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| Thread: Heroes 5: Unique Racial Abilities Info, Poll & Discussion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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khx118
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 04, 2009 01:34 PM |
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does gating just summon more monsters for the battle, or is there a catch?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 04, 2009 01:59 PM |
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Both. Reinforcements will take a round to appear and your units delay their action by half a turn.
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KandyKingle
Hired Hero
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posted December 25, 2009 12:58 AM |
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I choose Avenging. I'm actually not a big fan of the Sylvan but I must admit that favored enemy thing is just deadly.
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Kafarey
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2010 09:45 PM |
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I just love the gating. It fits well the inferno faction and wisely used you may save lives using it. Always cool to take the retalation strike on the gated creatures. They worth nothing anyway on short battles.
Havens training ability is otherwise cool but you just need huge ammount of money for it
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Theouinn
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2010 12:23 AM |
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Edited by Theouinn at 00:33, 05 Sep 2010.
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I recently discovered the usefulness of Artificer and how fun it is to experiment with it, giving you the oportunity to find the ultimate combination of stat boosts to optimize your creatures' performance in battle and make up for anything you miss/need that couldn't be gained through skill choices or perks. Clearly an intereseting ability. Too bad it may not be the very first thing you aim for, seeing as you need quite some resources that are better spent elsewhere, thus it doesn't help you very much in say week 1 creeping.
Necromancy is nothing new but I still love it, and the fact that they added dark energy makes it more realistic and more balanced. Doesn't require any resrouces or buildings so it helps you right from the start, raising skeleton arhcers and ghosts (shields) early on gives a real boost to your creeping, add to that raise dead and your ghosts will live to see your hero reach high levels soon enough.
Gating is very interesting as it adds a strategic tool to the battle field, you can choose where to put your gated creatures. Needless to say it's very useful in sieges, but it offers many other alternatives in an open battle as well. On the downside it costs a turn, but on the other hand your army is increased by about 40% (I think) and those gated familiars will suck even more mana out of your opponent. No building or resources needed, however you need to learn how to use it in different situations in order to optimize it's effect. Not as good as it used to be when it comes to creeping, since the enemy creatures ignore them. However it's still very useful as you can either block enemy shooters, box yourself in, use them to block the opponents' path or take the retaliation strike from a powerful creature before trashing it with your "real" units.
Training is not very interesting but still useful, getting 6 extra paladins each week (per castle) doesn't hurt. On the downside you have to visit each castle in order for it to work, but that can be arranged by leveling up a secondary hero. It's expensive for sure but it should be as well, imagine the opportunity of getting 6+ paladins each week without having to worry about your economy. Still, in a late game you should own enough mines to be able to trade resources you no longer need in order to cover most of the costs. Requires no player skill, so anyone can maximize it's use.
Avenger is.. Messy. I've never given it a chance really and I never even build the Avenge's guild. To be quite honest I'm not completely sure how it works, do I have to kill two stacks of creature A, then return to the town and choose it? Or can I choose an enemy creature before leaving the town, kill two stacks and then it activates? option A sounds more reasonable but I never really looked into it. I'm sure it's useful but I've always found other ways of getting along with Sylvan. Doesn't seem to be very helpful in an early game as you need to encounter two stacks of the enemy creature (is it enough to fight one battle consisting of two or more stacks, or do you have to fight two battles against the creature, regardless of the stacks?) before it can be used.
I never understood Elemental Chains/(Irresistable Magic?) very well either, at first I thought it dealed random elemental damage randomly (with a certain percentage of triggering) and didn't understand the opposite-element-thing. It's always nice with some extra damage of course so it sure it useful, but I have some work to do before I can squeeze the most power out of this ability. Not sure about it's creeping capabilities, however it's easy enough to creep with dungeon anyway.
Haven't played the Orcs very much, only during the campaigns, but I've played enough to find Blood Rage pretty cool. Great to soak up damage, but the orcs' problem is Dark magic and not even Blood Rage can help them very much here. The rage is lost pretty quickly once the creature in question is focused, not to mention it takes some time to reach the higher blood rage levels. On the other hand, it's a great skill while playing against factions that don't use mind control spells, where the orcs can roam the battle field and build their rage. Haven't creeped for a long time with them and I don't really remember what shouts there are and how much rage points they give, but I guess extra protection helps in early creeping when you don't want any losses.
And last but not least, the dwarfs' runes. Very interesting ability, though it requires some knowledge in the matter to be used with fullest effect, depending on situation. May not be used too much in the early game (week 1-2) seeing as you rather spend your resources building up necessary buildings (although you could build runic shrine level 1 as you have a good shot at getting rune of charge which is great when creeping shooters) but it sure helps when you can spare some resources and especially when you've built everything you need and can spend all of it on runes. After all, they're not very expensive (I'd gladly give up 1 wood in order to be able to block that horde of crossbowmen with rune of charge on my bears any day) and sure makes up for the "cost". Add to that the perk that gives you a 50% chance of using it for free (Fine rune?) On the downside, each rune can only be used once for each creature, after that you'll need to spend a hero turn to refresh it, this doesn't guarantee you refresh the desired rune either as you may have used different runes during the turn (refresh rune refreshes a random one out of those who have been used, at least if I've understood it correctly). On the other hand, this ability may have been too overpowered in a late game if you can keep on adding boosts of your choice numerous times to your creatures throughout the battle.
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted September 05, 2010 09:05 AM |
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Quote:
I recently discovered the usefulness of Artificer and how fun it is to experiment with it, giving you the oportunity to find the ultimate combination of stat boosts to optimize your creatures' performance in battle and make up for anything you miss/need that couldn't be gained through skill choices or perks. Clearly an intereseting ability. Too bad it may not be the very first thing you aim for, seeing as you need quite some resources that are better spent elsewhere, thus it doesn't help you very much in say week 1 creeping.
Necromancy is nothing new but I still love it, and the fact that they added dark energy makes it more realistic and more balanced. Doesn't require any resrouces or buildings so it helps you right from the start, raising skeleton arhcers and ghosts (shields) early on gives a real boost to your creeping, add to that raise dead and your ghosts will live to see your hero reach high levels soon enough.
Gating is very interesting as it adds a strategic tool to the battle field, you can choose where to put your gated creatures. Needless to say it's very useful in sieges, but it offers many other alternatives in an open battle as well. On the downside it costs a turn, but on the other hand your army is increased by about 40% (I think) and those gated familiars will suck even more mana out of your opponent. No building or resources needed, however you need to learn how to use it in different situations in order to optimize it's effect. Not as good as it used to be when it comes to creeping, since the enemy creatures ignore them. However it's still very useful as you can either block enemy shooters, box yourself in, use them to block the opponents' path or take the retaliation strike from a powerful creature before trashing it with your "real" units.
Training is not very interesting but still useful, getting 6 extra paladins each week (per castle) doesn't hurt. On the downside you have to visit each castle in order for it to work, but that can be arranged by leveling up a secondary hero. It's expensive for sure but it should be as well, imagine the opportunity of getting 6+ paladins each week without having to worry about your economy. Still, in a late game you should own enough mines to be able to trade resources you no longer need in order to cover most of the costs. Requires no player skill, so anyone can maximize it's use.
Avenger is.. Messy. I've never given it a chance really and I never even build the Avenge's guild. To be quite honest I'm not completely sure how it works, do I have to kill two stacks of creature A, then return to the town and choose it? Or can I choose an enemy creature before leaving the town, kill two stacks and then it activates? option A sounds more reasonable but I never really looked into it. I'm sure it's useful but I've always found other ways of getting along with Sylvan. Doesn't seem to be very helpful in an early game as you need to encounter two stacks of the enemy creature (is it enough to fight one battle consisting of two or more stacks, or do you have to fight two battles against the creature, regardless of the stacks?) before it can be used.
I never understood Elemental Chains/(Irresistable Magic?) very well either, at first I thought it dealed random elemental damage randomly (with a certain percentage of triggering) and didn't understand the opposite-element-thing. It's always nice with some extra damage of course so it sure it useful, but I have some work to do before I can squeeze the most power out of this ability. Not sure about it's creeping capabilities, however it's easy enough to creep with dungeon anyway.
Haven't played the Orcs very much, only during the campaigns, but I've played enough to find Blood Rage pretty cool. Great to soak up damage, but the orcs' problem is Dark magic and not even Blood Rage can help them very much here. The rage is lost pretty quickly once the creature in question is focused, not to mention it takes some time to reach the higher blood rage levels. On the other hand, it's a great skill while playing against factions that don't use mind control spells, where the orcs can roam the battle field and build their rage. Haven't creeped for a long time with them and I don't really remember what shouts there are and how much rage points they give, but I guess extra protection helps in early creeping when you don't want any losses.
And last but not least, the dwarfs' runes. Very interesting ability, though it requires some knowledge in the matter to be used with fullest effect, depending on situation. May not be used too much in the early game (week 1-2) seeing as you rather spend your resources building up necessary buildings (although you could build runic shrine level 1 as you have a good shot at getting rune of charge which is great when creeping shooters) but it sure helps when you can spare some resources and especially when you've built everything you need and can spend all of it on runes. After all, they're not very expensive (I'd gladly give up 1 wood in order to be able to block that horde of crossbowmen with rune of charge on my bears any day) and sure makes up for the "cost". Add to that the perk that gives you a 50% chance of using it for free (Fine rune?) On the downside, each rune can only be used once for each creature, after that you'll need to spend a hero turn to refresh it, this doesn't guarantee you refresh the desired rune either as you may have used different runes during the turn (refresh rune refreshes a random one out of those who have been used, at least if I've understood it correctly). On the other hand, this ability may have been too overpowered in a late game if you can keep on adding boosts of your choice numerous times to your creatures throughout the battle.
Sometimes is very uplifting reading what some people write 
1) artificer is not for creeping. with academy you should do easy creeping without it. and it IS winning games... if you know what stats to increase, you beat the opponent easy.
2) necromancy does need buildings. unless you want to be raising 10 skelies per week!
3) gating, is just the best racial. if you haven't seen what it does, you wouldn't know! as long as you know when and how. i am not an expert at this yet but playing inferno i win most of the games.
4) training is not very interesting...? why? because it doesn't have explosions  ? i want to see the opponent's face when you get there week 5-6 with 40+ paladins
5) avenger is incredible. consider it as an extra kind of luck. you firstly must kill the 2 growths and THEN you go back to the city after you have built the proper building and choose it to be in your list. AVENGER + LUCK = SYLVAN wins
6) blood rage can't help them against dark? have you seen 40 chieftains attacking warmongers with frenzy and killing just 2-3? no comments. orcs with a good tactician that know how to use blood rage, jus CAN'T fall.
7) Runes are NOT to be used in creeping! only if you need it to avoid big casualties. in a rich map dwarves rule late game. correctly you stated is the racial that needs the biggest knowledge of how to use it
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Theouinn
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2010 10:43 AM |
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Edited by Theouinn at 10:44, 05 Sep 2010.
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Sometimes is very uplifting reading what some people write
1) artificer is not for creeping. with academy you should do easy creeping without it. and it IS winning games... if you know what stats to increase, you beat the opponent easy.
I don't know whether you respond to what I wrote or if you just speak your mind but I never stated you should use it for creeping, I simply analyzed it's ups and downs when it come to creeping, seeing as it's a crucial part of the game.
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2) necromancy does need buildings. unless you want to be raising 10 skelies per week!
Sure it needs buildings to be optimized, but unlike other racials you don't need any buildings to get it going. You can still raise enough creatures during the first week in order to creep effectively and as you pick up levels you might as well increase your necromancy skill, and that building can wait a couple or days more.
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3) gating, is just the best racial. if you haven't seen what it does, you wouldn't know! as long as you know when and how. i am not an expert at this yet but playing inferno i win most of the games.
It's funny to laborate with it on the battle field for sure and it makes a huge difference in a late game, add to that the knowledge of where to put your creatures and you'll have a big advantage. Again I assume that you're just speaking your mind because I never said gating isn't good.
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4) training is not very interesting...? why? because it doesn't have explosions ? i want to see the opponent's face when you get there week 5-6 with 40+ paladins
Interesting, no. Useful, yes. It's only a matter of opinion, I don't find this racial ability very interesting. You upgrade creatures, that's it. You can't really laborate with it apart from knowing what troops you'd rather use in different situations (which ones to upgrade) but I guess you'd never ever leave the paladins out anyway. It's a great skill when it comes to results and you can totally dominate a late game thanks to it, but it's not I'm excited when I sit in my castle doing it.
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5) avenger is incredible. consider it as an extra kind of luck. you firstly must kill the 2 growths and THEN you go back to the city after you have built the proper building and choose it to be in your list. AVENGER + LUCK = SYLVAN wins
Thanks for clearing that up, I'm going to look into it whenever I play Sylvan (not likely to happen any time soon though, boring faction). However, this racial skill seems to be helpful only to ONE type of faction. What happens if you face multiple types? It's not like you can just switch back and forth. Not a big deal anyway seeing as Sylvan is strong enough without it, but just a thought.
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6) blood rage can't help them against dark? have you seen 40 chieftains attacking warmongers with frenzy and killing just 2-3? no comments. orcs with a good tactician that know how to use blood rage, jus CAN'T fall.
I'm sure you can affect the outcome of the battle well if you're a good tactician, but then again if you're up against an experienced Dark user I find it hard to believe it's an easy fight for the orcs. And by the way, after that blow the blood rage is gone and it's vulnerable for another attack. In an open battle they up their chances a lot as they can rush and eventually make frenzy useless as it might as well end up killing your own units (close fight). But imagine castle sieges against say a wizard with PM and frenzy where a wall is inbetween. Even though you're being sieged, you'd have to rush right away to avoid letting the wizard put mark of the wizard and then perform a double frenzy. And even if you rush you're likely to end up in the doorway, blocking any other exit and woooops, puppet master on that unit and those flying lizards are the only ones capable of leaving your castle, the rest are doomed to slay eachother in there until I say otherwise. Even worse if you're the one doing the sieging, once your catapult is destroyed and your cycploses puppeted it's game over. I might've missed something here though, like I said I haven't played orcs very much but I just can't see it. There's no cleansing, no teleportation, nothing.
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7) Runes are NOT to be used in creeping! only if you need it to avoid big casualties. in a rich map dwarves rule late game. correctly you stated is the racial that needs the biggest knowledge of how to use it
I never said that runes should be used either (like when fighting slow walkers) BUT I'd like to see how you tackle that horde of ranged units guarding that mine you need so badly. Wouldn't it be worth spending one wood in order to get it without losing too much units? Any day if you ask me. That's the only exception though. Otherwise, no runes, I totally agree.
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted September 05, 2010 11:04 AM |
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i am not that much in the mood right now to answer to the whole post but i can say a couple of things.
1) the reason why you don't know some basic things is because you haven't played enough multiplayer probably. campaigns and a stupid AI is not a test.
2) i read somewhere in your post "after having your cyclopes puppeted"... and i have to say... who would? everyone having orcs and facing a dark faction, has at least expert shatter dark
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Theouinn
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2010 03:57 PM |
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i am not that much in the mood right now to answer to the whole post but i can say a couple of things.
1) the reason why you don't know some basic things is because you haven't played enough multiplayer probably. campaigns and a stupid AI is not a test.
Basic things, such as? AI or not, there's still no teleportation or cleansing to use, doesn't matter who is playing. I can agree that orcs may be stronger if played correctly in an open battle, but could you care to explain how I'm wrong in the siege-situation? If you're sieged, the exit can be blocked and you're shut inside. If you're sieging, your catapult can be destroyed and you can't get inside. Frenzy does the rest.
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2) i read somewhere in your post "after having your cyclopes puppeted"... and i have to say... who would? everyone having orcs and facing a dark faction, has at least expert shatter dark
That is absolutely correct and my bad, can't believe I failed to remember Shatter Dark. Still, the cyclopses aren't much of a threat on the wrong side of the wall anyway. Also, you usually don't know what sort of magic faction you're up against right? Apart from Necros of course.
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted September 05, 2010 04:18 PM |
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your last post was a dead-on example of what i said before. you lack experience. i have played more than 300 multiplayer games and i have sieged and been sieged 3 times only. this means that real games don't include attacks in the towns. i can explain the reasons for that if you really care to know.
so, that was my point! you actually play a different kind of game! and i am telling this to everyone that for some reason sticks to single player game. If the game itself has 100% potential, then single player game exploits only the 20% of it
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 05, 2010 04:32 PM |
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Well.. Toh maps are strictly 1v1, mirrors and built with a rich center to promote expansion. Plus town sitters earn the reputation of dishonourable etc etc.
Now if we count a 'normal' map that lacks toh's short-sighted designs it's a whole new world.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted September 05, 2010 04:56 PM |
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nooooooo, you mean that campaigns, default maps, rmg and in general single player gaming is not DA BEST?
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Theouinn
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2010 05:05 PM |
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Thanks for clearing that up, I've never played a single duel and had no clue that whenever people speak about something here it's from a duel point of view. Could be good to know.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 05, 2010 05:07 PM |
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Not duel, I'm referring to the vast majority of tournament of honour maps
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ColdBlast
Hired Hero
The Frozt master
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posted October 16, 2011 03:24 PM |
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I choose Necromancy, because you can make your army grow larger.
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