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| Thread: The Real Answer to Hit an Run |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 05, 2001 07:52 PM |
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Ves original post said it best!!!
Well this is tournament play so I would just recommend Ves that you just inact the NO HIT and RUN rule for the remainder of season 3. We have gone 2.5 seasons with it. Would be a good test to know what to do in season 4. The tournament ranking system is designed to calculate talent and as the all knowledgeable Yawacko has pointed out Hit and run involves no talent at all so actually in contrary to what Mocara has said the fact that hit and run is allowed to be used is actually giving false rankings. People with no talent are getting wins they normally would not beable to achieve.
Jinxer
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Maxym
Known Hero
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posted April 05, 2001 08:22 PM |
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Come on not another rule :(
there are other things that need rethinking in TOH, like use of division artifacts, not hit and run. besides i don't think it is used that often, players can agree to the rule before the game, no need to force it on anyone
And i don't think my rankings are reflection of hit and Run use 
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"What is life? Work followed by television."
"1985" Anthony Burgess
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Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted April 05, 2001 08:26 PM |
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Agreed
This is a good Idea, but I'm siding with maxym, I dont play people who I know use this tactic and dont need an Official TOH rule for it (I know the honor council would be overwhelmed with disputes) Just do like I have done in the past, If you want to hit and run me, You just played your last game with me 
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woods
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 05, 2001 09:22 PM |
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no surprise :)
no surprise.... i agree to moccara (and maxym) ...
after 2,5 seasons of t-o-h its the first time that we discuss about making a rule against a game element... 
(i.e. the gremlin rush ( a bug ! because patched) was allowed... no official rule but only used by the real honorables.. )
so its a sad day for a free tournament....
and pls dont think that all supporters of the 'no rules' faction are 'unworthy hit&runners' - the question is :
- do we need (that) rules ? -
i think no... but the times they are changing...
for h4 : i dont think that any 'new' surrendering option will work...
but lets see.... )
-woods
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 05, 2001 10:58 PM |
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I agree with ZUD.
Zud -- I do the same philosphy as you already anyone who hits and runs dont play me anymore.. I was just throwing ideas out there. Besides I am sure HOMM4 they will fix the hit and run issue (3do will that is).
You and I need to play again soon ZUD.
Jinxer
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 06, 2001 01:05 AM |
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The problem with not being able to retreat
Well, ive just glanced down the thread and something important caught my eye. Ive never used hit and run, prolly coz im to stupid to use it, but ive often encountered my opponent in the middle of the map with little or no army compared to his. When that happens, i throw all i can at him, before I retreat, and yes I dont consider that hit and run, and no, nobody would allow me to surrender if I had to ask first. So I dont think its a good idea to edit in schackles on all maps, and I dont think its a good idea either that u must ask permission before u surrender. What I do think is a good idea is to make a gentlemans agreement that u wont hit and run. I always play no rules if I can get away with it, and often gotten the fastest unit in the game, but i always agree to not hit and run my opponent. Why u might ask. The answer is FUN, I play to have fun, and that includes my opponent having a good time aswell. So no artificial rules, even if they are realistic, just some good sportsmanship. Guess thats all folks.
Defreni
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Melissa_X
Adventuring Hero
Tiffany Taylor
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posted April 06, 2001 07:07 AM |
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blubboo
I played u with the no surrender rule and beat u hehe. It was the only hereos3 game i can think of where you lost real fast to me.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 06, 2001 12:11 PM |
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blabla
I don't see the problem. Everyone wants to choose race when starting. Choose same as opponent if you are scared by "hit and run".And I agree with Yawacko: any idiot can use "hit and run" with a book and an archangel. But I have to say nly an idiot will die to it.What stops you (when seeing him coming with a fast unit) to attack him with few units?!Only death ripple can save him then.But its a rare spell, unless he is necro.
And, No My God, Jinxer, stop saying such atrocity. Shackless on each map....
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Era II mods and utilities
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 06, 2001 07:55 PM |
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Chill Salmandre....
It was just an idea.... I was not pleading and begging to have it done. LOL
I dont think anyone is going to take away your gaming way of life..I am sure H&R will live on so you dont gotta worry.
But if 3DO does fix this glitch in HOMM4 then ALOT of people are gonna be hurting. They might actually have to win a fight on there own... DOH!
Peace!
Jinxer
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted April 06, 2001 08:46 PM |
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H&R
I would just like to say that i have played in over 80 online games of H3, and never been hit and run. I play with no rules all the time. So for some of us, this has no effect. I know 80 games is not alot to some of you, but it is quite a few, regardless.
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a920076
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 07, 2001 03:07 AM |
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No H&R in 80 games!!!!??
I had bout 60 games.
I have 6 case of being hit run by enemies
and 2 case of my hit run enemy.
Also, 60 games are including no H&R rules games. (at least more than 10 games?)
Any way , I don't like H&R. (It's kind of bug.. I think) but, this doesn't mean I agree to the idea of no retreat or no surrender rule..
What I am really hoping for in HOMM4, is
just more surrendering cost or
any kind of severe penalty in surrendered Hero ability.
Sorry for my sucking English.
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a920076
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 07, 2001 04:07 AM |
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hiring cost for surrendered or retreat heroes.
In my opinion,
HERO Hiring cost should be differentiated from that of newbie hero.
Cost of hero should include basic hero cost (2,500)
plus++ hero level cost plus artifacts cost.
For examples.
Recruiting cost for Level 11 hero with 5 artifacts.
will be
BASIC COST : 2,500
LEVEL COST : 5,000 (500 gold for each level.)
ARTIFACT COST : 2,500 (500 gold for artifacts)
SUM : 10,000 gold.
Then hit and run tactics can be real TACTICS only
skillful player can play.
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted April 07, 2001 09:25 AM |
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That's the best damned idea I've heard yet.
Are you listening 3do?
-Mocara
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Mr_Shane
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 07, 2001 02:42 PM |
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hit and run rule.
Why not calculate cost of surrender as all troops and artifacts carried being taken over by opponent. Would stop hit and runners dead methinks.
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted April 09, 2001 03:14 PM |
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Hi there all.. the hit and run issue has been a nightmare for many players during so long. personally i dont have any problems with it. i dont use it like a strategy to force my enemy into dirt.... but i have experienced that in some games to even stand a chance you have to make hit and run. i have seen games lost though hit and run where used. i agree with Zud/defreni and maxym in their opponions about this matters. take care all... and dont forget... its just a game
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DSTG
Hired Hero
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posted April 10, 2001 02:18 AM |
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Good idea a920076
I think a's idea is the best. But perhaps one modifacation. Also include a fee for troops that retreat. If we go back to pratical thinking as in real army turns or what have you, it is easy to see how once the hero and creatures are back you would need to rehire the troops just as the hero. Good thoughts but i hope the sugestions dont fall apon deaf ears.
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a920076
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 10, 2001 03:52 PM |
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Fail of market economy
Yes, it's kind a fail of market.
Any additional rule reflects.. I think.., failure of this game.
No Thant or no 4th level hero rule.. means
Thant or some restricted hero is too cheap for his abilities.
No hit and run rules.
that means.. hit and run tactic need more skill or risk or more cost.
I really impressed of the idea of TOH tounament "CASUALTIES OF WAR" which differentiate every heroes' price.
(ie. Thant is 200 gold. while damn Nimbus cost only 50 gold)
Like this way, there will be no need for "NO THANT" rule
anymore. NO Thant rule means Thant is too cheap for his proper value.
Not to mention of surrendering or retreated heroes.
every hero has his cost.
This will surely contribute on this game's "FUN"
At least, NO THIS HERO will disappear. ONLY THIS HERO TACTIC
will be perished.
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted July 14, 2001 10:19 PM |
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i hate rules !
anybody who's ever seen my room in the zone knows i don;t post any rules. only rule i gots is no rules.If someone wants to use thant or soly, go ahead! I've never seen any heroe that cann't be beat.One of my main peeves is when peeps take out red orb from a map. If you spend a whole game building a magic heroe without considering your might abilities too bad for you if an orb shows up. I agree with zud and others that rules really do nothing more then warp this game and help weaker players not to win so much but just feel more secure i guess when they play better players. For don't get me wrong, there isn't a rule in the world that will help you defeat a better player. Givin the same tools wether some are banned or not the better player will usually win out. So Saying, why bother with rules? I would think a weaker player would welcome the chance at getting a one of the fourth lvl heroe's in a random game to help him out against the more skilled player. These rules everyone so blithly apply to this game can cut both ways. I always play random town and hero, but i don't expect others to play that. If anything, i think they get intimidated a bit when i go total random and they don't After saying all that i still am a very vocal opponent of H&R. I am the one who called it an unintended glitch that needed a patch! and like zud if i have my good intentions for a fun and ruleless game abused by someone using H&R i do not play them again. As for HOMM4, i applaud any efforts by 3DO to tighten up the surrender and retreat portions of the game and finally put an end to this damn debate once and for all with the next installment of HOMM !!!
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted July 15, 2001 06:20 PM |
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Hit & Run
I dont play in ToH so many of you dont know me. I signed up immediately when Heroes 3 came out but was turned off when all I could get on the Zone were people who wanted to play
Tower/Solmyr/Gremlin Rush. My not playing in ToH had nothing to do with ToH! I played for years in Ves' Heroes 2 Tourney.
Players gained and lost points playing the Gremmie Rush, the best players won more than they lost because they learned it first and played it best, thats the way it should be! The best players will always win more than they lose with whatever tactic has been recently discovered.
Dont for a minute think that I am a "Plebe"! I am a pretty damn good Heroes player.
But I am turned off now in the Zone just by reading all the "rules" people are playing with. Most of these rules
simply limit the game of Heroes, restrict the rich possibilities within the game to "build some stuff, gather some troops and have a battle". The best players will still win more games this way! Why not play checkers? Hit & Run is a "big" tactic, there are many "small" tactics that a really good player will use to kick your butt with or without rules. You lower rated players are NOT giving yourself a better chance to win by limiting the game, you are actually REDUCING your chances to beat a better player! The simpler you make the game the easier it is for a good player to win. I would rather have my opponent play hit & run than have him/her find a "Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment" easily taken.
Remember that European Royalty decided that the Bow & Arrow was an unfair weapon in warfare and banned it for awhile. It was a bug! A glitch!! Those fancy Knights also thought that the Flail was unfair! A peasant could cripple a Knight!
Unfair! Programming error.
I dont know what the answer is but it is not adding rules to
the game. Heroes is slowing down in the Zone, more chat than games. If you want more games play "all random, no rulez". Get out of your favorite town/hero/rules rut, play what you find in a random town tavern. The fun will return
and you will learn to be a better Heroes player! The best players can play with anything..... and sometimes lose.
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 15, 2001 08:55 PM |
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agreed craig hack
But the question is, what strange NEW rules will players start firing up in heroes4?
No heroes in battle (creatures only)
No rescuing heroes
No stronghold town rule
No dragons
hehe, just making these up but who knows what will happen eh?
TOH will remain no rules in homm4 -- like in homm3.
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