|
|
Lth3
Known Hero
|
posted September 12, 2018 04:51 PM |
|
|
you do not have to limit yoursel to a couple. there are about 100 known popular templates - choose the ones you like
each template guarantees infinite replayability given your prerequisites - size, richness, zone area, guard strength etc.
even after all that you are not satisfied - create your own template, which exactly meets your standards of play. but that could be said to both map and template makers in general
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 12, 2018 07:51 PM |
|
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 12, 2018 09:27 PM |
|
Edited by Ben80 at 21:55, 12 Sep 2018.
|
Lth3 said:
it's just the way it is. when you reach a certain level of expertise in gameplay, you understand that in order to succeed in multiplayer you have to play efficiently ( having 8 heroes, sometimes not building your main town ) - those things that you mention
if you think that this type of play is not heroes, then competitive multiplayer just might not be for you, and that is fine - you are not alone
otherwise you can give me any type of map with any conditions, HotA or not - it does not matter, i will still be on top, because:
1) i can number crunch well, meaning i know what monsters i can defeat from the start of the game, without having to build up army week after week and waste time
2) i can utilize all 8 heroes on map to quickly scavenge and consume the area
3) i know what works and what doesn't on the battlefield, since i constantly play not against AI but players of similar skill as mine
and so matter of fact is that if 2sm4d3 was played on M size game would end on 1st week a lot of the times. the one with the best start would usually rush opp succesfully
while 200% templates like M Balance-200%, M Skirmish-200% are/was quite popular some time ago, albeit not on HotA. but most of the times templates chosen on HotA are by players who are quite new to the whole multiplayer concept and they simply choose the ones they are most familiar/comfortable playing, like Jebus, which is easy to play, but difficult to master
and no, Necro is certainly not any more balanced with Galthran allowed, no matter if it is "extra lean" or "extra fat"
When you reach certain level of expertise you will be able to understand my arguments. At this moment your level is insufficient.
If seriously, before discussing you should carefully read posts on which you reply. Probably you are one of many players who honor his qualification. But you don't understand that qualification of such players is illusive. Who say to you that I can not manage 8 heroes ? I can, if game conditions permit to spend corresponding amount of money.
I have experience to play in 8-heroes style on fat zones, but it is not interested for me to play in such stupid Heroes 3.
Read again my post. Do you understand game conditions I wrote about ?
Let's imagine, you have started game, without money and resources, your respawn zone contains only small amount of money and resources. How you will hire 8 heroes ? And what they will be doing on lean respawn zone ?
If you are doing fast breakthrough to neighboring zone - you may meet computer opponent and such meeting may be unlucky for you, taking into account that your army decreased a little after breakthrough.
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 12:29 PM |
|
Edited by Ben80 at 12:39, 13 Sep 2018.
|
JollyJoker said:
So is Ben80 wrong?
I prefer maps of M and L size, lean or normal (not fat and not very lean). I would say, S and XL maps lesser suitable for good game.
Good game - it is game with many possible strategies and game styles, good both for wizard heroes and warrior heroes, as well as for
"builder"/"warrior"/"explorer" strategy. Conditions at which tournament community usually playing strongly prefer "explorer" strategy.
It is very important will zones be fat or lean. It defines game character to degree comparable with templates itself (may be even more).
For example, now I'm training 2SM4d3 maps against 5 comp. players at 200%, strong monsters,
M size (so, zones are lean).
Possible strategies for first 2 weeks:
1) breakthrough to comp. player at 1 week
2) breakthrough to comp. player at 2 week
3) castle development and preparing for invasions of comp. players into your resp.zone.
However, all 3 strategy can not garantee win in 100% games.
Treasure zones in those experiences do not play major role (unfortunately), but if play against human (humans - red and blue, + 4 comp. players), it will be important, of course.
|
|
Lth3
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 12:34 PM |
|
|
Ben80 said:
Lth3 said:
it's just the way it is. when you reach a certain level of expertise in gameplay, you understand that in order to succeed in multiplayer you have to play efficiently ( having 8 heroes, sometimes not building your main town ) - those things that you mention
if you think that this type of play is not heroes, then competitive multiplayer just might not be for you, and that is fine - you are not alone
otherwise you can give me any type of map with any conditions, HotA or not - it does not matter, i will still be on top, because:
1) i can number crunch well, meaning i know what monsters i can defeat from the start of the game, without having to build up army week after week and waste time
2) i can utilize all 8 heroes on map to quickly scavenge and consume the area
3) i know what works and what doesn't on the battlefield, since i constantly play not against AI but players of similar skill as mine
and so matter of fact is that if 2sm4d3 was played on M size game would end on 1st week a lot of the times. the one with the best start would usually rush opp succesfully
while 200% templates like M Balance-200%, M Skirmish-200% are/was quite popular some time ago, albeit not on HotA. but most of the times templates chosen on HotA are by players who are quite new to the whole multiplayer concept and they simply choose the ones they are most familiar/comfortable playing, like Jebus, which is easy to play, but difficult to master
and no, Necro is certainly not any more balanced with Galthran allowed, no matter if it is "extra lean" or "extra fat"
When you reach certain level of expertise you will be able to understand my arguments. At this moment your level is insufficient.
If seriously, before discussing you should carefully read posts on which you reply. Probably you are one of many players who honor his qualification. But you don't understand that qualification of such players is illusive. Who say to you that I can not manage 8 heroes ? I can, if game conditions permit to spend corresponding amount of money.
I have experience to play in 8-heroes style on fat zones, but it is not interested for me to play in such stupid Heroes 3.
Read again my post. Do you understand game conditions I wrote about ?
Let's imagine, you have started game, without money and resources, your respawn zone contains only small amount of money and resources. How you will hire 8 heroes ? And what they will be doing on lean respawn zone ?
If you are doing fast breakthrough to neighboring zone - you may meet computer opponent and such meeting may be unlucky for you, taking into account that your army decreased a little after breakthrough.
so it all comes down to personal taste for you. sure thing, i don't mind
if you want novelty - you play scenarios. if you want a challenge against other players - you play random maps
as far as your arguments go, i do not see how HotA is a problem for smaller maps with 200% difficulty. Necro has Thant and he is strong even on an S map
so i guess you are free to challenge me with anything you deem is not "stupid heroes" game and i will gladly accept it. it does not matter 160% or 200% difficulty my gameplay does not change - just that it takes more time to get things going - sometimes a whole extra week if area is really poor
Panic template seems very close to what you are describing - harder to break into other zones and starting zone is "lean". on 200% would require careful planning and resource management
on a final note i would like to add that on HotA computer gameplay is improved - but i still seriously do not see how they can be challenge to a human player
then when you break into other zones you usually do not suffer casualties, but even if you do, it is certainly not computers you should be afraid of 
my ICQ is 677012421 if you would like to offer me a game. or PM here on HC, cheers
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 12:40 PM |
|
|
Lth3 said:
my ICQ is 677012421 if you would like to offer me a game. or PM here on HC, cheers
Ok, I write your ICQ.
|
|
Lth3
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 12:47 PM |
|
|
Ben80 said:
JollyJoker said:
So is Ben80 wrong?
I prefer maps of M and L size, lean or normal (not fat and not very lean). I would say, S and XL maps lesser suitable for good game.
Good game - it is game with many possible strategies and game styles, good both for wizard heroes and warrior heroes, as well as for
"builder"/"warrior"/"explorer" strategy. Conditions at which tournament community usually playing strongly prefer "explorer" strategy.
It is very important will zones be fat or lean. It defines game character to degree comparable with templates itself (may be even more).
For example, now I'm training 2SM4d3 maps against 5 comp. players at 200%, strong monsters,
M size (so, zones are lean).
Possible strategies for first 2 weeks:
1) breakthrough to comp. player at 1 week
2) breakthrough to comp. player at 2 week
3) castle development and preparing for invasions of comp. players into your resp.zone.
However, all 3 strategy can not garantee win in 100% games.
Treasure zones in those experiences do not play major role (unfortunately), but if play against human (humans - red and blue, + 4 comp. players), it will be important, of course.
50% Warrior 40% Explorer 10% Builder
you know how that song goes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDvr08sCPOc
i like my computers to be Builders so i can just take away what they built and use it against others. why should i build myself if it's that easy? 
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 08:12 PM |
|
|
Lth3 said:
as far as your arguments go, i do not see how HotA is a problem for smaller maps with 200% difficulty. Necro has Thant and he is strong even on an S map
Necro, of course, always strong. It have many excellent heroes, not only Thant, have easy access to effective spell Animate Dead, have excellent Vampire Lords...
It is hard to put Necro in a difficult position... Still I think one should not weaken Necromancy from 30 to 15%. Because of: 1) Probably strong Necropolis is inherent part of Heroes 3 (by author's idea) 2) still on lean zones Necro can not get huge skeleton armies.
It's unsportsmanlike, of course, but Heroes 3 - is not a sport, as I already wrote. And again, I interpret HotA as effort to transform Heroes 3 into sport. It is interesting direction, I think...
|
|
monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 08:38 PM |
|
Edited by monere at 21:24, 13 Sep 2018.
|
|
Necropolis is pretty strong, even with 15% necromancy at expert level, so I don't really understand the complaints about this needed balance
|
|
phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 08:54 PM |
|
|
Monere, take it easy mate.
There will always be people questioning if applied change is good or if the original version was more reasonable.
Even I do that in regards to my own changes and I changed a lot more than HotA.
Necropolis might actually have become a little weak in HotA, but Galthran should always be banned imo. But I have no words to describe how broken Cloak Of The Undead King is, which is why it only makes Skeleton Warriors in my game.
|
|
monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:06 PM |
|
Edited by monere at 21:07, 13 Sep 2018.
|
phoenix4ever said:
Monere, take it easy mate.
There will always be people questioning if applied change is good or if the original version was more reasonable.
Even I do that in regards to my own changes and I changed a lot more than HotA.
Necropolis might actually have become a little weak in HotA, but Galthran should always be banned imo. But I have no words to describe how broken Cloak Of The Undead King is, which is why it only makes Skeleton Warriors in my game.
Are you... a Necropolis fan by any chance?? *inquisitorily raises eyebrow*
|
|
phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:17 PM |
|
|
I am a fan of ALL factions from Castle to Cove. 
I have strong feelings for some of the underrated towns like Fortress, Inferno and Stronghold though.
|
|
monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:30 PM |
|
|
phoenix4ever said:
I am a fan of ALL factions from Castle to Cove.
I have strong feelings for some of the underrated towns like Fortress, Inferno and Stronghold though.
I was trolling anyway, so I wouldn't have minded if you liked Necropolis above everything else cause it's a popular town.
BUT... I'm really, genuinely, honestly happy that you like underrated towns, cause I'm pretty bored seeing only Castle / Necro and Dungeon all the time. Too few people are playing Inferno / Tower / Fortress... well, too few people are mentioning them, cause I have no statistic available to prove how many people play each town 
Anyway, kudos for liking Fortress / Inferno. They are so coool and I wished I could play Inferno and pull victories with it, but 16 years ago when I used to play this game in multiplayer I would get my ass handed on a plate whenever I played that town. I just can't make use of Inferno's strengths... whatever those are... and my ADs would die so fast.
Oh well... times have chanced and I now win easily when I play Inferno... against the AI lol
|
|
phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:36 PM |
|
|
I don't play competitive multiplayer, I don't think I would find it very fun either.
A lot of people seems to think of Inferno as the worst town, but at least in HotA I find it very strong, easy to build, strong and fast efreet and devils, the devils even give -2 to enemy luck (and yes you can have negative luck in HotA) cerberi with no retaliation and magogs with fireball attack that does'nt have to hit your own units. It also helps I boosted the fire damage spells and Slayer, so Fire Magic is a bit better.
|
|
monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:49 PM |
|
|
phoenix4ever said:
I don't play competitive multiplayer, I don't think I would find it very fun either.
A lot of people seems to think of Inferno as the worst town, but at least in HotA I find it very strong, easy to build, strong and fast efreet and devils, the devils even give -2 to enemy luck (and yes you can have negative luck in HotA) cerberi with no retaliation and magogs with fireball attack that does'nt have to hit your own units. It also helps I boosted the fire damage spells and Slayer, so Fire Magic is a bit better.
I honestly have never played - or even looked at - HotA, so I wouldn't know what to say. But, those changes are pretty good. I mean, ok cerberus has always had no enemy retaliation, but magog's improvement is pretty cool. I've never upgraded gogs when I've played H3 precisely because they hit my own troops, too. M..er f..kers 
Actually, I think I'll check the modifications HotA has made to Inferno, out of curiosity.
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:55 PM |
|
|
phoenix4ever said:
I don't play competitive multiplayer, I don't think I would find it very fun either.
A lot of people seems to think of Inferno as the worst town
I don't believe you would like it, either but Inferno seems weak specially on Multiplayer. I've used some Archdevils as support troops for Miriam in many scenarios and they do wonders. Fast to flee and excellent to kill slow/high life neutral armies like Golems and Ogres, they help a lot on developing scouts. But in the end, with a dozen towns, only ArchAngels and Titans keep their usefulness, unless it's a custom map.
Note that the fact there is no bank spawning devils helps to keep Inferno weak, at this moment all strong towns but Rampart have a way of getting reinforcements from the map, in HotA.
____________
|
|
phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:58 PM |
|
|
I really recommend HotA. (and HD Mod)
There are some things I don't like about it, like some map objects, Cove being overpowered and Conflux being "over-nerfed", the new Spell Research feature, the build order and building cost in towns, the change to the Resistance skill, but luckily most of this is optional and there is a lot of great new content too.
|
|
monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 09:59 PM |
|
|
bloodsucker said:
phoenix4ever said:
I don't play competitive multiplayer, I don't think I would find it very fun either.
A lot of people seems to think of Inferno as the worst town
I don't believe you would like it, either but Inferno seems weak specially on Multiplayer. I've used some Archdevils as support troops for Miriam in many scenarios and they do wonders. Fast to flee and excellent to kill slow/high life neutral armies like Golems and Ogres, they help a lot on developing scouts. But in the end, with a dozen towns, only ArchAngels and Titans keep their usefulness, unless it's a custom map.
Note that the fact there is no bank spawning devils helps to keep Inferno weak, at this moment all strong towns but Rampart have a way of getting reinforcements from the map...
No offense intended, but... if you're waiting for ArchDevils to put on scouts to make them useful... it means that that town is indeed weak as f..k.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 10:12 PM |
|
|
|
What he means is that low stats scouts can level much faster and safer when using arch-devils because no retal ability.
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2018 10:13 PM |
|
|
@Monere No, I use scouts from day one but faster troops make them faster so creatures like Dragonflies help early to mid-game... ArchDevils allow for those scouts to rely less on Grotto to level up.
A simple strategy you will never see in competitive MP, since they wouln't waste half a dozen level 7 units to power-up a scout, while in SP, with the necessity to take every single town and kill every single hero, powerful scouts will help a lot finishing faster.
____________
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
