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TheDeath
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posted November 02, 2008 06:40 PM |
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From the Getting Started guide:Quote:
What is ambassador status?
Ambassador Status is the main game upgrade that you can purchase with Jennifers. It automatically puts a special icon by your Nation name throughout the game for 30 days so that everyone knows you're an NS Ambassador.
So it's not free anymore to put a custom flag? This sucks 
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Darkshadow
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posted November 02, 2008 06:42 PM |
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Quote:
Jennifers.
And wtf are those?(Btw, that name is hard overused in NS  )
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So it's not free anymore to put a custom flag? This sucks
If what I heard is right, it is only temporarily and custom flags will be free once they got the game steadily running.
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mvassilev
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posted November 02, 2008 06:43 PM |
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Lexxan:
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Then stop the Wars and the whining will stop as well lol
These aren't even quote wars! They're just minor quote skirmishes. If you want to see real quote wars, look at Abortion or IGUOBIG. You have nothing to complain about.
TheDeath:
No, I mean that I personally am Lawful or True Neutral (according to the test you posted in some thread), but you say that my country is Chaotic Neutral. How does that work - a Lawful Neutral ruler of a Chaotic Neutral country.
And I wouldn't say that "anti-government hour" is a sign of Chaos. I'd say it's more of a sign of permissiveness. If it was Chaos, then it'd be broken up by random protesters, and the government wouldn't do anything about it.
If a country only has a few laws, that doesn't mean that it's Chaotic. It only becomes Chaotic when it doesn't have any laws or if it doesn't enforce them.
In fact, help me compile this list of alignments and governments.
Lawful Good = ???
Neutral Good = ???
Chaotic Good = ???
Lawful Neutral = Laws are strictly enforced, but are mostly around to protect people from each other.
True Neutral = ???
Chaotic Neutral = Undirected anarchy.
Lawful Evil = Authoritarian government that follows its own rules or oppressive theocracy that is an actual theocracy (that is, the leaders practice what they preach).
Neutral Evil = Typical dictatorship.
Chaotic Evil = Violent anarchy that seeks to destroy as much as possible.
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DagothGares
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posted November 02, 2008 06:45 PM |
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I think you can become ambassador for free, if you participate thoroughly for a long time, but that could be wishful thinking  basically I have bnothing against a good waaagh!!!, but if some hippie peace loving alliance decides to pose their values on Empiriana I'd get pretty steamed. Or if they'd mess up Meriath's nuanciated polacy for that matter 
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DagothGares
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posted November 02, 2008 06:46 PM |
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Quote:
Lawful Good = ??? Empiriana
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TheDeath
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posted November 02, 2008 06:48 PM |
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mvass, well not "pure" Chaotic Neutral but it's more than True Neutral (I mean closer to Chaotic). And an anti-government hour is very Chaotic. Lawful tend to be authoritarian, though the outcome is dependent on "good" or "evil". That is, Lawful good is a sort of "good dictatorship" (what I'm trying to make ), not having necessarily freedom, though sometimes it does since it cares about the people. Lawful Evil is the sort of country Stalin ruled (not nazi). Chaotic Evil or Neutral Evil is more like Hitler, but I'm not very sure.
True Neutral balances the need of the state with those of the people. Lawful Neutral cares more about the state, but doesn't do so at the expense of the people. Chaotic Neutral doesn't even want a state (like yours, which is why there is an anti-government hour at the radio)
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TheDeath
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posted November 02, 2008 06:51 PM |
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Quote:
I think you can become ambassador for free, if you participate thoroughly for a long time, but that could be wishful thinking basically I have bnothing against a good waaagh!!!, but if some hippie peace loving alliance decides to pose their values on Empiriana I'd get pretty steamed. Or if they'd mess up Meriath's nuanciated polacy for that matter
What do you mean with "a peace loving alliance decides to pose their values"? Impose what? But if the "external world" (that is not HC) can get and affect my nation without my consent, then the game is fail for me. I don't want to be bothered from outsiders in this game, and it says that to create a "Private World" you need to be ambassador, how surprising 
And I think you'll need to pay, since it says "renew the Ambassador status after 30 days" which I assume you need to pay a monthly fee, bleh. It turns exactly into the kind of games (MMOs) that I despise
BTW Dagoth, Empiriana is Lawful Neutral towards Evil
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DagothGares
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posted November 02, 2008 06:53 PM |
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ow, come one, I care about my economy and the good of my nation and about GOD(thismakes my nation good ).
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TheDeath
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posted November 02, 2008 07:07 PM |
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Well if you care about the people (after all God wants you to care about your people) then you aren't evil at all, but I thought Empiriana was different sorry.
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mvassilev
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posted November 02, 2008 07:08 PM |
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TheDeath:
An anti-government hour isn't a Chaotic tendency, it's a freedom tendency. There's a difference between chaos and freedom. A Lawful state can still have a great amount of freedom.
It's difficult to imagine any kind of Good government, whether Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic. How does a Good government work? Does the D&D idea of good not depend on altruism? But how can a government be altruistic?
I'd say that Stalin was more of a Neutral Evil ruler, while Hitler was Lawful Evil. I can't really think of any examples of Chaotic Evil.
And what are "needs of the state"? But I agree that Chaotic Neutral doesn't want a state, that's why Mvassland isn't Chaotic Neutral.
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DagothGares
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posted November 02, 2008 07:09 PM |
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well, I have the medieval style catholic church in mind, when i created Empiriana, so you guessed about right. i just pointed out that good and evil is relative.
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mvassilev
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posted November 02, 2008 07:12 PM |
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Quote:
i just pointed out that good and evil is relative.
Don't get TheDeath started.
HERE HE COMES! HIDE!
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TheDeath
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posted November 02, 2008 07:14 PM |
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Quote:
An anti-government hour isn't a Chaotic tendency, it's a freedom tendency. There's a difference between chaos and freedom. A Lawful state can still have a great amount of freedom.
Chaotic = freedom. At least in politics
Quote:
It's difficult to imagine any kind of Good government, whether Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic. How does a Good government work? Does the D&D idea of good not depend on altruism? But how can a government be altruistic?
Simple. If it helps people but doesn't do so to the ones who are bad, or who want to corrupt it. Absolute freedom is not always good, because it depends on the people (by that definition for example, absolute freedom would allow murder!). See, it does stop people who murder. It can do that for several reasons, which decide what kind of government is. If it does that "because it's more profitable to the state" then it's most certainly NOT GOOD (but not necessarily evil either!). If it does it because it wants "the citizens to be safe" and "the filth to be disposed of" (that is the criminals) then it's mostly good, though whether it's vengeful against them or not depends on Lawful-Chaotic obviously.
Quote:
And what are "needs of the state"?
Every needs of the state. Everything the ruler wants for "the state". When someone says "America is xxx" or "Empiriana is xxx" that is the need of the 'state' so to speak. Military, police, politics, just about anything not in "individual" or personal lives, you know?
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Asheera
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posted November 02, 2008 07:18 PM |
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A monthly fee? Forget it. If I'm crazy enough to pay a monthly fee, at least I'd go and play a MMORPG and not this simple game.
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mvassilev
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posted November 02, 2008 07:23 PM |
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Quote:
Absolute freedom is not always good, because it depends on the people (by that definition for example, absolute freedom would allow murder!).
But to maximize freedom, murder would be illegal, since murder itself is a violation of freedom.
Quote:
If it does it because it wants "the citizens to be safe" and "the filth to be disposed of" (that is the criminals) then it's mostly good, though whether it's vengeful against them or not depends on Lawful-Chaotic obviously.
Seeing as how your country isn't a democracy, this is somewhat of an irrelevant question, but what if the people use the government to create a police force? Then the people are using the government to protect themselves. When the government is a reflection of the desires of the people, then what's that? Good, Neutral, or Evil? If some supreme dictator is making resources come out of nowhere and is using them to protect their citizens, then I see how a nation could be good. But a government can only get resources from its own citizens (through taxation), so it's basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. And while Paul may be happy about that, Peter certainly isn't. A government can't be altruistic because it doesn't have anything to give away that isn't taken from somebody else.
For example, if a thief robs a museum, sells the stuff, and then distributes the money to random people, is he Good, Neutral, or Evil? I would say that he's evil, because his good action was only made possible by an evil action. (Although, of course, he's not as evil as if he'd kept the money.)
Quote:
Military, police, politics, just about anything not in "individual" or personal lives, you know?
But, in democracies, do these things not exist solely for the needs of the people?
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TheDeath
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posted November 02, 2008 07:26 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:28, 02 Nov 2008.
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Democracy is basically a alignment-free system because it can choose what kind of alignment you want. And besides, if 90% of the people are evil then the government elected will also be.
Besides mvass, I was talking about dictatorship governments.
Quote:
For example, if a thief robs a museum, sells the stuff, and then distributes the money to random people, is he Good, Neutral, or Evil? I would say that he's evil, because his good action was only made possible by an evil action. (Although, of course, he's not as evil as if he'd kept the money.)
It depends on the situation, but as a side note, remember that Robin Hood is considered Chaotic Good (at least with that alignment system). Of course you can classify him different but then you'll have to make up your own system 
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mvassilev
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posted November 02, 2008 07:32 PM |
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Quote:
Besides mvass, I was talking about dictatorship governments.
Dictatorship governments, even the most benevolent ones, are tilted towards Evil because they take from the people and don't do what the people want in return.
Quote:
remember that Robin Hood is considered Chaotic Good
The situation with Robin Hood was more complicated, since he stole from people who also stole. So he's hard to classify, at least for me.
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DagothGares
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posted November 02, 2008 07:36 PM |
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actually D&D takes Robin Hood as the standard of chaotic good...
Robber barons are lawful evil
crusaders are lawful good... but the D&D system takes place in an entirely different universe, so it's hard to make an analogy with this one.
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TheDeath
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posted November 02, 2008 07:37 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:38, 02 Nov 2008.
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Quote:
Dictatorship governments, even the most benevolent ones, are tilted towards Evil because they take from the people and don't do what the people want in return.
It depends on the people. You see, if the people want to enslave the black people, a "good" dictatorship would prohibit that. Or if the people want other bad things, a "good" dictatorship would prohibit that. Of course a good dictatorship doesn't get in the way of good people, so to speak.
EDIT: and such black people are NOT in that state, obviously, so they don't vote etc... (like nazis used to think)
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JapanGamer
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posted November 02, 2008 07:42 PM |
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Very nice I hope for NS2 soon.
The Issue
Political surveys disclose dissatisfaction among the mafia about legal influence and tax impositions through out The Celfious.
The Debate
1. "Do you know how much of my year's work goes to the government?" demanded angry mafia cohort Larry Licorish. "Too much! Government taxing has gotten way out of control. It needs big cuts in the black market. These bar codes are enough to keep things legal but the black market will never leave. Leave those subsidies to business alone. We need them for ourselves to create mafia jobs."
This is the position your government is preparing to adopt.
2. "It's not the AMOUNT of tax on the mafia, it's where their body falls," says Lead Activist Sue-Ann Frederickson. "And at the moment, far too much of the burden is falling to the media. People on high suspicion levels need to be "taken care of" as well. I don't think I need to say anything more than that. They are just trying to relieve themselves of our finances where we tax everyone"
3. "I don't object to the amount of tax or where we tax, I object to who it's coming from," says social reformer Johann Broadside. "I'd like to see everyone have a safe life and decide as to where their ceasers go every time they fill out a tax return. Everyone would feel a lot better about opening their front doors if the mafia wasn't there to extort or kill them. I think you'd see a lot more public money going to education business if we just cut the mafia out of our tax rings."
Edit: you have been rick rolled or something
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