered my own?! Even if this philosophy was clearly written down, wouldn't my unique experiences alter my "interpretation" of this philosophy to the point where it would be unique to me?! Ah-Ha!
Come to think of it though, I rather like the idea of having my own religion! LEOLIGISM...Hahaha! I would need someone else to be the POPE though because I would already be the CARDINAL. (As in my name, Léo Cardinal) *cheezy, I know*
When I said that thoughts, feelings, matter, & energy are the only things that exist...PERIOD, that was just like saying that all INFINITE amounts of these things put together equals EVERYTHING. And since the Soul is essentially the same thing as EVERYTHING, but in a different package; than it is safe to say that the Soul is basically a combination of an INFINTE amount of thoughts, feelings, matter, & energy.
I also thought I had explained how the Soul is a part of all things Created by EVERYTHING in my example of grass?! Maybe you've smoked a little too much of it, Shiva! LOL Just joking, you're pretty smart!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 04, 2004 03:47 PM |
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Edited By: Shiva on 4 Dec 2004
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Shiva...Ouch! I'll just start off by saying that when I said "my philosophy" it was meant to express "the philosophy that I believe & live by". I did not intend to claim ownership of the idea, as I 'm sure I'm not the first to think about it. I will, however, use a few of your own words against you in order to prove how my philosophy is in fact owned by me (Just for sport )
If I follow your argument that everyone has a subjective perspective of EVERYTHING or of the universe and combine it with the theory of INFINITE; then wouldn't the philosophy that I believe & live by, be considered my own?! Even if this philosophy was clearly written down, wouldn't my unique experiences alter my "interpretation" of this philosophy to the point where it would be unique to me?! Ah-Ha!
Yes, its just for sport. Healthy debate is good. And yes, everything appears to be subjective, but the game is to strive for the objective. Adopting ideas as our own is what happens at first, but the problem there is they are just ideas. To really make it our own, we must find the source of these ideas. which leads to the next..
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When I said that thoughts, feelings, matter, & energy are the only things that exist...PERIOD, that was just like saying that all INFINITE amounts of these things put together equals EVERYTHING. And since the Soul is essentially the same thing as EVERYTHING, but in a different package; than it is safe to say that the Soul is basically a combination of an INFINTE amount of thoughts, feelings, matter, & energy.
If you say the soul is an infinite combination of thoughts, emotions etc. that implies it is comprised of the sum total of the experiences that have occured for each individual. The soul itself is in a way a reflection of the infinite, out of which all this emanates. I say a reflection because somehow the infinite is stepped down into finite form to become knowable, and the soul is the intermediary that makes this possible. Essentially, it is that conciousness which allows self conciousness. Thus, you can say these thoughts are mine, but by saying that you are forgetting where all this comes from.
The meditation I practice involves trying to recognize and remember this infinite source. It may be hard to do, but when the mind becomes still and the thoughts subside, a glimmer of the infinite appears. Therefore, I dont equate my soul with thoughts or feelings, but with the source from which these things appear.
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I also thought I had explained how the Soul is a part of all things Created by EVERYTHING in my example of grass?! Maybe you've smoked a little too much of it, Shiva! LOL Just joking, you're pretty smart!
There we go, part of everything, but also everything. If you take a piece of the infinite, it remains infinite. ..
Smoke? Haven't even had a beer
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted December 06, 2004 05:41 AM |
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Let the "Centurion" competition begin...
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Adopting ideas as our own is what happens at first, but the problem there is they are just ideas. To really make it our own, we must find the source of these ideas.
Thus, you can say these thoughts are mine, but by saying that you are forgetting where all this comes from.
Ahhhh...How true! I had not remembered the truth in the words I expressed earlier, until you reminded me of it through your Post, Shiva! Thoughts & ideas are no more mine than they are everone's, even when I initiate them in my own Mind. And as you say, the reason for that is because all Thoughts are a part of EVERYTHING and we are all a part of EVERYTHING, with a window (our Soul) into IT! Therefore, any Thought or idea that we have at any given time already exists in everyone else through their Soul. Thanks for the reminder!
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The meditation I practice involves trying to recognize and remember this infinite source. It may be hard to do, but when the mind becomes still and the thoughts subside, a glimmer of the infinite appears.
Shiver me timbers, Shiva! That's straight out of the Celestine Prophecy! You must have read it...right?!
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Smoke? Haven't even had a beer
Conan!!! Are you so drunk that you forgot to get this person a drink?! Shame on you....hiccup...
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 06, 2004 03:16 PM |
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Shiver me timbers, Shiva! That's straight out of the Celestine Prophecy! You must have read it...right?!
Actually, no I haven't, but I probably read the same books that the author read that allowed him to write it. In particular Patanjali, an ancient Hindu text that is well known for its description of Yoga as a science. Disciplining the mind is a basic part of any form of meditation.
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moonshie
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 06, 2004 08:58 PM |
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Heaven, Hell, or Nothing
i don't know if u would consider this a philisophical or a riligeous question, but ive wondered about this, is there a heaven or hell when die or do our spirits move to a new life,
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LIFE IS SHORT SO LIVE WITH IT
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Flint_Firefo...
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 07, 2004 05:07 AM |
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i don't know if u would consider this a philisophical or a riligeous question, but ive wondered about this, is there a heaven or hell when die or do our spirits move to a new life,
this quote is supposed to read i don't know if u would consider this a philisophical or a religious question, but ive wondered about this, is there a heaven or hell when we die or do our spirits move to a new life as a different creature with a new personality and our old 1 is forgotten, or are we reincarnated.
PS Moonshie is no longer a member of the Heroes Community.
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LIFE IS SHORT SO LIVE WITH IT
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 07, 2004 04:36 PM |
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this quote is supposed to read i don't know if u would consider this a philisophical or a religious question, but ive wondered about this, is there a heaven or hell when we die or do our spirits move to a new life as a different creature with a new personality and our old 1 is forgotten, or are we reincarnated.
PS Moonshie is no longer a member of the Heroes Community.
I don't talk about what I don't know. Speculation on what happens after death belongs in that category. What I do know is heaven and hell exist in this life, depending on whether you are suffering or not. One definition of bliss is the absence of pain. Remove your pain and suffering and a sense of well-being appears.
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Flint_Firefo...
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 07, 2004 09:01 PM |
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heaven or hell is there really a lucifer or is it just a cover up for the pist off side of god, cause every1 thinks god is the all mighty one of good.
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LIFE IS SHORT SO LIVE WITH IT
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted December 08, 2004 05:54 AM |
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Looks like we're gonna need more beer...
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is there a heaven or hell when we die or do our spirits move to a new life as a different creature with a new personality and our old 1 is forgotten, or are we reincarnated.
There is no heaven or hell when we die. After our Body & Mind die, our Spirit returns to its natural state of existence, which is as a fully functioning part of EVERYTHING. It then begins by reviewing the experiences it had throughout our lifetime, and from there, is able to understand more about itself and consequently, more about EVERYTHING.
After this review is complete and the Soul has used its experiences to expand its understanding, it can choose to return to our reality as whatever it may wish to be (human, animal, object, etc). It might, however, choose to interact with other Souls in order to share experiences between one another. So, to answer you question Flint; your Spirit IS you personality! Our lives, here on Earth, are nothing but sabaticals for our Souls. When your Soul decided to live inside of your Body, with your Mind, it pretty much went to sleep. And unless you do something in this lifetime to awaken it, you will have missed a glorious opportunity to truly experience & understand "what" & "who" your Soul/EVERYTHING is!!! Don't fall asleep at the wheel! Although, it's true your Soul might help your Mind & Body shape who you become, it would only do so in hope of eventually being awakened and never would it actually do all of the work for you.
In other words, when your current Body & Mind will die, your Soul will be awakened & released, and you will return to being who you naturally are, but with new experiences from your past life. ***Have you ever heard of people seeing a bright light at the end of a tunnel or seeing white & golden Angels when they die or have a "near-death experience"? Or have you heard of how they describe feeling a complete sense of well-being, peace, & Absolute Love?*** This is what EVERYTHING is and this is what our Souls give up every time they choose to enter our reality! They sacrifice existing in happiness, joy, truth, peace, and love (as a part of EVERYTHING) because they do not truly "understand" what those things are. And in order to better "understand" them, your Soul will often seek to "experience" them directly or throught their Opposites.
I can elaborate on this if anyone wishes...I just don't want to be boring anyone out of their drunken skulls!
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PS Moonshie is no longer a member of the Heroes Community.
Flint, why did you create a new user? I noticed your email was the same for both profiles, but don't "understand" why you switched.
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Flint_Firefo...
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 08, 2004 03:07 PM |
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PS Moonshie is no longer a member of the Heroes Community.
Flint, why did you create a new user? I noticed your email was the same for both profiles, but don't "understand" why you switched.
it would not accept the password correctly so i said snow it & created a new user.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 08, 2004 11:59 PM |
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*grabs another pitcher.
Here you go Léo.
I agree with you on this one Léo, and I actually understand what you mean now by EVERYTHING. Basically you are just giving it a name, that witch we are all part of.
Question: Do you consider yourself to beleive this or to know this?
I beleive in everything I write, but I know very little aboutit, except maybe the energy we are made of. Philosophical questions and discussions are very seldom things we have experienced, but more things that we have read or thought up ourselves. Would you agree?
On the question of hell or heaven. I would tend to explain it like Léo did, but in different terms. I don't BELEIVE in either, but more that the experiences and the spiritual advancements that we have made in this life carry over to the next existance. We may wish to "wait" as Léo put it, and ineract with other "souls" as you call them, I would better qualify them as energy. In any case, it's all the same.
In any case, I'm very happy how this thread has evolved.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted December 09, 2004 12:02 AM |
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Modhat
New username or not, Moonshie i.e - you, were warned about not swearing.
Just because the auto censor puts **** doesn't mean you won't get penalised.
Is it such an effort to hold down shift and 8 at the same time?
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted December 09, 2004 01:08 AM |
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There is no heaven or hell when we die. After our Body & Mind die, our Spirit returns to its natural state of existence, which is as a fully functioning part of EVERYTHING. It then begins by reviewing the experiences it had throughout our lifetime, and from there, is able to understand more about itself and consequently, more about EVERYTHING.
Just curious. How can you know there’s no heaven and hell? (I suppose it’s the lack of proofs) And at the same time, you’re sure that the Soul (a self-conscious entity, from what you wrote) follows a transcedental path to the EVERYTHING. To me, those two concepts are just two of the many different faces a bubble of empty beliefs has. If it’s a matter of faith (and therefore a personal choice), I’ll withdraw, but I don’t want to hear you claiming there are objective indications which point to your truth.
In the end, faith, into sometheing… something that was picked up from some book, written by a man. Good luck.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted December 10, 2004 07:05 AM |
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Thanks for the top-up...chug-a-lug!
Do you consider yourself to beleive this or to know this?
Svarog & Conan, I believe in what I have written so far on this subject and am certain to "know" all of these things as well, because I have confirmed it through Introspection with my Soul. I am, however, constantly seeking to better "understand" them. I have no self-doubts regarding the things I have expressed to you all, either, but I am not ruling out possible misinterpretations. Following this idea, I am willing to re-explain anything that might seem unclear, vague, or stupid!
I beleive in everything I write, but I know very little about it, except maybe the energy we are made of. Philosophical questions and discussions are very seldom things we have experienced, but more things that we have read or thought up ourselves. Would you agree?
Well, I would say that you do "know" everything about what you write because it is available to you through your Soul. On the other hand, I would have to agree with you that there is always a need for more "experience/understanding" in these matters. If ever you are unsure if something you are reading is true, whether it’s a world-renowned book or one of my own messages, just practise Introspection and your Soul will confirm its truthfulness.
How can you know there’s no heaven and hell? And at the same time, you’re sure that the Soul follows a transcendental path to the EVERYTHING.
I "know", just as you can Svarog, that there is no heaven or hell that truly exists in the mythical sense that many of us have been exposed to, because I asked myself that question many times and through Introspection listened to my Soul answer that they do not. Once you begin to "understand" the nature of Spirituality through experience, in contrast to the elements of Religion for example, it becomes easier to identify truth, love, joy, & their Infinite source…EVERYTHING.
Through this process, it becomes evident that you do not need others or stimulants to "raise your Spirits", but that the greatest source for Spiritual energy comes from EVERYTHING ITSELF. And the only way to communicate with EVERYTHING, is through your Soul! Now, you might say that meditation allows you to do the same thing with your Mind, but consider that every time you hear of someone meditating, they always start by "clearing their Mind". They are essentially shutting it down in order to utilize their Soul…
I don’t want to hear you claiming there are objective indications which point to your truth. In the end, faith, into sometheing… something that was picked up from some book, written by a man.
Svarog, I don’t understand your objection to my "claims" (as you call them) regarding objective indications to my truth. Please elaborate this for me, thanks. I’m not sure if this is relevant, however, but I do not believe "my" messages to be only "my" truth, but everyone’s truth!
As for the book issue, Svarog, maybe you forgot that the things that I read or am reading (and that lead me to most of these ideas) were written by men or women, who have the same kind of Soul that we all do. People like Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, Deepak Chopra, Mahatma Ghandi, Confucius, the Dalai Lama, Jesus, etc.
P.S. I know we shouldn't mix, but...Shots anyone??? Oh! and Asmodean, are you going to be wearing that ModHat all night? I think you forgot to take it off, buddy!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2004 03:11 PM |
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hmmmmm.... yes, I agree if you say it is "your truth".
But the Truth, I firmly beleive will never be known.
But in any case, I do not beleive that it is knowing the Truth that is important, it is the effort to understand it. Indeed, I find that sometimes in life, what you learn from the trip far outweights the goal itself. It's not where you finally got, but how much you learned by getting there. It's not the end result that is important, but the fight that you made. In essence, if you practice this, failure is never possible as if you have tried, you have already succeded.
That's the hole reason why I like this thread. That and also because of all the nice inputs I got from you guys. It would have been pretty darn boring drinking by myself and not even beeing able to watch NHL hockey...
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted December 11, 2004 07:39 AM |
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My stomach is rumbling! I never did get those wings!
I agree if you say it is "your truth".
Are we going to have to Agree to Disagree here Conan?! Because I said that my messages are not only my truth, but everyone's.
I find that sometimes in life, what you learn from the trip far outweights the goal itself. If you practice this, failure is never possible as if you have tried, you have already succeded.
Conan, although you sort of "overkilled" us with your multiple examples I have to agree with you on this. "You are better to have tried & failed or loved and lost, than to have never tried or loved at all!" That is the whole purpose of our existence! The Meaning of Life is to Experience things so that our Soul can learn/understand from it. Now the question is: "Will you wait until your Body & Mind die to give your Soul this opportunity OR will you make an effort to awaken your Soul NOW, so that it can start understanding more NOW?"
This is also the fundamental difference between all life! Humans have the ability to use their Mind, Body, & Soul to understand more about EVERYTHING while they are alive, than...let's say...a rock.
On another note, whether you are a Police Officer, Banker, Criminal, or Priest your Soul can learn from your unique experiences. In addition, being who you are and doing what you do also helps other people's Soul understand more about EVERYTHING by giving them a point of comparison. “You can learn as much from something's opposite as you can learn from the thing itself.”
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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