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| Thread: Necropolis power deficiency ! |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... 20 23 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Andmcmuffin2
Hired Hero
In need of Undead Avatar
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posted June 30, 2006 06:36 AM |
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Two Words: Eternal Servitude. 1 Wraith, 2 Archliches, 4 Vamplords, 8 ghosts, 16 plague zombies or 32 skel. archers afterthe battle from what you lost. Plus necromancy.
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The wraith is reserved?!?! NOOOO I'M NOT GOING TO BE PINK AND UNDEAD!
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 05:10 PM |
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Edited by shassz at 18:02, 30 Jun 2006.
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you use a necro icon and yet dont know how to play one.. your an disgrace... you can too use the method they are describing, and with proper moves through out the combat win with no losses... It can and does happen all the time... How you think that the necro army always increases if you have NO losses.
Lol ok. We can have an online game later on but tell me how you beat lets say 20 marksman on the first week without losses ? Actually I think you play in normal mode in which you can win even if you press only next day button on the first 2 weeks..
Here is the deal lets say you attack 4x7 assasins. How do you beat them in a way you dont lose that much creatures that you cant pose a serious threat to other thougher low tier creeps. Think in ghosts skeles and zombies pls..
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 05:19 PM |
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Edited by shassz at 17:36, 30 Jun 2006.
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that's a waste of time!!!!
Try different strategy or hero, maybe? Lvl 2 units are perfectly possible to beat without any loses in 1st week.. same for level 3 units - except hunters and maybe ghosts (if you have a lot of magic, ghosts are easy too)
Y not level 4 already I guess you can kill 10 dark riders on the first week dont you? And beating all tier 1-2 creatures without losses.. How about ranged units? Are they going autoconfused on master level or what?
In the first week you can get the ghosts the zombies and the skeles, and maybe on the 7th day you can build a vampire mansion. The first three arent too fast or though or any special so I just cant think of any strategy with which I can beat creatures without losses(Maybe they shoot the ghosts and they get some superlucky rollout and wont get a single shot).. This is a good one and worth an edit: "if you have a lot of magic". Sure I do I start out with implosion and with 20 sp. Seriously necros get dark and summoning magic in their castle and unless you find a shrine and youre lucky enough to get a destructive spell you wont have the slightest chance to get any damaging spell on the first week..
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 05:20 PM |
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Quote:
Two Words: Eternal Servitude. 1 Wraith, 2 Archliches, 4 Vamplords, 8 ghosts, 16 plague zombies or 32 skel. archers afterthe battle from what you lost. Plus necromancy.
Eternal servitude is crap dont use it..
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Andmcmuffin2
Hired Hero
In need of Undead Avatar
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posted June 30, 2006 05:45 PM |
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hey, I beat 80 marksmen on week 3 with it. All in all, I lost noone- eternal servitude, and gained 36 skel. archers
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The wraith is reserved?!?! NOOOO I'M NOT GOING TO BE PINK AND UNDEAD!
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 05:57 PM |
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Quote:
hey, I beat 80 marksmen on week 3 with it. All in all, I lost noone- eternal servitude, and gained 36 skel. archers
On week 3 lol. Till then you can get hundreds of skele. For me eternal servitude didnt really work out. I got 7 vamplords on level 24 after a battle I lost 12. So its rather useless although It would be great if theyd release some nice statistics, not just "deidre get some bonus to banshee how ability for every experience level".
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Andmcmuffin2
Hired Hero
In need of Undead Avatar
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posted June 30, 2006 05:59 PM |
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I agree with you about Deride. I use Vladimir, Lucrieta, and Kaspar.
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The wraith is reserved?!?! NOOOO I'M NOT GOING TO BE PINK AND UNDEAD!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 06:57 PM |
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shassz: Get kaspar, second hero with skelles, and build the skele dwelling. Upgrade them on day two. There you go. Get mage guild, helps a lot. Take skellies in the corner, surround with zombies, kill walkers. That will give you extra archers to deal with the marksmen with ease. In the battle with ranged creatures, don't heal skellies every turn, do it only when all tent's power can be used (it's not good to waste any single hp point the tent can heal). You'll find this strategy very easy, since skellie archers have suprisingly good initiative. (better than marksmen). Don't forget that spells make it much easier too. even if you lose some zombs.. who cares about them? if you are really afraid, you can use ghosties, AI ALWAYS attacks them and you have tent to ressurect them if needed + 50% cheese. so, quite easy. Don't be afraid, try taking out reasonable ammounts of golems - you'll see that it's no prob.
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Izzachar
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 07:30 PM |
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Edited by Izzachar at 19:36, 30 Jun 2006.
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I really understand how kaspar is good I just think vladimir is better.
For me its not only about raise dead vs firstaid tent.
Valdimir can get haunted mines easely and that adds lots off ghosts to your army.
Vladimir gets raise dead. Sure you will run out off mana but as shassz say you wont be able to get all mines in first week, also ore and wood usually are at right and left side of town so staying in town at the end of your turn the first days usually dont waste that much movement.
After first week the 10-20 mana most often is enough IMO, unless I dont have to face shooters. If I can avoid shooters its good, even if I cant the losses arent so big that having kaspar would justify it. I mean the ghosts lost I get back from the mines I cap. Sure I suffer more losses with valdimir then kaspar week 1 but after week one I dont suffer many losses with any off them.
You just gotta plan vladimirs mana very carefully:
What do you do if you have lost 1-2 vamps and 5 ghosts before killing the last stack with 12 archers, succubi or whatever with your vamps? Well you dont let anyone else attack them and you DONT REZ the ghosts cause hopefully you were smart enough to choose enternal servitude sometime during week 1. So the vamps will rez themselves and the ghosts will get rezzed from eternal servitude. In many battles you dont even need to rez (after week 1 ofc).
If Vladimir can get enlightment, with scholar ensures raised dead to all your heroes. And more mana.
And I dont agree about eternal servitude beeing crap. It serves you well with vladimir saving you lots off mana. Otherwise I could easely see myself loosing a couple of ghosts every battle wich in the long run turns out to be big numbers.
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SuperDave9x19
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 08:13 PM |
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Quote:
Valdimir can get haunted mines easely and that adds lots off ghosts to your army.
another great tidbit i haven't put to good use.
Thanx
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 09:08 PM |
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Quote:
I really understand how kaspar is good I just think vladimir is better.
For me its not only about raise dead vs firstaid tent.
Valdimir can get haunted mines easely and that adds lots off ghosts to your army.
Vladimir gets raise dead. Sure you will run out off mana but as shassz say you wont be able to get all mines in first week, also ore and wood usually are at right and left side of town so staying in town at the end of your turn the first days usually dont waste that much movement.
After first week the 10-20 mana most often is enough IMO, unless I dont have to face shooters. If I can avoid shooters its good, even if I cant the losses arent so big that having kaspar would justify it. I mean the ghosts lost I get back from the mines I cap. Sure I suffer more losses with valdimir then kaspar week 1 but after week one I dont suffer many losses with any off them.
You just gotta plan vladimirs mana very carefully:
What do you do if you have lost 1-2 vamps and 5 ghosts before killing the last stack with 12 archers, succubi or whatever with your vamps? Well you dont let anyone else attack them and you DONT REZ the ghosts cause hopefully you were smart enough to choose enternal servitude sometime during week 1. So the vamps will rez themselves and the ghosts will get rezzed from eternal servitude. In many battles you dont even need to rez (after week 1 ofc).
If Vladimir can get enlightment, with scholar ensures raised dead to all your heroes. And more mana.
And I dont agree about eternal servitude beeing crap. It serves you well with vladimir saving you lots off mana. Otherwise I could easely see myself loosing a couple of ghosts every battle wich in the long run turns out to be big numbers.
Well I dont know how eternal servitude works(since they didnt post any stats on ability desription). For me it was a nonesense it revived liked no units. Manna is not a problem there are at least 3 different abilities with which you can get manna boost(dark magic, sorcery, enlightement).
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 09:14 PM |
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shassz: Get kaspar, second hero with skelles, and build the skele dwelling. Upgrade them on day two. There you go. Get mage guild, helps a lot. Take skellies in the corner, surround with zombies, kill walkers. That will give you extra archers to deal with the marksmen with ease. In the battle with ranged creatures, don't heal skellies every turn, do it only when all tent's power can be used (it's not good to waste any single hp point the tent can heal). You'll find this strategy very easy, since skellie archers have suprisingly good initiative. (better than marksmen). Don't forget that spells make it much easier too. even if you lose some zombs.. who cares about them? if you are really afraid, you can use ghosties, AI ALWAYS attacks them and you have tent to ressurect them if needed + 50% cheese. so, quite easy. Don't be afraid, try taking out reasonable ammounts of golems - you'll see that it's no prob.
Yea maybe youre right with healing tent and Kaspar. With 3*5(if he gets 3 usage at basic level) bonus and the fact that its not taking heroes action is good. Though limited actions and the chance for the nme to destroy it is quite bad though AI only attacks it if it has no chance to win the battle. I might try to play with this Kaspar if he gets like 80 hp/tentusage and a triple use even at basic level then he can be really good. Thx for the tips.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 30, 2006 11:35 PM |
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No prob 
ah yes, if you find kaspar not suiting your playstyle, maybe try the vampire hero too. With the speciality, vamplords become very,VERY good and significantly harder to beat.
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Plexus22
Known Hero
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posted July 03, 2006 05:14 AM |
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Quote:
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hey, I beat 80 marksmen on week 3 with it. All in all, I lost noone- eternal servitude, and gained 36 skel. archers
On week 3 lol. Till then you can get hundreds of skele. For me eternal servitude didnt really work out. I got 7 vamplords on level 24 after a battle I lost 12. So its rather useless although It would be great if theyd release some nice statistics, not just "deidre get some bonus to banshee how ability for every experience level".
Right, you got half your lost units back.....so how do you figure thats useless? What other faction can loose units and get half of them back after the battle?
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Vicheron
Known Hero
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posted July 03, 2006 06:15 AM |
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Didn't someone already figure out the formula for Eternal Servitude? It was something like 10 or 15 hit points/hero level raised.
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 03, 2006 06:20 AM |
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No prob
ah yes, if you find kaspar not suiting your playstyle, maybe try the vampire hero too. With the speciality, vamplords become very,VERY good and significantly harder to beat.
You're talking about Lucrieta, and yes, with her, Vampire Lords rival your Liches in destructive power potential.
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2006 06:34 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
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hey, I beat 80 marksmen on week 3 with it. All in all, I lost noone- eternal servitude, and gained 36 skel. archers
On week 3 lol. Till then you can get hundreds of skele. For me eternal servitude didnt really work out. I got 7 vamplords on level 24 after a battle I lost 12. So its rather useless although It would be great if theyd release some nice statistics, not just "deidre get some bonus to banshee how ability for every experience level".
Right, you got half your lost units back.....so how do you figure thats useless? What other faction can loose units and get half of them back after the battle?
Its not the half its something static and low..
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2XtremeToTake
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 04, 2006 10:51 AM |
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I've actually taken a liking to Necropolis and consider it my favorite faction so far.
While Skeletons have gone from the very best level 1 unit in H2 and H3, to possibly the worst level 1 unit in H5, the numbers you can have of them is endless. Theres an ability (I'm not sure of the name) under the offense skill that increases the minimum and maximum damage by 1, so it increases the base damage of the skeleton from 1-2 to 2-3, cast divine strength on them with an army of about 500 and you have your powerstack right there.
Zombies i find fairly useless except as meat shields for other creatures to use their retailiation on.
Ghosts are a wonderful creature, the incorperal ability is probably one of the best things i've seen so far in H5. Imagine about 6 black dragons going to attack a stack of ghosts, and miss their attack. Or even better, a creature with low initiave like Deep Hydra..They miss their attack and are useless for the next 5 minutes.
Vampires have been nerfed too much and die too easily, their life steal ability is almost useless.
Lich is probably one of the best shooters in the game. Its splash damage is very effective during endgame, esp if enemy shooters are clustered together. And the Archlich's spells are useful as well.
Wraiths are a decent level 6, they lack HP and damage but their special ability is another favorite, if you can seperate them into two stacks (you will have to sacrifice one of your other creatures..preferably zombies) against high level creatures (such as black dragons) keep them in a decent number so they are hard to kill, and then just keep taking them out 1 at a time. Imagine the horror on your opponents face as he sees his expensive black dragons dissappear like nothing.
Bone/Spectral dragons i find about useless, and rarely ever use them except as meat shields.
All in all I find most of my necropolis strategy relying on the Skeletons/Ghosts/Lich.
Oh...I haven't experimented with all the heroes but the one with the First Aid tent special is my favorite so far, upgrade war machine level 3 with it and is really helpful in keeping your units alive and bringing them back from the dead (again!)
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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
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phoenixzs
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 04, 2006 12:40 PM |
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Okay I have read all the posts rougly and I would like to state some points too.all based on multiplayer hotseat experience;
-I think necropolis is weak since it relies on only one troop skeleton archers.
second we look at the troops;
-Skeleton archers:No need to say that they are the back bone of the army with the necromancy.They are good in huge numbers but not that good to stand a fight aganist whole army while your army does nothing.Sometimes they are a bit overpowered though.
-Zombies:They are realy bad.They are probably dead because of their initiative from their previous lives.Simply does nearly nothing.But they are hard though.Only if they had some slowing efect on strike.That would be cool.And they should also be effected by necromancy if they are going to be low level meat shields.
-Specters:They are abit slow and I dont like their damage also.Since they have incorporality maybe they should also ignore targets defense also by chance.
-Wampires:I think they are fine.Only problem with them is that they are normal on standart basis and are normaly targeted by shooters in the first round.Thats not their fault rest of the army should be more powerfull.
-Liches:Their shooting is good.But their size makes them below perfect shooters.They should have some zombie-specter summoning ability from dead stacks.Their aray of spells are rather weak so that they are not used.
-Wraiths:Below average creature.Its no way near tactical as the other level 6th.Its abilty is crap.They simply thought" why dont we give wraith a counter ability to paladin" so harm touch is created.It simply sucks because it kills one creature (it also dispells) and you have be near your target.While this formula would work for cleansining it simply serves your wraith on a golden plate to your enemy.It does not have any agressive ability that can be tactically used like no enemy retaliation or jousting bonus or entangling roots which do change the usage of the creature.ýt is simply a troop that goes hitting.Besides it should somehow balance the weakness of the bone dragon and so be a better 6th level stack.I would say remove the harm touch and give paralyzing attack on strike by chance like heroes 2 cyclops.So victims could be paralyzed with fear and no retaliation can be made for 1 turn including wraiths attack.
-Specteral dragon kay I can understand that necro should have a weak dragon or 7th level unit but what is that dragon.It simply does nothing besides dying.At least in the beta it had incorporality which was indeed overpowered.But taking away the incorporality and giving nothing thats bad.okay you can balance the stats attack defense and damage of the dragon by dividing the power into 3 creatures rather than 2 but still a 7th level creature has to have usefull ability something tactical.Simply cursing attack is very lame.My suggestion is that specteral dragon should have random cursing attack on strike from the list;
-Curse,distrubting ray,weakness,slow
And they should stack
Moralene of the biggest issues in my opinion.Simply a high morale army can rape necromancers with this.Also leadership does not benefit necro creatures but still it is there.Give them a further ability at least partialy decreases enemy morale with their existing morale.Like counter morale,for every 2 morale levels you got you decrease 1 morale from enemy.
Temple of conversion:It can look good on paper but still remember you have to bring back home for conversion which makes you loose precious time.And how many times does neutral creatures join a necromancers club.But if you think of buying them from another castle remember this;you have to build the creature dwelling,you have to pay overprice since necromancers are relatively cheap(converting archangels to specteral dragons for example) you have to transport them back to your castle.Personally I dont have usually the money to buy extra available I barely handle myself.
About raising:Sure raising is good aganist creeps but does it help aganis human players.Usually no enemy will also be casting spells while you raise stuff not to mention he will usually have higher mana.Knowledge is usually a problem for necromancers.Also there also higher attack defense heroes which in that battle surviving is something but whats the use of it if you cant kill anything.But still there are sometimes where raising rules.
Necromancy:I think its a bit lame that necro players have to rely so much on skeletons.Toughness+frenzy+skeleton archers works thats a good strategy but isnt a bit lame to have only one strategy in one castle that depends only on one creature.I feel the whole army is a bit sidekick of skeletons.They are nerfed because skeletons+necromancy is so good and sometimes overpowered and unbalancing.And look at the low levels 2nd and 3rd they have little use also.What I propose is somewhat nerfing the necromancy so that rather that raising %100 skeletons it should raise packages of creatures.Like instead of raising 100 skeleton it should raise
40 skeletons+20zombies+7specters
so that the skeleton archers will be more even with the rest of the army while 2nd and 3rd levels could be used more freely.With the changes above I dont think necromancers would have balance problems or lame strategies to rely on
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 04, 2006 12:59 PM |
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Great post! 
I agree 100 % with you, I think a lot of this has been said before, but you summarize it really well.
I had the problems with Necro ballancing diplayed excellently yesterday, I played the Academy single scenario on Hard difficulty, and did excellently - until their level 26 Necromancer boasting 2000 Skeleton Archers arrived at my castle. I had a good hero and a good army, but there was nothing to do to stop those Skeletons. I used slow and curse, but they still took out all of my units 1 by 1, and once my shooters (that was 350 Master Gremlins and 75 Arch Magi) were dead, it was just a waiting game.
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