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| Thread: Best Unit in HOMM3 plus Expansions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted October 29, 2006 02:36 AM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 02:38, 29 Oct 2006.
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I think all of you stuck too much on level 7 units...
There are plenty of good(by that i mean usefull) units in game and they all fit different situations...
For me, the best units would be THE KEY units of every faction...
My list of TOP units (cost effective) would be something like this:
NOTE: This is not best to worst order... its just 10 units i can think of ATM
1. Vampires (Their life drain ability is the killer for that cost)
2. Mighty Gorgons (Ability that is worth its weight in gold)
3. Ancient Behemoths (For only 3000, clearly most cost-effective LV7)
4. Skeletons (If you manage to get a good number of them, they can be gamebreaker)
5. Archangels (Good all around stats rounded up with resurection)
6. Black Dragons (Also very effective winged Rat)
7. Marksman/Grand Elf (VERY cost effective considering 80% battles are vs neutral stacks)
8. Naga Queens (IMHO, they are the key tower units with crazy titan dwelling cost)
9. Sultans (pretty much same as naga for tower... THE unit)
10. Peasants (If opponent sees that you are having peasants in army they sometime show mercy and concede that game)be
that would be it.. so if i must name my TOP unit... it would be
The Blaah machine aka Vampire (preferably Lordly one)
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted October 29, 2006 02:39 AM |
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Edited by william at 02:42, 29 Oct 2006.
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I have mainly been working on the Level 7 unit charts, but when I finish the rest of them, I will include every stats for every creature, probably the upgraded versions, but I wont do the costs of them because I cant make that into a chart, well I might be able to but it may be too hard.
I agree with some of the things you have said btw.
EDIT:
If an opponent sees that you have Peasants in you're army, it is likely that they will keep doing the battle and easily kill them.
But, Peasants are not that bad to tell you the truth, if you have maybe 1000 of them, which is quite easy to get, just put them into a Skeleton Transformer and there you go, 1000 Skeletons at you're command, and as Skeletons being the best level 1 unit in the game, that may be arguable but that's just my opinion, I think that anyone would rather have Skeletons then Peasants.
So that's maybe the only reason why Peasants are good, there may be others but I just cannot think of them at the current time 
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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HoMMage
Hired Hero
Unundead
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posted October 29, 2006 03:41 AM |
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Peasants are funny.
Hey william, 70% of the fun of the game is that [A's creatures' stats] > [B's creatures' stats] does not necessarily make A the winner. Hero stats, artifacts, available spells, secondary skills, total army configuration, etc.
Your graphs are really cute but not relevant in terms of mathematically founded game insights - you should take it to an advanced level.
For example, here's the total HP and total capability of unmodified damage, for fully upgraded one week worth of troups (assuming castle + "dwelling increasers" like Cages, disregarding Necromancy). Note that this doesn't include the attack and defense stats. Double strikes/shots included, but not multi-hex-attacks. Hatred bonuses excluded. 20% chance at death blow included. Obviously, disregarding luck and morale.
When I have some time I'll do this for all 18 types of heroes at level 5, 10, 15 and 20, putting them up against each other. Might be fun.
Also, take a look at this: [url=http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/heroes_of_might_and_magic_iii_analysis.txt]HOMM3 Mathematical analysis[/url]
Castle - Damage 564.5 HP 2245
Rampart - Damage 578 HP 2650
Tower - Damage 528 HP 2420
Inferno - Damage 467.5 HP 2035
Necropolis - Damage 463 HP 2192
Dungeon - Damage 476 HP 2202
Stronghold - Damage 471 HP 2370
Fortress - Damage 492 HP 2290
Conflux - Damage 534 HP 2600
Rather amusing outcome - Rampart, Inferno...
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted October 29, 2006 11:23 AM |
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Edited by vhilhu at 11:59, 29 Oct 2006.
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and if you multiply hydras damage by 8 (max targets), it becomes a ridiculously damaging unit. but normally it doesnt matter because there arent that many units next to each other, so it should be multiplied by 1.5 to get average damage.
so chaos hydra is still the most damaging town-recruitable homm unit.
____________
Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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metos
Known Hero
God of Shadows
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posted October 29, 2006 04:21 PM |
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I love Dracolich the best. The greatest and coolest unit IMHO.
Also i agree with vhilhu, my fav. lvl 7 unit is Chaos Hydra.
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The Legendary God Of Mighty Shadows and Undead
_____________________
Keeper of the balance between evil and good
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted October 29, 2006 04:39 PM |
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I think the Dracoliches are quite boring, and way too good.
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Metonomy
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 30, 2006 11:06 PM |
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As a non-internet player and a person who has beaten all the maps on king with all colors with all races, I personally favor different units for different purposes.
Defensive purposes w/in a castle, dendroids. Their binding ability combined with the moat can do amazing things against walkers. Mighty gorgons are also very handy, especially due to their large defense, health, and amazing ability. Zombies are nice; they normally aren't in a person's army, and therefore you have a nice amount of them you can recruit at a moments notice. They are cheap, good defense, and an amazing amount of hp. Their special is also a nice addition.
Ranged, (not including special units such as sharpshooters and enchangers) I would go with Storm Elementals. Insane damage (with bless) and very well-rounded. Marksmen are nice attackers, but towards the end, your zealots start doing more damage then your marksman, due to their 10 health.
Walkers, the first units that come to mind are dread knights and skeleton warriors. For skeletons, to get them en masse is quick, easy, and cheap. Combinded with the low-costing animate dead spell (thant) they become major killers in the start of the map. Dread knights are very well-rounded and have an amazing special (especially with a luck bonus...) Their down-side is their cost. Minotaur kings with bless comes next; their damage is something to be reckoned with (esp. with bless), they are cheap, and they provide morale. Also depending on the map, wolf raiders come in handy when the enemy has no no retaliation. With such a high attack and damage, and their double-hit, they can take down almost anything. In fact, in my crag hack campaigns (yes, you can actually learn something from them. they are challenging. but, that is if you play it on the hardest level possible. most people don't) my wolf raiders did more damage then my ancient behemoths. Yes.
Flyers, the first that come to mind are vampire lords and royal griffins. Griffins, you get an insane amount of them, especially with the bastion upgrade. Combined with bless, their damage, attack, and defense is something to be reckoned with, not to mention their unlimited retaliation.
Notice how level 7's are not in this group. That is because 1. I play on king... it is not realistic to rush with level 7. 2. after playing on map sizes of all levels and difficulty many, many times, i find that expanding early is the most important, no matter in a big or small map. You get more resources, more experience, and more artifacts. And for everything you gain, your opponent loses. behemoths are the only level 7 one can possibly rush with on king, but, in the beginning, they are too slow. Your lower level units dwindle too fast, not to mention that they slow a hero's movement.
Note: I may be wrong... some units may have been weakened or strengthened for online game-playing.
Continuing with the level 7 discussion, phoenixes are the best. In this situation, quantity outweighs quality. Try six phoenixes (rebirth) against 2 of any level 7 creature. Phoenixes go first.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted November 01, 2006 02:04 PM |
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Quote:
Castle - Damage 564.5 HP 2245
Rampart - Damage 578 HP 2650
Tower - Damage 528 HP 2420
Inferno - Damage 467.5 HP 2035
Necropolis - Damage 463 HP 2192
Dungeon - Damage 476 HP 2202
Stronghold - Damage 471 HP 2370
Fortress - Damage 492 HP 2290
Conflux - Damage 534 HP 2600
This chart is absolute not true!
make the math for yourself.
The absolute unmodified damage of castle is 726 and of rampart is 710.
and what algorithm you use to make a total damage of 564,5 - how its posible to be ,5?
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted November 01, 2006 02:52 PM |
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Quote:
and if you multiply hydras damage by 8 (max targets)...
How will that happen, since the max enemy fodders are 7 )))
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weakofrabbits
Hired Hero
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posted November 01, 2006 03:30 PM |
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Quote:
and if you multiply hydras damage by 8 (max targets), it becomes a ridiculously damaging unit. but normally it doesnt matter because there arent that many units next to each other, so it should be multiplied by 1.5 to get average damage.
so chaos hydra is still the most damaging town-recruitable homm unit.
yes, it is the most damaging unit and it ambushes several units at a time.
Arch angels are the only ones with a steady amount of damage done which makes them a very string unit offensively, however, my favorite unit are the ancient behemoths 
____________
Indeed
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bloucester
Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
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posted November 01, 2006 04:08 PM |
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well, no matter what you say, archangels are the best. they fly, they have great attack and defense skills and are affected by positive spells of all kind. they are a deadly combination with griffins and champions. by the way, champions have the best special in the game - charge (5% damage bonus per hex)
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted November 01, 2006 05:05 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
and if you multiply hydras damage by 8 (max targets)...
How will that happen, since the max enemy fodders are 7 )))
many possibilities.
* war machines
* summoned elementals
* units added with ERM in the middle of battle
of course it will never happen during an ordinary game. but in theory, it would be possible.
____________
Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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HoMMage
Hired Hero
Unundead
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posted November 01, 2006 06:03 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Castle - Damage 564.5 HP 2245
Rampart - Damage 578 HP 2650
Tower - Damage 528 HP 2420
Inferno - Damage 467.5 HP 2035
Necropolis - Damage 463 HP 2192
Dungeon - Damage 476 HP 2202
Stronghold - Damage 471 HP 2370
Fortress - Damage 492 HP 2290
Conflux - Damage 534 HP 2600
This chart is absolute not true!
make the math for yourself.
Make the math? What did you think these figures come from? Lucky guesses?
Quote:
The absolute unmodified damage of castle is 726 and of rampart is 710.
Could you show the calculation please? You sure you're not talking about max damage?
Quote:
and what algorithm you use to make a total damage of 564,5 - how its posible to be ,5?
What I did is take the average damage, multiplied by the amount of creatures you could have per week. Usually, due to castle doubling growth, the amount of creatures will be an even number, so any ,5 will be multiplied to wholes. However, the Griffin Bastion adds 3 Griffins per week, and their average damage is 4,5.
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted November 01, 2006 06:13 PM |
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I just wonder, did you take damage from upgrade or degrade?
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HoMMage
Hired Hero
Unundead
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posted November 01, 2006 07:38 PM |
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Quote:
I just wonder, did you take damage from upgrade or degrade?
Upgrade, as I said already when I posted 
Note that the list doesn't really say anything other than it does. It's just the beginning of something I'll hopefully extend into a new way of rating towns
One thing it does, though, is underline that the "good" towns and Conflux are very powerful by default, while the other towns need more strategy to kick the same amount of, or more ass.
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted November 01, 2006 07:41 PM |
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Yes, but remember that power is not victory. Good abilities is also VERY important
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tenzor
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 01, 2006 11:35 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Castle - Damage 564.5 HP 2245
Rampart - Damage 578 HP 2650
Tower - Damage 528 HP 2420
Inferno - Damage 467.5 HP 2035
Necropolis - Damage 463 HP 2192
Dungeon - Damage 476 HP 2202
Stronghold - Damage 471 HP 2370
Fortress - Damage 492 HP 2290
Conflux - Damage 534 HP 2600
...
Quote:
and what algorithm you use to make a total damage of 564,5 - how its posible to be ,5?
What I did is take the average damage, multiplied by the amount of creatures you could have per week. Usually, due to castle doubling growth, the amount of creatures will be an even number, so any ,5 will be multiplied to wholes. However, the Griffin Bastion adds 3 Griffins per week, and their average damage is 4,5.
I am wondering if you included attack coefficients here - or do u think that damage e.g. 10-15 with attack 1 is the same as 10-15 & attack 20 ??
Also total HP calculation is usefull if you want to check the 'spell damage capacity' of units, but in melee and shooter attacks, you will need to take the defense into account.
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HoMMage
Hired Hero
Unundead
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posted November 02, 2006 12:43 AM |
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Quote:
I am wondering if you included attack coefficients here - or do u think that damage e.g. 10-15 with attack 1 is the same as 10-15 & attack 20 ??
Also total HP calculation is usefull if you want to check the 'spell damage capacity' of units, but in melee and shooter attacks, you will need to take the defense into account.
Come on people, read the darn post! The answer to your wondering is in there.
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