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| Thread: Heroes 5: Unique Racial Abilities Info, Poll & Discussion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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DragonLord3000
Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
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posted September 23, 2006 09:56 PM |
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between avenger and gating........training isn't a different ability,it's a overwhelming and surpassing ability which should be modified some how,for example training peasants into footmen!
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hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 23, 2006 10:01 PM |
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yeah, I wrote that some time ago too: Training should be less costly at training footman to priests and priests to cavaliers, but making archers from peasants should be removed.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 24, 2006 04:30 AM |
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If we are talking about favourite, Necromancy is definitely last in my preference list. Why? Simply because it is already present in the last few ver of HOMM. So what is so unique about Necromancy?
I like elemental chains, artificer and avenger, Like I said, if I'm talking about favourite, rather than usefulness.
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5. Avenger
Almost as bad as training. If green dragons can be trained to hate a particular enemy, why can't blackies? If unicorns can, why can't the hydras, the raiders' lizard, or the enslaved minotaurs? In fact, it is the dark elves who have a history based on hatred. If the peace-loving wood elves, pixies, and treants can hate, why can't the humans? the devils? the blood fury?
I think avenger is not so much about "training" the creatures to "hate" a particular creature. Rangers learns about creatures, knows their characteristics, understands their strengths and weaknesses. By specialising to a specific species, this allows them to be able to exploit their knowledge to deal more damage against the creature in concern. That explains why you need to kill at least 2 populations of a creature in order to be able to use it as a favourite enemy. Note: its favourite enemy and not most hated enemy.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 24, 2006 04:42 AM |
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Elemental Chaining
In itself, this is a very interesting ability. Too bad it makes the wizards do not live up to their name, I mean, the term "Wizard" is supposed to be used to refer to somebody who is very very best in doing magic, but now chaining and invocation makes the dark elves out-wizarding the wizards. C'mon, why can't the wizards do that too? Are they noob in practising magic or what? And no, I am not pro-Academy, because their special is not the best either...
While wizards are proficient in magic, they are seldom aggressive in nature. This has been portrayed in the past HOMM very well. Wizards often have extraordinary knowledge in the perks of magic, but seldom excel in spell power if comparing with the warlocks (or sorcerer in previous versions). Warlocks, on the other hand, are specialists in the powers of destruction. This does not make them better "wizards" than wizards, since their proficiency in other schools pales in comparison.
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3. Artificer
While this ability seems to start being unique compared with the previous ones, there's one major objection: why only academy units can use the artifacts? Ordinary-human knights can use artifacts too, even the magic-related ones. Magi are human too. Hey, minotaur is creature made by wizards too. No, genie is wild beast too.
Why are knights unable to use creature artifacts? Well, they do not know how to create them. Why are creatures from other factions unable to use artifacts? This may be an objection. But from the storyline, I'll think that wizards are a selfish lot. They master in the art of creation, but do not wish to share their knowledge with others. This may be a reason why they do not wish to use the artifacts with other factions. (Game wise, I'd think that if they are able to use artifacts with other factions, it'd be overpowered?)
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Ambidext
Adventuring Hero
Wandering knight
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posted September 24, 2006 04:16 PM |
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Though I'm a ranger fannatic, Avenger is almost useless. I rarely use it. Why? You need the Avenger's Guild. 5 wood. Early game, not wise. So I go for skills like Luck, Logistics and Leadership.
My foes all have a head start already. Doesn't make sense. Unique skill, yet need a building to support it! What's more, it needs wood! Every single building other than the town/city/capitol halls and the Stone Ring doesn't require wood. And they still have the cheek to set 15 wood for Hunter's Cabin and 10 wood for Battledance Terrace! The nerve! 
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Demortae
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 24, 2006 04:57 PM |
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#1 Training - by FAAAARRR the most powerful, unbalancingly so, especially because haven's army is quite competent even without it. Even if it weren't marksmen, training to cavaliers would become unbalancing, once your town is set (no angels = more money for training, and a free slot for whichever stack needs to be split) and you've a fair income.
#2 Necromancy - right where it should be, as it is the backbone of the faction.
#3,#4,#5 is a well balanced tie. Gating, Artificer, and Irresistable magic (elemental chains). Nival did a great job with these, they are all extremely useful, but not absolutely necessary to compete with the faction as necromancy has to be. Artificer is often underestimated, even at the beginning, it can make a difference. Once you have a lvl 20ish wizard's knowledge, with enough resources, you have the best stated creature lineup there is. Even better, is that you have the advantage of choosing what gets a boost.
#6 Avenger - A great racial for the end battle,all but useless until then. Unless you want to go back to town every time you need to get the edge on some neutrals (not happening). Fortunately, Sylvan doesn't really need that edge (if they can find some wood that is).
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HereticPriest
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 24, 2006 05:16 PM |
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You are so right. i just noticed the creatable miniartefacts get better when you increase in levels. I mean the single stats actually increase ! for example while with level 18 i created +16% initiative things, the bonus for level 20 was +20% initiative !! that makes artificer a REALLY good endgame skill. Combined with the ability to scrap the artifacts for the full ressources back this is really something. Also i realized by playing more Academy what this consume artifact skill is good for. it might not be a battlechanging thing, but it can allways happen that a artifact improved stack is going to die, so before you loose the artifact you can eat it for mana 
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Kaspare
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 25, 2006 09:20 PM |
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I vote for Artificer.I play with Academy a lot and i understand the ability very clearly!
First the bonus rise as you rise your Knowadge!See the manual there you can find very usefull info.And you have a great chance when you level-up to get knowadge(and with enlighment LOL).
Second these mini-artifacts are very usefull.In early game they give good bonuses but in late game you can make your troops very strong!
The luck and initative bonuses are my favourite!Give them to the Titan and see how he kills every thing he attack!!DOUBLE DAMAGE!!DOUBLE DAMAGE!!the health bonus is for gremlins or golems!Moral and initiative for the mages(more fireball !!)Atack and luck for Ranis(lvl 6 unit i ca'n remember their name)For gargo. go for defence and health!
It is very cool to watch how your troops kill everything and with good hero u can be unstoppable!
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Demortae
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 25, 2006 09:37 PM |
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I like to put -defense per hit on gargs. It gives them a use, especially since they don't rank very high on the priority list, Initiative on pretty much everything, speed on rakshashas, etc. Artificer is a great racial .
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted September 26, 2006 12:34 PM |
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Sure it is a useful skill, if it is used. However, the fact that you need to be in an academy town to make it useful makes it so hard to use. I just started another game using the Academy in the "Rise to Power" map, and had in mind to create some really nice artifacts for the Rashkas. However, before I even had the artificer building built (week 3-4), I am miles away from home, and I am very sure that there is no Academy in the map anymore.
How is your building sequence like to go for the Artificer skill?
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diablo-jr
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2006 04:09 PM |
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I voted for the necromancy just do to the fact that you always have an endless supply of armies now how wouldn't want that.
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good hunting
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Demortae
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2006 04:32 PM |
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Quote:
Sure it is a useful skill, if it is used. However, the fact that you need to be in an academy town to make it useful makes it so hard to use. I just started another game using the Academy in the "Rise to Power" map, and had in mind to create some really nice artifacts for the Rashkas. However, before I even had the artificer building built (week 3-4), I am miles away from home, and I am very sure that there is no Academy in the map anymore.
How is your building sequence like to go for the Artificer skill?
I usually build artificer building around week 3, I'm never "too" far from home by then. That is also about the time I upgrade my mage guild, and head out for conquest in the "far from home". If I'm being rushed, artificer is fairly high on the priority list however. Academy forces are VERY reliant on archmages until tier 6 and 7 have some numbers, defense and especially initiative for them is pivotal in an eary game showdown. Other resources can be used to boost the rest, but mages have the priority for me (mages are split 2-4 stacks of course).
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Ambidext
Adventuring Hero
Wandering knight
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posted September 27, 2006 10:30 AM |
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After that discussion on Avenger, my opinion has changed. Avenger isn't as terrible as most of us think. It's actually quite a good skill.
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Muril
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 22, 2006 05:55 PM |
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Edited by Muril at 17:56, 22 Nov 2006.
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I'll refresh the topic
Well I see some discussion - what I think we should look at while making comments about is not considering a race but rather a faction.
This should end the unclear state about the human who can be theoretically considered a race present in Necropolis(rose from the dead), Academy, Haven or even Inferno (the damned ones).
Necromancy - something that is nearly standard although a bit overpowered for me because of the associated abilities.
Ultimate ability - howl of terror.
Well what isn't totally clear in h5 is morale/luck system. I mean - after everythin i could pick - I never saw heroes (expert leadership of course was present)or creatures with more than morale 5. It means - even in best case for opponent - his army will still have negative morale (-1) except for golems, other undead, minotaurs etc.?
Or it can be stacked like in heroes3? (most was 3 and all above didn't give bonuses but were still count, with this stacking one was able to visit 1-2 warriors tombs with still morale bonus of 3).
Irresistible Magic (Elemental Chains) - as i was playing warlock first time I only thought about this as the skill that cuts off the resists even breaking immunities (this i discovered by accident when my Ice circle killed one black dragon), however later on i saw what is it all about and this elemental chains bonus is better to use to advantage when casting destructive spells rather than the opposite elements creature attacks. I didn't play demo so I cant complain.
Empo spells rox and dark ritual can be also usefull depending on the number of eldritch wells on the map.
Rage of elements - looking at the whole "book" of prerequisites - IMHO it isn't worth it.
Gating - this one is very suiting its fractions - the infernal demons. Unfortunately as some1 said it is way too slow process and the battle usually ends until the gated stacks are ready to kick ass. IMO it's rather an end game skill especially as u develop other abilities that give bonus to it (swarming gate, Gate master etc.) and have quite large army. Ultimate ability - Urgash Call can help but as most abilities - it has many prerequisites and after all - with expert gating, all bonuses the gated stacks come to fight rather quickly.
Training - I never played a game so long for this skill to take a desired effect (any1 can point me out some maps with whole bulk of gold mines? ^^). From theoretical point of view it isn't bad but I don't think telling the necro knocking to the door of ur capital with swarms of skelly archers "wait a bit i must train the peasants to archers and i need some time to collect te needed money" - would take any effect  . And the Unstoppable Charge as the Ultimate ability... well maybe i won't comment much but for me it is a bit more joke - even more skill sacrifices than rage of elements and i must activate it every turn my hero has... Oh and retaliation strike - well i guard the creature - who cares that opponent then will destroy all the unguarded troops :/.
Artificer - well I just started playing the final campaign with the wizard and generally i don't like much this faction - the look of the nearly utopian like town, the most silly looking gargs ever (i prefer those from h1 even ^^), genies with (i dont know why) different spelling, and some cat/lion mutants out of nowhere substituting Nagas... oh and this desert climate...
Oh sorry its skill discussion
I avoided it but my friends love this race for the mages, archmages, titans and the miniartifacts - this skill is actually what drives me to go through this last campaign as it may be interesting and is really unique.
What is really useful are the associated abilities - Magic Mirror (when i first faced a wizard and his army in h5 and cast implo - i nearly killed whole stack of my troops T_T), Mark of the Wizard - although its a bit erratic for me and Omniscience (i didn't try it but it means i can cast expert resurrection with no ligh magic or blind with no dark magir right? ).
Consume artifact - pretty much useless IMO considering the nearly endless mana pools of wizards and erratic mana.
Avenger - the skill that is very dependant on the map, circumstances, and many factors... too many IMO. Much of this was already told by other posting about it (this specific ability i saw in some other - mainly RPG - games where ranger class was present so it is very well suited here). The abilities - I never tried Imbue Arrow or multishot rather choosing Deadeye arrow if i have nothin to do but attack, but what really kicks in is the ultimate ability - nature's luck = double damage every time the creature attacks plus on top of that - elven luck +25%. This IMHO is the most powerful (and a bit overpowered) ultimate ability and is worth of developing.
And one uncertainty (as somehow i didn't pay attention to it) - luck and critical hit stack right? so it when critical triggers on favourite enemy with luck = 4.25x damage?
i must check it...
back to the things that "humans are able to do this", "elves should be able to do that" - i think that we should look into the classes (Knight, Wizard, Ranger, Necromancer, Warlock, Demon Lord).
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knight-champ
Hired Hero
master of knights
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posted November 30, 2007 02:47 AM |
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training best if you use isabel or nicolai in toe.
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knight-master
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted December 03, 2007 01:27 PM |
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Esely(!!!!!) training I smashed my little brother, he had 50 matriarchs , i had 250 palas splited in 2 groups
(Vaery end game)
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Need moar avatars!
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted December 04, 2007 08:39 PM |
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Well don't forget to look at the date on those posts...the game rules have changed.
I believe those posts were written when avenger only allowed you to pick 1 creature at a time, not 3 per skill slot.
Also, Necro and Dungeon creatures in equal numbers...makes zero sense.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 04, 2007 08:54 PM |
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Artificer does make your units stronger so that you don't have to die Gating is not something that can be stopped either nor is it easy to kill the original units by just focusing on them. Dungeon ensures that the opponent will ALWAYS receive damage along with elemental damage that has a pretty good modifier since TotE. It is just as crucial as avenger considering that dungeon depends on magic while avenger may not have results if you do not find key enemy units. It's map dependant, irresistible magic is not.
You obviously have no idea how strong necromancy is. You may not get ten times stronger army but what you will get with motn and almost infinite raising can get necro through the battle. After the incoming barrage of curses Truth be told I'd favour dungeon in this match but don't forget that it is totally helpless vs dark.
It is not a question about who is better but when the battle will take place.
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 06, 2007 12:01 PM |
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Not exactly. 
Actually, if you win, it will help you in the next battle.
Or, to put it differently, in the current battle, you profit from the effect of your racial in all your previous battles.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 06, 2007 03:50 PM |
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My favorite is artificer. Most powerful is necromancy.
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