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| Thread: Special dragons |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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dvader
Adventuring Hero
Dark Lord of the Sith
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posted November 16, 2005 11:51 AM |
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Edited By: dvader on 16 Nov 2005
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A Q about Azure Dragons: what is their Fear, what does that?
And about Crystal Dragons: do they have some specialty?
To answer the first question; their Fear is the same as the Fear spell cast by the Hideous Mask in H4, it causes the attacking creature to run away; according to the manual for the expansion pack that added them to H3, the Fear is caused by their awesome presence on the battlefield.
To answer the second question; yes, they produce 1 or 2 crystal per day for any army they are currently in.
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"Wipe them out...
All of them."
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Danielos
Hired Hero
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posted November 16, 2005 12:04 PM |
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Has anyone seen any fights between these original awesome Lv 10-dragons (Faire, Rust, Crystal, Azure) and the new Lv 8-creatures in WoG (including Dracolich)? Are they still worth their price compared to for example a Supreme Arch Angel?
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted November 16, 2005 12:16 PM |
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I am not aware of Heroes 4 stuff and rules, but I know in Heroes 2 Hideous Mask is an artifact that keeps wandering creatures away from joining the hero who wears it. In Disciples, on the other hand, Fear stops creatures from attacking and leaves the hero entirely. So what I understand here is that either no wandering creatures would join a hero having Azure Dragons, or there is a chance (in percentages) for the attacker to miss out on its hit (maybe causing 0 damage). I neither tested the first supposition, nor experienced the second, so I'm still confused, Dvader...
About Crystal Dragon is clear, but not "crystal" clear yet. What chances are to produce 1 and what to produce 2 crystals per turn? Is this random?
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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Danielos
Hired Hero
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posted November 16, 2005 12:27 PM |
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GabyStan: Azure Dragons "Fear" ability causes enemy units to occasionally freeze, making them unable to attack that turn. You see this when a unit is covered by a skull saying "HELP ME!"
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted November 16, 2005 02:49 PM |
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Edited By: lkru33 on 16 Nov 2005
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LKru33 said Feeries went for his Ancient Behemoth, which makes sense also: they inflict more damage than ArchAngel, coz of the 80% Defence reduction. In Heroes 2 was as simple as that: AI went for strongest shooter first (can't remember if in damage inflicted or in HP), then strongest Flyer.
So if the Faeries cast 525hp of damage between all 4 of them, why wouldn't they take out 35 orcs (525hp total) or 2 angels (400hp total) instead of only 1 AB (300hp total)? Not like they will last long enough to take out more AB's.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 16, 2005 03:04 PM |
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Perhaps because they donīt "know" which spells they will be able to cast in a row....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted November 16, 2005 03:30 PM |
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Edited By: lkru33 on 16 Nov 2005
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Kind of like the Black Jack dealer not knowing that he will pull a 21 when dealing you 2 Kings... but somehow manages to do so more often than not 
BTW, the losses stick out more because the stakes were higher. Stakes always seem to be much lower when I win 
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So, do you think it would have helped if I brought 100 or so goblins to the fight as opposed to the 35 orcs?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 16, 2005 04:45 PM |
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Itīs just coz u keep them losses vs 21 more in your mind than the wins u get with 20..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted November 16, 2005 05:51 PM |
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Quote:
So, do you think it would have helped if I brought 100 or so goblins to the fight as opposed to the 35 orcs?
Maybe. Orcs, lizards and gogs aren't the best fodder. Too much HP and too little damage. AI will often prefer shooting level 1-s instead.
This may be just a guess, but I think that if the fodder is juuuuust the right size for the AI to kill all of it, it will usually go for it. So, maybe splitting orcs into 2 stacks would do it as well, so that AI will think "w00t! I can pWn that orc stack!" and shoot it. If you have 35 of them, AI might think "nah, too many to kill, I won't bother with orcs and just kill his ancients".
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted November 16, 2005 06:16 PM |
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I'm doing this testing: Mephala has 5 Elves, 5 Dwarves, 19 Goblins, 3 Centaurs, 37 Centaurs, 2 Elves and 2 Centaurs. I attack hoard of Beholders, they are 7 stacks (very confident will kill me), 9 Evil Eyes in the middle. Terrain: grass.
Fight: I defend my 5 Elves, but still Evil Eyes hit THEM (17 dmg), and not the 2 Elves having 1 less Defence. First mistery. I move forward all 3 Centaur stacks as to be in a 1 turn distance, they all hit the 37 Centaurs, except for the one Beholder not in full attack range, who kills my 3 Centaurs (37 dmg). I move the Goblins just in range of 1 Beholder. Turn 3 I move back the remaining Centaurs and bring closer the Goblins and now first Beholder kills one of the 2 Elves (17 dmg), instead of hitting the wounded (13 HP) remaining 4 Elves. Second mistery. Then all Beholder stacks shoot as schedule, but when Dwarves get in range all go for them and leave the distanced Elves and Centaurs alone. Hehe Russ, Dwarves are excelent fodder if they get there soon enough.
Conclusion: with few exceptions, AI fights as assumed above, preventing as much damage as possible by taking "imminence" as a factor when choosing its target.
@Danielos: thanks for the Fear explanation, only the probability pecentage remains to be found out. (Where's Rych with the numbers?  )
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted November 16, 2005 06:30 PM |
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Quote:
Hehe Russ, Dwarves are excelent fodder if they get there soon enough.
hehe, dwarves are da bomb! I once attacked lots of shooters with only dwarves on Ivor because I wanted to do "rich man's portal" to get closer to my tope, but dwarves moraled like crazy and ended up owning the shooters, lol. I had to retreat when there were like 2 shooters and 5 dwarves left.
Btw, you do tests to SOLVE mysteries, not to create them  Try adjusting creature numbers, skills, etc until you see a definite pattern, then post it here.
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted November 16, 2005 07:25 PM |
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Quote:
Btw, you do tests to SOLVE mysteries, not to create them Try adjusting creature numbers, skills, etc until you see a definite pattern, then post it here.
Well, I realized maybe exactly "imminence" is what slipped me. So I said to myself: "this is it, AI shoots the first stack of Elves when enough of each to 'bite' from!" But noo, 'tiz kinda random. They don't even hit the closer one when both out of range, but sometimes diagonally, sometimes straight forward as they like on the moment. I don't have that much time to do serious testing about this, maybe in the (near) future. Till then... ?
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted November 16, 2005 07:35 PM |
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But noo, 'tiz kinda random... Till then... ?
If there's one thing I know almost for certain is that AI in HOMM3 is never random. It could be, but it isn't. If it looks random, then there is something you didn't take into account (but AI did).
Anyways, I'll be waiting for the THEN time as I am too lazy to test it myself
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted November 16, 2005 11:32 PM |
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Quote:
If there's one thing I know almost for certain is that AI in HOMM3 is never random. It could be, but it isn't. If it looks random, then there is something you didn't take into account (but AI did).
Anyways, I'll be waiting for the THEN time as I am too lazy to test it myself
Of course I didn't mean it literally. Of course there are lots of random aspects of the game (no need to give examples, right?), but certainly not during a fight. If we can't see God, for example, that doesn't mean there is no God. But if ocasionally you see NO obvious (obviously, otherwise you'd see it) pattern in AI's behaviour you get confused and express your frustration by a metaphore, for example. When I mentioned Xarfax above I did it because I know he can look into the "wiring" of the game and find out stuff we could never figure out otherwise.
I varied Elves, put them 5-2, 4-3, 3-4, 2-5, but only when in a 1-6 formation Evil Eyes shot the second stack of Elves. This makes sense: damage exceeded 1 Elf's hit points, so they shot where they were more. But why defending the Elves makes no difference, coz of reduced damage (I know defence works for both hand to hand AND ranged attacks)? And why at some point into the fight seems to not count if there're 2 or 3 Elves, wounded or not, closer or farther? Have no idea, but I'm open for explanations.
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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dvader
Adventuring Hero
Dark Lord of the Sith
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posted November 17, 2005 10:41 PM |
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Edited By: dvader on 17 Nov 2005
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GabyStan: To make things "crystal" clear on the Crystal Dragons; they do not produce 1 or 2 per turn like I originally said, they produce three per week. So, hopefully this clears things up for you.
Thanks, Danielos, for helping clarify the fear the Azure Dragons cause to opposing stacks. The fear they use would be more like the Terror that Bone Dragons or Nightmares use in H4.
____________
"Wipe them out...
All of them."
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted November 18, 2005 07:55 AM |
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Quote:
GabyStan: To make things "crystal" clear on the Crystal Dragons; they do not produce 1 or 2 per turn like I originally said, they produce three per week. So, hopefully this clears things up for you.
Thanks, Dvader, it is crystal clear now!
It would be good to know all about these special dragons' immunities. Angelito said Azure Dragons are immune to spells level 1-3, Rych told us Crystal Dragons have partial resistance to Haste (prolly other spells, too), but no numbers al all (percentages). Then, do Rust Dragons have ANY resistance/immunity? How about Faeries?
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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dvader
Adventuring Hero
Dark Lord of the Sith
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posted November 18, 2005 11:13 AM |
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Angelito is correct, Azure Dragons are immune to spells levels 1-3. As far as I can tell Crystal and Rust Dragons are not immune or resistant to any spells. Faerie Dragons have the Magic Mirror spell with which they reflect a spell back at a random opposing creature stack, but other than that I don't know of any spell immunity or resistance.
____________
"Wipe them out...
All of them."
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 18, 2005 03:57 PM |
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Crystal Dragons have the speciality resistance. Iīm not sure, but i thought (like the Fearie Dragons spell skills), everything referring to these dragons is on advanced level. This would mean, the Crystals have 10% resistance. Not sure though...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted November 18, 2005 04:39 PM |
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Quote:
Crystal Dragons have the speciality resistance. Iīm not sure, but i thought (like the Fearie Dragons spell skills), everything referring to these dragons is on advanced level. This would mean, the Crystals have 10% resistance. Not sure though...
Wouldn't it work like dwarves' resist then?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 18, 2005 05:01 PM |
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Why dwarves? They have 20% and 40%.
Faeries cast their spells on advanced secondary skill (air, earth, fire, water) level, thatīs why i thought, Crystals have resistance (skill) also on advanced (10%= level.
But its just a thought...not proven though..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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