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| Thread: Ultimate skills - worth getting? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted February 04, 2010 11:14 AM |
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er... it's not really retaliation based because it triggers even if the unit has used up its retaliation [terminology is bit confusing isn't it?]
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted February 04, 2010 04:22 PM |
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Then I have to update it...
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2010 11:07 AM |
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I'm not really an expert on the subject but I always thought that the only time Ultimate Skill comes in the equation was if you meet a memory mentor and have money/resources to spare. Which is more likely to happen in campaigns or single-player scenarios than in a true, serious multiplayer competition.
Honestly I didn't even imagine that some try to get/use ultimates in multiplayer. Seems a mistake, really.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 06, 2010 11:34 AM |
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Pretty much sums it up Momo. In Campains..ultimates can be really really powerful, and in the last missions, easier to get. Then you can strike real fear in the hearts of your enemies. Especially with Ultimate Rage  . They will crash on you like water on a mountain..and then you will crush them with your heel. Oh I mean um...
As for Player vs player..things usually don't last THAT long, and even if it does it seriously handicaps somebody if they try. Not worth it.
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Message received.
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sylvanllewelyn
Hired Hero
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posted February 06, 2010 01:21 PM |
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Even reading many posts, I still don't see a concensus coming together why people are not getting ultimates (multiplayer). This is what I picked up so far.
1) Not reaching level 23-25. So nobody is lucky with witch huts?
2) Reach level 24 but wrong skills. Would adding memory mentors on maps help?
3) Reach level 24, memory mentors exist, but cost too much.
a) Ability not worth troop loss. That means ultimates are just not that awesome, end of story.
b) Required skills too low in probability, resulting in very high expected cost. That's a structural problem with ultimate skill requirements and how skills are offered, no solution.
c) Too many poor supplementary skills. I'm not too sure about that one. Most of them are sub-optimal but palatable.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2010 06:39 PM |
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@sylvanllewelyn:
yeah, mostly a combination of all these factors. It's a lot like Magic The Gathering style of (good) design: you can have your big flashy uber creature, but the price is high enough that it's not worth it unless you can cheat it into play.
In ultimates' case the only way to get around their drawbacks is memory-mentoring them. It's usually a good idea in campaigns as I said, especially because the hero will carry on the abilities.
Such things will also trick bad players into trying to get them ASAP and warp their normal hero developement - another proof of good design by the game developers, I must say this game is excellent and its only downfall in game-design are some alt. upg.
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted February 08, 2010 07:47 AM |
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Some like Arcane Omni or Urgash's Call may be usefull in the campaigns, but as for pvp I don't think you can afford them, since you need to creep fast & proficient, and get the skills who can give you the edge in a direct fight which might happen well before lvl 20, so basically you need to get the skills which can win the game for you, or to survive not take something for the long run, when in fact in the long run you just might get hurt pretty bad.
Besides only a few heroes have an easy acces to getting ulti's, which might not coincide with the heroes you'd like to choose.
So, in general I think it's wise to play to win not to get something that you might not have the time to get, or even if you do it won't be able to help you much since the enemy is way ahead of you by then.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 08, 2010 10:41 AM |
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Quote:
1) Not reaching level 23-25. So nobody is lucky with witch huts?
Witch huts are iffy at best. Down right dangerous at worst. Always check them with a 'throw away' hero first.
Quote:
2) Reach level 24 but wrong skills. Would adding memory mentors on maps help?
not really. Because against GOOD skilled enemies..you won't have time to build the money needed.
Quote:
3) Reach level 24, memory mentors exist, but cost too much.
See above. Against AI...these are a possibility. Against a good HUMAN enemy...? No..nope..nah..nu uh.
Quote:
a) Ability not worth troop loss. That means ultimates are just not that awesome, end of story.
Some are, some are not. It is the skills required to GET them that can be the hassle. There is no 'bad' skill/perk..but there are those that are less useful.
As for b and c..those are .. simplistic observations. There is no 'bad' skills, but deffinately less then useful one. Like taking Destruction for Haven and then getting frozen death. The likelyhood of getting a useful destructive spell for Haven is..slim. Usually would mean defeat also, unless the person you are playing with's skill level is much lower then yours.
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Message received.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 08, 2010 12:43 PM |
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I'm a bit confused, though. Having always played with Tribes of the East, I'm asking myself: what ultimate skill did necromancers have before TotE? Howl of Terror uses banshees, and there were no banshees before TotE.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 08, 2010 02:03 PM |
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Umm they have nothing to do with each other?
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 08, 2010 02:16 PM |
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Quote:
Umm they have nothing to do with each other?
Who?
As a friend explained me, you need banshees to cast Howl (I never got/used Howl myself). Or he had it wrong?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 08, 2010 02:35 PM |
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One is a hero skill the other a unit ability.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 08, 2010 02:43 PM |
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Quote:
One is a hero skill the other a unit ability.
Makes sense. Wonder were here he got that information.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 09, 2010 02:57 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 14:58, 09 Feb 2010.
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I think necromancy was changed in TOE, but banshee howl existed from the start. there was a perk allowing you to raise skeleton archers instead of skeletons, but obviously, with the introduction of dark energy it became useless, so they created mark of the necromancer instead. (or maybe it already existed but as a dark magic perk?)
wait, was he confusing the banshee howl perk (deirdre) with the banshee unit?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 09, 2010 03:16 PM |
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Think so. And yes mark of the necromancer previously known as spirit link used to be in the dark tree - I think it required master of curses and mind.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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