|
| Thread: Special dragons |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
posted August 21, 2005 12:06 AM |
|
|
no sinze the peasents only have speed 3 the azure will wait and then attack, next round fly back, next round wait and then attack....
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
DragonMaster
Known Hero
Master of Dragons
|
|
posted August 21, 2005 03:55 PM |
|
|
Yeah, that would be smart,
but that are not normal circumstances.
____________
Fire is not a dragons only strength, so don't come to close to it's mouth, when he is not flammable.
|
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 09, 2005 03:51 PM |
|
|
Does anyone know how faerie dragons prioritize when they are attacked?
The reson i ask is cause i had to kill 4 faeries with a week 3 fortress army and they all attacked my chaos hydras killing 2 of them. I had brought gnolls and gremlins as fodder and placed my main stacks so they couldnt reach the faeries (planning mass haste) and still they attacked my poor hydras.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted November 09, 2005 05:43 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Does anyone know how faerie dragons prioritize when they are attacked?
The reson i ask is cause i had to kill 4 faeries with a week 3 fortress army and they all attacked my chaos hydras killing 2 of them. I had brought gnolls and gremlins as fodder and placed my main stacks so they couldnt reach the faeries (planning mass haste) and still they attacked my poor hydras.
Kinda makes sense for them to attack the strongest troops first considering the fact spells deal equal damage on everything. The only fodder I can think of to avoid losing hydras is shooters, as AI really likes to kill those.
By the way, Azures will have 49 attack point advantage over peasants, so, they will do exactly 80*3.45 damage (if the armorer/offense thread is correct) and 80*4 if you have expert offense and some attack points advantage on your hero. Say, you do, so azures deal 80*4=320 damage.
Azure waits and attacks a stack of 1320 peasants reduced to 1000 will retal with 310 damage as angelito said. (Even less with armorer)
Azure attacks and does 320 more damage, 680 peasants retal with about 200.
Azure attacks and does 320, 360 peasants retal with about 100.
Azure does 320, 40 peasants retal with what? 10 damage?
Azure with 280 hit points left kills the peasants, s**ts on their corpses and flies away to heal its wounds.
Add armorer, expert shield, cure and some mana and 1 azure will kill just about anything. And if you manage find the regeneration combo, azures will have 1250 hp and will regenerate every turn.
But imho the rust dragons are the best deal possible. A much better deal than any other creature in the game.
|
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 09, 2005 08:04 PM |
|
|
Well im pretty sure faeries dont go for the troops with highest def in generel since in another game they focused on centauer captains.
Another thing is azures are imune to shield and cure so unless you have black orb those spells wont help you.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted November 09, 2005 08:10 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well im pretty sure faeries dont go for the troops with highest def in generel since in another game they focused on centauer captains.
Another thing is azures are imune to shield and cure so unless you have black orb those spells wont help you.
1 more point for the rust dragons!
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted November 09, 2005 11:36 PM |
|
|
One reason to get them is this: If your opponent has his best town up to level seven upgraded, you will not scare him off with your's. which is more intimidating:
A) several gold dragons vs several Chaos Hydras.
OR
B) A few Azure Dragons vs. several Chaos Hydras.
also, it shows you have enough gold to get a powerful God Dragon on your team.
Also, They Look Cool, and would you want to be playing against them?
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 13, 2005 07:23 PM |
|
|
About the Faerie Dragons.
Iīm not quite sure, but it is similar to what Russ said. But i guess they donīt hit the "strongest" unit, but the unit where they can deal the most damage on. This for sure depends on the spell they currently have available. If they cast a magic arrow with 200 damage, they prolly donīt hit the Chaoshydras, coz they wonīt kill any. But they would hit the cents for example, coz they can reduce the stack by 20 and reduce the threat by doing this.
If they can cast lightning bolt or meteor with more than 275 damage, they prolly hit your Chaos.
To bring in shooters (even if low stacks) is a good strategy in my eyes, coz afaik, shooters and level 1 units are the main stacks the AI is trying to hit.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Danielos
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 14, 2005 01:29 PM |
|
|
The new 8th level-units in WoG seems to be almost equal or better than these original dragons despite being much cheaper. Have anyone seen any fights between these units? Are Azure Dragons still the undisputed king?
____________
|
|
GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
|
|
posted November 14, 2005 01:54 PM |
|
|
Quote:
To bring in shooters (even if low stacks) is a good strategy in my eyes, coz afaik, shooters and level 1 units are the main stacks the AI is trying to hit.
I'm sure you are right, Angelito, about "damage dealing" by the Feerie dragons.
About bringing shooters and level 1 units I'm a bit confused: sometimes it happens that first shooter unit hits my Archers because they do enough damage to kill at least one, but usually on this ocasions all other shooters will hit the same Archers (if there isn't another stack of Archers closer to them), even if they are less (crippled) and won't kill another Archer. It also happens that, even if I have Archers, the shooters (all stacks) will hit my Goblins. I sometimes enter the full damage range of shooters with a single level 1 unit, but shooters still hit the farther Archers (or other shooters, usually).
So, as a conclusion, I haven't figured out a "logic" on how the AI creatures make their attack. Have you, anyone?
P.S. Maybe my Q here would better be a thread, dunno. If doesn't already exist one on this topic...
____________
Your worst enemy is... yourself.
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted November 14, 2005 07:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It also happens that, even if I have Archers, the shooters (all stacks) will hit my Goblins.
AI goes for the highest damage, so level 1-s are often a target. It also prefers to shoot units that can reach them in 2 turns, so they like to shoot the goblins because of their relatively high speed when they don't think they can kill any of your faster and stronger units. This is why you'll almost never have your dwarves get shot at even if they are in range.
Quote:
I sometimes enter the full damage range of shooters with a single level 1 unit, but shooters still hit the farther Archers (or other shooters, usually).
If this level 1 unit can not hit the shooters next turn, they will prefer shooting archers because they will deal more damage that way and the level 1 unit isn't an immediate threat to them.
Quote:
So, as a conclusion, I haven't figured out a "logic" on how the AI creatures make their attack. Have you, anyone?
Well, I think I have most of it figured out. You can win quite a lot of fights that could seem impossible otherwise if you know how AI works.
You can find some topics here that discuss AI and you'll find it out the rest if you play a lot. It is also very helpful to make test maps, and try different formations and different strategies vs creature stacks or dwellings that cause you the most problems.
|
|
rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2005 08:35 AM |
|
|
I enjoy playing frozen dragons, though I must admit, I dont use them really, as in buy them from dwells. Occaisionally you get them from Pandoras and if you have free slot in your army, maybe a couple of crystals or azures to fill em would be nice, but the game tends to be over by the time they could have effect.
Azures are a tough fight, immune to all magic. Crystals are highly resistant, fighting about 10 or so in stacks of 2 or 1, a mass slow usually affects about half. Rust are the easiest to kill, although still decent speed. Faeries I hardly ever fight, they are such bastards. If I have a fast troop, tactics and mass haste I might have a try, the only other time would be if I had the red orb.
Maybe biggger guards on the frozen dragons temp would bring them into play a bit more, though it would make for a very long game (it already nearly always lasts into week6)
____________
Myctteakyshd
|
|
GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
|
|
posted November 15, 2005 11:13 AM |
|
|
Thanks, Russ, all that you said makes a lot of sense. But still, I could not figure out why Halflings shot at the starting positioned Goblins (no immediate threat) and not Archers (able to shoot right away). There could be an explanation like this: either shooters (i.e. Archers) are left alone because they made their move already, or because other creatures (level 1) could get more damage and die in higher numbers and pose a lesser threat than if fewer shooters were killed. So the only unknown factor remains how does AI decide which threat is greater: the immediate one from shooters or the more distant higher one from ground troops. Maybe a programmer like Xarfax could shed some light regarding AI's target choices. This could also be when an AI hero decides which enemy hero in sight attacks first (I reckon unactive spells are not taken into account in any circumstances).
____________
Your worst enemy is... yourself.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 15, 2005 03:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
....Azures are a tough fight, immune to all magic...
Only to spells Level 1 - 3.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2005 04:14 PM |
|
|
If you play rampart or dungeon faeries are pretty easy to kill, just bring your dragons and nothing else, another thing is if you have tactics its better to slow them than to haste your own units, slow will mean that your units with speed 8, 9 and 10 will hit before its the dragons turn, as far as i know they cant resist massspells so mass slow should be safe enough. Implosion, chain lightning etc. is on the other hand not the way to go.
About what faeries like to attack: Im still not sure how they act cause in the game i mentioned my hydras were hit 5 times and only 2 died which means they were attacked even though the faeries couldnt kill one every time.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
|
|
posted November 15, 2005 04:32 PM |
|
|
I don't know what criteria they use when deciding what to attack, but I recently had a situation where I had to fight 4 of them and brought 10 Ancient Behemoths, 8 Angels, and 35 orcs as fodder... sure enough, the Faeries went right for the AB's and killed 1 of them before I could take them out. 
____________
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted November 15, 2005 06:16 PM |
|
|
Quote:
But still, I could not figure out why Halflings shot at the starting positioned Goblins (no immediate threat) and not Archers (able to shoot right away). There could be an explanation like this: either shooters (i.e. Archers) are left alone because they made their move already, or because other creatures (level 1) could get more damage and die in higher numbers and pose a lesser threat than if fewer shooters were killed.
That is actually quite strange since the archers are AI's favorite target due to them being a ranged unit with very low defense, and high damage/hit point ratio. I haven't seen many cases when AI shoots something else when I have a significant enough group of archers and there aren't any other shooters. Maybe you didn't have enough archers? Can you tell me approximately how many of which creature you had in the army and what kind of terrain it was so I can do some testing? This sounds rather interesting.
|
|
GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
|
|
posted November 16, 2005 08:31 AM |
|
|
Well, Russ, I think I've had about 6 Archers and like 30 Goblins. The terrain I'm not sure, probably other than grass (I do some testing on random maps to figure out how maps look like and what can be done/gathered in the first week, so have no strong memories about things I do, my focus is not that acute  - didn't know then what happened to me is unusual), but can't remember if I already shot with my Archers or not. Can't check here (workplace) the speed of Halflings and I'm not sure about that.
A Q about Azure Dragons: what is their Fear, what does that?
And about Crystal Dragons: do they have some specialty?
____________
Your worst enemy is... yourself.
|
|
Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
|
|
posted November 16, 2005 08:56 AM |
|
|
Quote:
But still, I could not figure out why Halflings shot at the starting positioned Goblins (no immediate threat) and not Archers (able to shoot right away).
I'll offer what I can, although I don't know that much. In my experience, enemy ranged units will fire at your ranged unit until a certain point (when you lose a large percentage) and then usually switch to attack something else that's a threat or something they can kill a lot of. For example, if the enemy shoots dead 60 or 70 of my 100 Master Gremlins, they might turn on my Magi or melee creatures, who they've previously neglected to shoot at.
I suppose if the Halfling stack was too small to kill at least one of your Archers but strong enough to kill one of your Goblins, then they'd go for the Goblins. I can imagine that happening, at least.
Sorry, I don't have answers to your dragon questions.
-Guitarguy
____________
|
|
GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
|
|
posted November 16, 2005 09:22 AM |
|
|
Yes, that makes sense: if shooters can kill (let's say) 2 Mages they won't shot the remaining 7 Master Gremlins, that's for sure. Probably the same way, instead of killing 1 remaining Archer they'd prefer to take out 10 Goblins. But when you have 6 Archers and 30 Goblins, dunno. And no, my Goblins were not moved yet.
LKru33 said Feeries went for his Ancient Behemoth, which makes sense also: they inflict more damage than ArchAngel, coz of the 80% Defence reduction. In Heroes 2 was as simple as that: AI went for strongest shooter first (can't remember if in damage inflicted or in HP), then strongest Flyer.
So all signs tend to prove AI tries to reduce at most the damage inflicted against it (and not necessarily to take out most HP).
Edit: Funny stuff, GuitarGuy. You edited your post and deleted a question (about my Goblins positioning), so my answer is no longer valid entirely.
____________
Your worst enemy is... yourself.
|
| |
|
|
