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| Thread: Male and Female in H5 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Oakwarrior
Famous Hero
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posted February 07, 2006 06:18 PM |
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Loknar
Adventuring Hero
Missing Links
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posted February 07, 2006 06:58 PM |
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Sonoro
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I just don't see the point of being sexy. A level 7, double axe yelding armor fire breathing giant of the abyss will have what to fear from a woman with litle clothing? Temptation?
Speaking about realism, anything that breeds is a possible victim of temptation. It's realistic that you fight with all available weapons, so why leave out sex? When H3 came out, I actually thought it was a pity that they omitted the succubus when they already had the "infernal" theme. I really like the succubus and, economic reasons aside, it's appropriate that it's naked. (Well, I'd accept an asbestos bikini.)
What I do mind is that there are so few women creatures and that they predominantly fight with sex. Besides hack and slash, magic and sex, you can also fight with cunning, intrigue, poisoning, backstabbing, subversion, and I would also count healing, blessing aso as indirect war techniques. So, even if you only allow the cliché women's weapons that the male mass clientele is willing to accept, H5's spectrum is a bit narrow.
TNTAddict
Quote:
You're a man
Of course, all is connected to sex. But would you prefer the chess queen to be naked just for some additional arousing? Isn't it a bit … offtopic? And don't we also demand realism?
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Oakwarrior
Famous Hero
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posted February 07, 2006 07:06 PM |
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I'm 14 if you didn't know 
And I personally dislike Dungeon for the unclad females, and even more because they... kinda desintegrated the lineup somewhat badly. But I've gotten used to it now.
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TNT_Addict
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
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posted February 07, 2006 07:11 PM |
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And don't we also demand realism?
LOL what game are you talking about? The game with angels devils and the undead?
Realism not in HOMM series, if you want realism play age of empires, civilization and other simulation games.
RPG games are full with fantasy creatures and every each of us has a different idea on how a specific creature should look.
I guess I could have made those female units less cheap but more sexy than the programmers...
I have lots of experience. 
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Loknar
Adventuring Hero
Missing Links
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posted February 07, 2006 07:21 PM |
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Edited by Loknar on 7 Feb 2006
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Oakwarrior
I wasn't aware of that, but I'll still hold thatQuote:
all is connected to sex.
(Starting at age 0) But I very much agree on the lineup.
TNTAddict
Quote:
Realism not in HOMM series
Of course it is. Fiction and realism are not exclusive, and neither is fantasy and realism. If it wasn't why bother about 3D, races and all that stuff?
Needless to say I'd never question your experience. This should be added to the CoC, really. 
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godstuffus
Hired Hero
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posted February 07, 2006 07:27 PM |
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Loknar
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What I do mind is that there are so few women creatures and that they predominantly fight with sex. Besides hack and slash, magic and sex, you can also fight with cunning, intrigue, poisoning, backstabbing, subversion, and I would also count healing, blessing aso as indirect war techniques. So, even if you only allow the cliché women's weapons that the male mass clientele is willing to accept, H5's spectrum is a bit narrow.
That is what I am saying basically. Women should not only be sex symbols. That much more that can be done. Succubus is fine to be fully nude to me. The point is you can have completely nude people running around everywhere that is not the issue. The issue is women's primary role in the games have turned into just seductive sex objects. I am just trying to poke at the fact that males would not be in the sexy role, and they usually every other role on the games. So bring on the sedecutive male speedos, or bring on the fully armored dressed female that can straight up knock the crap out of a lot males.
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TNT_Addict
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
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posted February 07, 2006 07:35 PM |
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So bring on the sedecutive male speedos, or bring on the fully armored dressed female that can straight up knock the crap out of a lot males.
An act like this will dramatically increase the number of gay people in our society.
Lets hope they would not go there for the greater good...
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godstuffus
Hired Hero
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posted February 07, 2006 07:38 PM |
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Why exclude gays? 25% of cowboys were gay but still were tough. What do you think lesbians are playing the game all of time right now? I hope women don't play the game to only be sexy.
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sonoro
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 07, 2006 07:42 PM |
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At TNT_Addict:
one thing is the realm of the fantastic, the other the realm of the fantastic without much logic to it and that is bad.
Granted I said earlier in the fantasy world you can do what you want, but I just can't picture a girl, with nothing more than a couple of pieces of cloth covering her, defeating a 2 meter iron swinging paladin, the same way I can't picture a male guy in the same conditions doing it.
Look at most games: to justify strenght and resiliance most guys come with armor or big weapons. Normally monsters have less than humans (armor mostly) since they are naturaly though.
Leather straps, beautiful skin and lipstick aren't going to put a dent in a shield, just get the poor girl decapitated.
In most aspects (game or not) it actually gets ridiculous: the battling girl has some form of protection (either a futuristic suit or medieval armor) and then it just disapers to show some skin - legs and in between and cleveage and neck... vulnerable areas. What do they chose to protect? With some luck a bit of the belly, and sometimes the arms. Why? Stuff in the arms is sexy; looks like those teasing strip gloves...
C'mon man. Every stuff has its place. Want to see skin, turn on the television, watch wrestling pillow fights or a 90's van damme movie.
Don't mix stuff, that's my thought; there's already a big market on skin and the only goal is just that: to show skin. No confusion, no ambiguity.
But hey, your entitled to your opinion, I'm just stating mine.
At Loknar: your succubus example is diferent. Those are suposed to tempt the flesh.
I agree with more methods in fighting, but in homm there is less space for that. Maybe in other games.
In a homm battle I bet your haven basic troops aren't going to give a second thought whether they should stick a blade in the guts of a sucubi or try to touch her boobies
And I also get bored with the typical magic role females get, but lets face it, skin sells: how can you introduce a girl with larger shoulders than a guy, swinging the blade with the best of them, to a players crew used to 86-60-86 or whatever the magic numbers are (actually that first one in the virtual world is way higher)?
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orbvius
Adventuring Hero
Oblivious
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posted February 08, 2006 02:35 AM |
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Quote:
Loknar
Quote:
What I do mind is that there are so few women creatures and that they predominantly fight with sex. Besides hack and slash, magic and sex, you can also fight with cunning, intrigue, poisoning, backstabbing, subversion, and I would also count healing, blessing aso as indirect war techniques. So, even if you only allow the clich� women's weapons that the male mass clientele is willing to accept, H5's spectrum is a bit narrow.
That is what I am saying basically. Women should not only be sex symbols. That much more that can be done. Succubus is fine to be fully nude to me. The point is you can have completely nude people running around everywhere that is not the issue. The issue is women's primary role in the games have turned into just seductive sex objects. I am just trying to poke at the fact that males would not be in the sexy role, and they usually every other role on the games. So bring on the sedecutive male speedos, or bring on the fully armored dressed female that can straight up knock the crap out of a lot males.
Well said. We should save Haven from too much male so that it does not fall into being a gay town.
A reward of a female knight for you.
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panduwana
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 08, 2006 03:54 AM |
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We should save Haven from too much male...
No, no, their racial special ability is training.
Putting some female units on the lineup will make them need another racial special ability: surgery.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 08, 2006 04:12 AM |
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Quote:
Not that it would considerably lower my excitement for the game, but am I the only one who smells a slight odor of sexism in H5, a hint of pointy-eared machismo?
It's more than a slight odor. And it *does* lower my enthusiasm for the game.
The main problem is the Dungeon. The succubi don't bother me as much. Their nudity is of the creature variety: the animal-like elements of their design -- legs, horns, upside-down wings -- match or overwhelm the human-sexual elements. Also, they are *completely* nude, which is less tantalizing/sexualized than the peek-a-boo costumes of the Dungeon females. It bothered me a lot that the upgrade was called "Succubus Favorite" (you can bet they weren't the "favorite" of other succubi...female rank defined by male favor!). However, that's now been changed for the better. I'd like an incubus unit for true balance, but you can't have it all.
The message of Dungeon? Women in power = evil. The society is a matriarchy, and their good counterparts are the male-dominated Sylvans. Then, all these evil powerful women are sexualized in scanty clothing. The overall theme shades into the medieval model of woman as temptress, female sexuality as the origin of the fall, etc. And, all of this *assumes* that the audience is male, of course.
I know the developers aren't being sexist deliberately; they're on fantasy auto-pilot and haven't given deep thought to the implications of gender politics in the Dungeon. It's based on the D&D drow. So the original sin is someone else's...does that justify compounding it? The HoMM V team just didn't think about it, IMO. After all, they did design a Haven campaign with a female hero. (AFAIK, Isabel favors normal knight armor, not the bikini version.) And scanty clothing appears in other factions than Dungeon: the Rakshasas have a skimpy top until they're upgraded into males  , and the Sprites/Pixies are quite "natural" as well. However, the overtly sexy stuff and certainly the S&M undertones (sexuality made even scarier) are confined to the female-dominated Dungeon.
To Bjorn's point -- attracting female gamers -- I agree with the goal.  The HoMM V Dungeon is a step backwards. Portraying female sexuality as evil is insulting. And as for gamers at large:
godstuffus:
Quote:
Seriously the pictures of the women in their bikini outfits makes want to buy the game less. I feel stupid for buying this garbage, but since every game nearly does this I have no choice if I want to play games.
There's also the question of why? Why can't the developers rely on balanced gameplay, solid story, friendly design, etc.? Good gameplay gets good word-of-mouth & reviews, leading to good sales (in theory). Why are they throwing in gratuitous skin? The HoMM V team is being conservative and emulating HoMM III as much as possible. HoMM III didn't need sex to sell. Why insert sex into this version?
Anyway...I'm hesitant to give money to a game that so obviously violates my values.
[/rant]
____________
 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted February 08, 2006 04:15 AM |
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Am I right or am I just a sick individual?
..both O_o
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panduwana
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 08, 2006 04:32 AM |
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TNT Addict:
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I always make 2 versions. One a male, which I try to make him as scary and powerfull as I can and the other is a female...
Too bad we can have only one avatar here in HC, fortunately the angel is pretty boy...
Oakwarrior:
Quote:
You're a man.
Hey, you can't judge man or not only from sex-freakness, you see that a boy who can code his own driver in x86 assembly is a real man, even if he never have a girlfriend...
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miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted February 08, 2006 04:51 AM |
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You could argue that the dungoen chicks are wearing invisible magic armor. I think its improtant that the games have some women wearing little clothers, not for my entertainment, but for sales. If theres only men, then the perverted men won't be as likely to buy it, Ubi will have less money, and they'll put less money back into the series. But this is to much. Not only will it increase the ESRB ratings, but people watching me play will think I'm a perv. Fortuneatly, the inferno towns sucks. I think that this is a weird thing to have some up in an all "E" game series, and I hope this doesn't make it "M". Why haven't any any women replied in this thread? (unless Khaelo is a female.)
Also, the Rakshasa (woman) upgrades into Rakshasa Rukh (man). I just can't picture that happening, even to magical creatures that live with acrane mages.
____________
I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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panduwana
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 08, 2006 07:13 AM |
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The message of Dungeon? Women in power = evil.
Shadow witch --> shadow matriarch
Shadow wife --> shadow matr-in-law
They rhyme! ... or is it only me?
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I know the developers aren't being sexist deliberately
How do you know? Do you know them personally?
If developers = Nival, means that the sin people... in Ubi?
Sex-changing unit is no problem, IMO, since even in non-magical world (aka real-world) there are species that able to change sex. The problem is, IMO, the choice that female becomes male when upgraded, pointing another sign of machismo in addition to those sexism. In real-world example, Clownfish change sex from male to female with the female as the "upgraded", more powerful sex.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 08, 2006 08:06 AM |
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I would rather see minimal clothed women then minimal clothed men
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 08, 2006 08:33 AM |
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Quote:
Also, the Rakshasa (woman) upgrades into Rakshasa Rukh (man). I just can't picture that happening, even to magical creatures that live with acrane mages.
The genies did it in HoMM III. At least in that case, the species was a shape-changer, established as such in HoMM IV. People still complained. I don't know what the excuse is for the Rakshasa.
Quote:
Quote:
I know the developers aren't being sexist deliberately
How do you know? Do you know them personally?
If developers = Nival, means that the sin people... in Ubi?
Okay, I don't know. I trust. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."...or thoughtlessness.
In my opinion, it's not Ubi, either. I think that no one thought about this at all. Sexism is the status quo in video games, as well as the medieval fantasy tradition of HoMM. As mentioned, there *are* elements in the HoMM V story which go against the male-centeredness of traditional fantasy. But sexist elements remain as well, resulting in a confused overall message. Apparently, the message wasn't the developers' interest. How many video games make social commentary at all? They're just symptoms of the larger culture, passing along values without consideration of what they're saying. Very few game industry people address sexism. And very few consumers seem to question it. It only comes up with regard to the extreme titles, like GTA Vice City and San Andreas (which may well be social commentary; I've never played them). The quiet sexism of games like HoMM goes under the radar.
So, I'm glad to see that someone else spotted it here and cared enough to comment. If enough people say something, maybe the designers will start to think about it.
____________
Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted February 08, 2006 08:40 AM |
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Well, for a start girls do play computer games, especially this game as it includes strategy and not just mindless slaughter (there is a whole other thread on this)
Sexy women in H5 - no problem (no, i am not a lesbian). Why shouldn't we be sexy? Why shouldn't the men be sexy - and they are, we don't need to see them naked to think this.
The issue in this thread seems to be the lack of meaningful strong roles for women in H5. This is a game of magic as well as might - surely a penis is not required for most spells
If the majority of people playing this game are in fact male (which is probably true), then shouldn't we be exposing them to strong females to subvert the negative images of women in most media? Shouldn't they be able to see that sexy women can actually contribute meaningfully. There are women soldiers fighting in armies, saving lives, and nurturing their families
But with all this said... I really don't analyse games this much (I have not been lucky enough to play it yet - dial up) I am more concerned with the abilities of troops (regardless of sex) and the strategy involved.
Jumping off my high horse now
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 08, 2006 08:52 AM |
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Especially the upgrades.
Like in heroes 3, the Angels looked like a bunch of buffed girly men but the Arch Angels?
Who wouldnt want them?
They are buff men 
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